Whither psychedelia?

[Hyperreal]

This thread is about the psychedelic movement as it is today. What's wrong with it? What form should it take? How can it be spread? What should its aims be? Where should it go from here? Where exactly is it now?


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Personally, I think the modern psychedelic movement is paralyzed by a sort of Oedipal inferiority complex towards the psychedelic movement of the 60s and early 70s. We need to leave that behind. The hippes are gone, they lost. It's time to stop looking back and start looking forward. Leary is dead.


One question we have to ask ourselves is: what distinguishes us from the hippies? What insights do we have that they lacked? What makes us better?


The 60s psychedelic movement was based on LSD. To spread a psychedelic movement, one must spread the drugs. That's the obvious move for the movement now; to spread some drug, some sacrament. It needs to be dirt-cheap if not free, and it needs to be legal. That's the reason the 60s movement was killed so easily: all that needed to be done was to pass a law against LSD and that's that, the movement dies. We need to learn from that fatal mistake. Barring a liberaliztion of drug laws along the British or Dutch model, any drug being spread needs to have a secure legal foothold, through precedent (like mushrooms in Britain) or exeption from banning on the grounds of religion (like peyote) or medical grounds (likeDXM in America)


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I'm sure you have thoughts on the subject. Constructive suggestions only, please; cynicism or contempt will not be welcomed.

[mariecurie]

As Daniel Quinn's masterpiece Ishmael points out, the problem with the
hippies was that they didn't have an answer. They knew exactly what was
wrong with society, but they had no concrete solutions about how to fix
society.



I am close friends with Rick Doblin, the founder of MAPS. I don't know
if you're familiar with MAPS, or if other people on this forum are, but
everyone who has any interest in spirituality and psychedelics should
do some research about this organization. Rick Doblin funds a large
number of studies about MDMA and marijuana and a decent number of
studies about LSD, mushrooms, peyote, etc.



His vision is to set up clinics where people can go and use
psychedelics in safe environments. They can thus work through personal
problems without endangering themselves physically or mentally. Rick
Doblin is a big MDMA user and he's told me about experiences he's had
on methylaminorex and LSD, but he remains very clean as far as the law
goes. For his studies, he pays often ten times or more of the street
value of chemicals so that he can get them from the government and be
backed in his studies. The problem is that almost all of his money ends
up going to court cases against the government because they try to
disallow all of his studies. He gives presentations on the myths about
MDMA, etc.



http://www.maps.org



If I'm not allowed to post that link, please edit it out because I feel
the rest of this post is worthwhile. I don't want to break any rules on
this forum, I just feel that MAPS is a worthwhile organization that
everyone should know about.



MAPS also deals with setting up "psychedelic emergency services" at
large scale events like Burning Man so that people having crises can
get help.



Rick Doblin is the man who we can rally behind to get this movement off
the ground. Science is almost to the point where we can prove the
effects of drugs are not what the government claims they are...we just
need supporters and time.

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[Hyperreal]

Hmmm... interesting. If MAPS is successful, there will be psychedelics being used in psychotherapy, addiction treatment etc. This will have at least two consequences. 1) Society will be forced to recognize the legitimacy and power of these drugs. 2) The drugs will be manufactured and sold legitimately for medical purposes.These drugs will inevitably find their way onto the streets for recreational use, and they'll be pure.


From there, the vision of a 'psychedelic society' is a lot closer.

[Hyperreal]

The substance


The sacrament must be legal, interesting and varied in its effects, and it must be very cheap if not free. I spoke of the need for the drug to have a secure legal foothold. Obviously, legal issues vary from country to country, but I think the essential thing is that it's legal in the US, because the rest of the world follows America's cultural lead, so that's where the movement needs to hit. Unfortunately, America had particularly restrictive drug laws. You guys know more about American drug laws than I do, what drug would you suggest? Luckily, the second most culturally influential nation in the world - Britain - is liberalizing its drug laws all the time. Mushrooms and peyote can be bought and sold there freely.


MDMA-related -MDMA is the best drug we have that the fist wave didn't have, but it's illegal. I think it might well become legal for use in psychotherapy soon. This depends partly on how the research currently being conducted by MAPS goes. Also, publicity is necessary. This is something wecan do: write to your newspapers, your politicians, go on the radio, publish a magazine. If it's being manufactured legitimately for that purpose, it'll find it's way onto the street in pure form. Barring that, a substitute (probably methylone) would be good.


Ketamine - The advantage of this is that it's nothing like LSD. I think it's essential that the movement has something new, and is not merely trying to duplicate the 60s. However, it's legal status is far too tenuous, and the problems of addiction and neurotoxicity can't be ignored.


Fly Agaric - It's legal worldwide and it's very cheap. I haven't tried it myself; are the effects appropriately mind-expanding?


Research chemicals - Again, the legality is unstable, and any drug is liable to be banned as soon as it becomes popular, which is what killed the first wave - a mistake we need to learn from. A possible exception is DPT, which I don't think will be banned in America, because of the Temple of TrueInner Light. Unfortunately it's already illegal in Britain.


Peruvian Torch/ San Pedro - I think this is probably the best bet. Mescaline is,by all accounts, one of the best drugs around. (I'm ashamed to say I haven't yet tried it, but I hope to rectify that within a few weeks). Cacti can be grown cheaply by anyone and there's no argument that can be put forward against them on the grounds of physical or mental health. Their legality is not guaranteed, but if a ban were attempted, it could be fought in court. The only problem, and it's a minor one, is that they grow so slowly. But with the right grafting techniques and dopamine injections,one cactuscan yield a dose of mescaline every six months, which isn't that bad.


Something new - New drugs are being synthesized all the time. The difuranyl phenethylamines look extremely promising. Again, we'd need some legal loophole or precedent to stop it from being banned.


The leader


I think having a single leader would actually weaken the movement. The hippies didn't have a clear-cut leader; it was a toss-up between Kesey and Leary, plus there were all these other figures like McKenna, Krassner, Alpert etc. etc. with various followings and ideas. What I'm saying is that leadership is needed, but it's vital that the movement not become monolithic.


The music


What new musical movements are around now that could be assimilated into the movement? The 'definite article' thing is not really psychedelic and far too retrospective. It's essential that it sound nothing like anything that's gone before. I suppose you could give some talented musicians some new drugs and let them turn it into music. Anyone up for sending free samples of 2C-B to rock stars?


The name


Once the movement gets started, a name will probably be assigned to it and catch on. I mean, the hippies were so-called because they were 'hip', right? Who the hell came up with that one?


----------------------------


I think a good idea would be to follow Ken Kesey's example: set up a commune or a clique with a cool name and conduct the fight though that group.

[mariecurie]

I think Thom Yorke should be the musical leader; unfortunately he doesn't trip. Or so he says...



The Flaming Lips' CD "Yoshimi Battles The Pink Robots" is an amazing
album that could not be inspired by psychedelics any more than it is.
The song "Do You Realize??" has been a big part of my life ever since I
heard it for the first time on my first acid trip.




Do You Realize - that you have the most beautiful face


Do You Realize - we're floating in space -


Do You Realize - that happiness makes you cry


Do You Realize - that everyone you know someday will die





And instead of saying all of your goodbyes - let them know


You realize that life goes fast


It's hard to make the good things last


You realize the sun don'-go down


It's just an illusion caused by the world spinning round







I think that the question of "which drug?" is a very tough one. There
is too much controversy about MDMA brain damage, although I know it's
stupid. The only compounds I feel are worthwhile for a movement would
be LSD, mushrooms, and mescaline. I don't know if it would be horrible
to have LSD be the center drug again because look how far it got us
last time! RCs just pale in comparison to these traditional sacraments.

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[Zandorf]

for the music



check out



need new body

venetian snares

hawkwind

clouddead

polyphonic spree

of montreal



and perhaps



ekoostik hookah

the recipe



most of these acts are already tuned into the cause.



i think peruvian torch and san pedro are not the best choice because in
their legal forms consumption is wildly unpleasant and difficult. so
instead you're going to have people processing it into moe palatable
forms which will be illegal.



probably the best option is just a steadily changing palette of RC's. I say this because in Tom Wolfe's Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test</span>
is says that by 1969 the scene had grown but really stagnated. Would it
be so bad if there were constantly new drugs available? it would help
the movement grow and evolve with the times and changing legal statuses.


Edited by: Zandorf

[yuval]

ok here's my 2 cents:


Israelis, drug binges in India and Acid


pot became popular in israel just a few years ago. its popularity was probably always in the rise, but usage in high-school age kids became an issue maybe 10 years ago. bongs are now household items in israel. we are bong nation. i have maybe 5 of them at home from my smoking days... i don't even smoke any more!


israelis flock to india in amazingly large quantities after they leave their military service, for extended drug binges of 4-12 months. we are talking 60,000 visas to india a year! on a population of 4.5 million jewish israelis. their large numbers enable the development of reputation systems. you can see distinct trends form.


i've been to india every year for the past 4 years. i saw the israeli crowd mature from E to acid with regard to hard substance dominance. the current fashion for israelis in parvati valley (state of himachal pradesh, not far from ex-hippy capital of the 70s manali) is to have their own liquid acid bottle. indians involved in tourism (guest house and restaurant employees) follow suit.


israel has become the leading country in the world in trance music. trance music helps bring out the synesthesia (sense mixup) effect in acid. the leading trance community website is www.isratrance.com.it's international but run from israel.check out the party review forum. we have 5-10 large trance parties all over the country every weekend.


so what i'm getting at is that we have here a nation of pretty hardcore types, who have the freedom of 3rd world india to experiment in, who don't know enough about the 60s to be intimidated and who have their own music scene. a week ago i was in a 3 day trance music festival on the sea of galillee where most of 2500 people took acid.


we're talking very serious psychedelia here people ) take note!

[Iggypoop]

yuval.... That sounds funking amazing! Think i know where i'm going on my much deserved holiday this year....


I'm thinking the sacrament should be the bromo-dragonfly, it just sounds so damn cool... What about we create our own religion....


"The church of the Trancendental Metamorphosis".... anyone?

[yuval]

here's the review of the 3-day trance music festival. note that it's the premier trance music event in israel:


and while the scene is israeli, the location i'd pick for a psychedelic vacation is india. law-less places beat civilization in vibe. not to mention natural beauty. check out the village of tosh in parvati valley, state of himachal pradesh - 15 long hours by bus from delhi to bhuntar, then a few hours to barshani atthe end of the valley, then an hour of trekking.


it's himalayas (2400ms) so april is the earliest you can come. party season is april to july-august, unless the police makes problems. tourist season is april to october.


up until the israelis started coming in masses, there used to be a multi-national - mainly british tho, and many italians too- hippy scene in manali. as late as 1997 there were parties with a couple of thousand europeans on season. then in 1998-1999 the europeans stopped coming - israelis drove them away, very young people 21-22yo doing mainly E. the israeli crowd grew up in size and age and drug habits, and the manali-parvati scene peaked again in 2003, with an israeli 3-day 2000 people trance party near manali, but since then police is giving parties there some hassle. since guest houses try to cater to the wishes of the tourists, some have bought decent sound systems. the trend these days is toward guest house parties - 20 people, a mixer and a bottle of acid in the mountains. police can't bust those.


the village of tosh in parvati is entirely unique. great community in that they're friendly and totally anti-establishment.everyone smokes inc. old people, some of the young people into trance and acid, and they're a sort of outlaw community. in mid-2001 5 policemen came there to confiscate charas (indian hash). one of them pushed a women and the crowd beat the shit out of them. 100 policemen sieged the village for a week, then 10 men and 10 women gave themselves in for this - and were later acquitted on appeal in shimla (himachal pradesh capital) high court.


tosh is in an amazing location with daily rainbows in monsoon time (july-august). everybody who's been there is nuts about it. 2001 was the first year they let tourists in. there were just 3-4 rooms to let in the entire village. then they made a party. 200 israelis came. after the party people slept all along the main street of the village. then the sound system was brought back to the guest house it belonged to (run by a cool guy name lila). the party spontaniously re-started in the guest house. the village was stunned. guest houses started sprouting all over. in october 2001 the entire village burned down when a gas baloon exploded. everyone re-built their houses as guest houses and the rest is history.

[Solidly-here]

Different effects for different folks.


Just like the Med Marijuana debate, the psychedelic-fortified population is divided into 2 segments: The people who are just wanting to get diverted from life (recreational use), and the people who use it for the strength to face life more directly.


I fall into the latter category. I use it as spiritual medicine ... as the power to enjoy my life, as it is ... to accept my many limitations, and to be happy for all of the things I can do.


I'm also happy with with anyone who is able to use it specifically for fun (after all, life should be fun). But, I can see why Big Brother is upset (after all, they assume that life is not supposed to be fun), a pity. But, with Canada now releasing Pharmaceutical Pot (their newest prescription drug), and England poised to do the same, it is going to create a rift in the tattered DEA line: All (DEA-imposed) illegal drugs have NO medical value.


This will (I envision) open the market to at least some psychedelics. For instance (for many years now), psychiatrists have been begging for MDMA to be moved to Schedule II (prescribable); they used it for a while, and it helped change many patients' lives (then, theyhad their magic medicine banned). Soon, one country will legalize it for doctors to use in a clinical setting. Later, many glowing reports will flow out, glorifying its healing effects. Another country follows suit, more good results ...


Before I ventured on my new journey (opening up my mind and heart), I mostly dwelled on what I needed to have in order to make my life (finally) OK. I knew (absolutely) that if I could just find the correct list of needed items, that my life would magically change, and I would be happy. So, I waited for the outside world to change, so I could be changed. I waited a long time (but unfortunately the world decided not to change enough). Hmm.


In my years of experimention and exploration, I have found that I have the power to have a fulfilling life now, instead of waiting (especially during the hours ofmy Trips). Suddenly I realized that the world HAD changed (whew! it's about time).


I attempt (at least some days) to have an hour a day of something meaningful ... whether it be, spending some golden time with a close friend, re-reading some of my favorite books, opening myself up to the magic of a movie on the big screen, (fill in the blank).


On these days, I prepare myself for this golden time, and tell me that this is going to be the best time I'm going to have in a while, so enjoy it. This fills the pre-time with expecting to have a good time (this is expecially easy on a Trip day). I create amood that I would like to feel during this time. I write it down. While I am experiencing this time, I may look at my notes: Oh yeah! This is what I want to be feeling. (I do this, because no matter how much I plan, during that time I forget how good this time is.)


With this gentle reminder, I have helped to create a much more fun time for myself. Then, later, I can look back (maybe 50 times) at that golden time; this creates a few seconds (or minutes, if I'm lucky) of bliss. I sprinkle this into my day, and it helps change my attitude for the better.

[yuval]

writes Dennis-The:


On these days, I prepare myself for this golden time, and tell me that this is going to be the best time I'm going to have in a while, so enjoy it. This fills the pre-time with expecting to have a good time (this is expecially easy on a Trip day). I create amood that I would like to feel during this time. I write it down. While I am experiencing this time, I may look at my notes: Oh yeah! This is what I want to be feeling. (I do this, because no matter how much I plan, during that time I forget how good this time is.)


that's very insipiring!


one note on the legalize issue. for years i've been justifying the establishment approach so kids will be protected. these days i tend to think of drugs as a lifestyle choice. in a mature society (which many countries are far from, but whatever) drugs won't be abused so much and the freedom to change your consciousness is worth it.


i have a friend who is a very very good lawyer. all he does is strategize large cases. i asked him about legalization, what's his take on where it stands. he said:


1. short term we're losing. an attempt to legalize marijuana in the states was aborted by the federal governemnt, indicating it is in its jursdiction.


2. mid term and long term we're winning. for years the netherlands was the only place in the western world you could do drugs legally. but now there's an attrition in drug rules everywhere, so this is going to change. every country that will fully legalize drugs, like the netherlands,will create a shift in the entire strategic situation. and it looks as if it's going to happen.

[mariecurie]

I have reconsidered based on where I've been in recent months and I
think that 4-ho-mipt could be a psychedelic to unite behind. It is
every bit the equal of mushrooms and it is still legal. A true treat to
taste.

[paradies]

Originally Posted by mariecurie

I have reconsidered based on where I've been in recent months and I think that 4-ho-mipt could be a psychedelic to unite behind. It is every bit the equal of mushrooms and it is still legal. A true treat to taste.

Why try to have the psychedelic movement revolve around any single substance? Why have any leaders, per se? Taking psychedelics is a very spiritual and mystical experience...and that is always an individual experience, to be sure. When you try to direct how the movement should proceed, or what to take or who to follow, I think you create a big mistake. You plant the seeds to another dead-end street.


Some would say the hippies in the '60's didn't have the answers but knew the problems that had to be dealt with. You can't have AN answer...one size doesn't fit all! Never has. One thing that happens, among us that are entheogenists and psychedelicists is that even though each trip is unique to the individual, obvious common realities show themselves...namely things like environmental responsibility, respect for others and life and a move away from aggression and towards dialogue and discussion.


These things are so basic, they really don't need saying. By taking a psychedelic, you have a wonderful experience in remembering who you really are...not what society or expectations dictate. The more folks take entheogens and psychedelics, the more the "vibe" of harmony and respect and acceptance proliferates. That is how to do it...just keep on spreading the vibe and keep thinking the thoughts that are in line with your true self.


Always strive to remember who you really are.Edited by: paradies

[korky8097]

the hippies werent all about 1 drug, it was very mainly LSD, but they
also had coke, weed, shrooms, ect. LSD was the biggest by
far. Problem is that these RC's have a price tag that cant be
ignored. With lsd it costs only fractions of a penny to produce a
hit if made in the right quantities. Anyone consider a natural
source that extractions could be run from, like dmt or something?

[paradies]

Originally Posted by korky8097

the hippies werent all about 1 drug, it was very mainly LSD, but they also had coke, weed, shrooms, ect. LSD was the biggest by far. Problem is that these RC's have a price tag that cant be ignored. With lsd it costs only fractions of a penny to produce a hit if made in the right quantities. Anyone consider a natural source that extractions could be run from, like dmt or something?

You really have to put things in historical perspective...really. First, the "hippies" were reacting to many events at the time...First, the USA had come out of McCarthyism, then there was the Viet Nam War and the Civil Rights Movement...all happening at the same time. On top of that, the corporations had seemingly no restrictions on the crap they could put in the water and air and soil. So there was also a very strong Environmental Movement. AND, there was the pill...so people could have sex with little worry. There wasn't HIV or Herpes yet...a shot of penicillin could take care of anything you could get.


So, for a bunch of reasons happening simultaneously, young people were rebelling against the authority of government and industry.


And also, LSD came into the mix...and it was legal at first. Things were really groovy until things started getting ugly. One problem was that organized crime started to move in and take control of drug sales. Organized crime really went a long way in getting folkson cocaine and heroin. Both are not psychedelics, but both get folkshooked...needing more...steady sales. The "original" psychedelic movement really was all about "tuning in, turning on and dropping out." So, the consciousness behind it was about a way to change your understanding of how things are; and maybe seeing how things could be different. The energy behind it was about "freedom" and thats why LSD was so cheap and prevelent. It was about realizing you're a sentient being that can choose for yourself...not having to follow the scriptures of corporations, governments and religions. It was about being real and self actualized vs. being a robot stuck in a system. It was about NOT being controlled. Sure, money was made, but LSD was reallycheap for a reason...it was about making it easy to change yourconsciousness, if you chose to do so. Organized crime has a different consciousness...making money and getting rid of anyone who is a threat or competition...getting people addicted and thus controlled.


OK, you can say how naive hippies were because they didn't have the answers, but it was really ALL new. It was total experimentation with LSD, sex, music and rock concerts and a new paradigm in thinking...meaning: caring about the environment (Pollution Controls), rebelling against a government that forced you to go to war (Viet Nam), rebelling against civil injustice (Civil Rights), rebelling against sexual injustice (Women's Movement).


It was a crazy ass time...upheaval was happening at all levels all at the same time. I'll tell you...it seemed like everything was falling apart, and at the same time something new and marvelous was trying to start. It was really exciting! Some people were freaking out while others, including me, were so incredibly happy and enthusiastic about the possible changes that could happen. But who could have the answers? It was all new, uncharted territory.


Now, you can't have a psychedelic movement...not really. People have to decide to experience mind altering things themselves...at their own volition. You can't just say DMT, or Shrooms, or Mescalinewould be the best way. Its all good. And you can't do anything but let people come to psychedelics on their own. It all has to be an attraction...there can't be an assertion. Only if more and more people seek to think and see things differently will this thing grow. But it is about consciousness...not taking psychedelics. Its about feeling free, optimistic and allowing people to choose for themselves vs. feeling scared and the need to control howpeople think and what they can do.


You can not hear the answer until you ask the question.





Edited by: paradies