Effects - DMT after effects

[Silentscream]

Swim recently began experimenting with extracted DMT.

He has smoked DMT several times now, and reaches the breakthrough stage consistantly.

However since smoking DMT, which swim finds to be an incredible and beautiful experience, swim has found his trips on LSD to have become extremely visual, to the point where it is overwhelming - this being on even the lowest doses of LSD. The visuals are no longer the visuals swim experienced when he began taking LSD, but have a distinct DMT-likeness to them.
The visuals are also accompanied by an overwhelming loss of control of swims thoughts, which makes enjoying LSD at a party or festival extremely difficult, whereas if taking LSD at home for spiritual exploration, this loss of control is very helpful as swim feels stuck between this reality and the DMT reality.

Swim is unsure whether to put this down to it being due to his mind being opened to the DMT reality, or whether the DMT simply stays in the brain after smoking, and is somehow reactivated when he uses LSD.

Have any other swimmers experienced this after effect of DMT?

[Synesthesiac]

SWIM tends to feel perfectly back to normal after just 30 mins, which is faster than any other substance I know of (sometimes theres a pleasant afterglow with high doses). I would find it highly unlikely that DMT would stay in your system after smoking, its renound for its quick absorption into your blood once produced, thus why the hit is so quick, and it has no problems at all getting through the Blood-brain barrier like some other drugs take time to do.

It is possible, though this is only speculation, that frequent use of dmt may alter the chemistry in your pineal gland in some way that exacerbates (or depletes) DMT production under certain circumstances. Much like frequent MDMA use changes the uptake of serotonin receptors and can cause serotonin receptors to retreat into the dendrite of serotonin nerve cells. DMT is only produced in living tissues, and the place where its thought to be created in humans is in the pineal gland, right in the centre if the brain. And since its absorbed nearly instantly into the blood stream, the person would have to be alive to test this hypothesis. And the pineal gland isn't the easiest area of the brain to get to when the subject is alive. Thus why this is all still just hypothesis.

The pineal gland contains the necessary chemicals to make DMT, it possesses the highest levels of serotonin anywhere in the body, and serotonin is a crucial precursor for pineal melatonin. The pineal also has the ability to convert serotonin to tryptamine, a critical step in DMT formation. The unique enzymes that convert serotonin, melatonin, or tryptamine into psychedelic compounds also are present in extraordinarily high concentrations in the pineal, and due to this the pineal gland is the most reasonable place for DMT formation to occur.

I would suggest trying melatonin supplements a couple of days before to see if that makes any difference, melatonin is crucial in the DMT making process, and may make some kind of change to the buzz. When I used to take it (melatonin) to sleep I had really vivid dreams, which is probably brought on by some interaction with melatonin and endogenous DMT in my brain (some people think DMT is one of the vital psychoactives that makes you dream in the first place). Other than that, maybe some 5-htp would make a difference (precursor to serotonin), but I dont think that DMT use would deplete serotonin, so this shouldn't have much effect, even though it is found in very high concentrations in the pineal. Both of them are legal and relatively harmless. Thats about all thats known to be invloved in DMT processes, melatonin and seratonin.

And SWIM used to get completely different effects when smoking dope in the weeks after using BZP, lots of drugs when mixed (even over long periods if brain chemistry has been altered significantly) can cause very different effects.


Though I would say that DMT is not a drug to be used regularly, not much at all is known about how it effects the brain on a neurochemical basis, and not much at all is known about DMT abuse, but I doubt it has a good long term effect.

Save the elves for special occasions

Reputation Comments on this post:

Excellent detailed reply. Many thanks!

[Silentscream]

Originally Posted by Synesthesiac

SWIM tends to feel perfectly back to normal after just 30 mins, which is faster than any other substance I know of (sometimes theres a pleasant afterglow with high doses). I would find it highly unlikely that DMT would stay in your system after smoking, its renound for its quick absorption into your blood once produced, thus why the hit is so quick, and it has no problems at all getting through the Blood-brain barrier like some other drugs take time to do.

It is possible, though this is only speculation, that frequent use of dmt may alter the chemistry in your pineal gland in some way that exacerbates (or depletes) DMT production under certain circumstances. Much like frequent MDMA use changes the uptake of serotonin receptors and can cause serotonin receptors to retreat into the dendrite of serotonin nerve cells. DMT is only produced in living tissues, and the place where its thought to be created in humans is in the pineal gland, right in the centre if the brain. And since its absorbed nearly instantly into the blood stream, the person would have to be alive to test this hypothesis. And the pineal gland isn't the easiest area of the brain to get to when the subject is alive. Thus why this is all still just hypothesis.

The pineal gland contains the necessary chemicals to make DMT, it possesses the highest levels of serotonin anywhere in the body, and serotonin is a crucial precursor for pineal melatonin. The pineal also has the ability to convert serotonin to tryptamine, a critical step in DMT formation. The unique enzymes that convert serotonin, melatonin, or tryptamine into psychedelic compounds also are present in extraordinarily high concentrations in the pineal, and due to this the pineal gland is the most reasonable place for DMT formation to occur.

I would suggest trying melatonin supplements a couple of days before to see if that makes any difference, melatonin is crucial in the DMT making process, and may make some kind of change to the buzz. When I used to take it (melatonin) to sleep I had really vivid dreams, which is probably brought on by some interaction with melatonin and endogenous DMT in my brain (some people think DMT is one of the vital psychoactives that makes you dream in the first place). Other than that, maybe some 5-htp would make a difference (precursor to serotonin), but I dont think that DMT use would deplete serotonin, so this shouldn't have much effect, even though it is found in very high concentrations in the pineal. Both of them are legal and relatively harmless. Thats about all thats known to be invloved in DMT processes, melatonin and seratonin.

And SWIM used to get completely different effects when smoking dope in the weeks after using BZP, lots of drugs when mixed (even over long periods if brain chemistry has been altered significantly) can cause very different effects.


Though I would say that DMT is not a drug to be used regularly, not much at all is known about how it effects the brain on a neurochemical basis, and not much at all is known about DMT abuse, but I doubt it has a good long term effect.

Save the elves for special occasions

Thanks for such a detailed reply. I will pass this information on to the person in question. Swim thinks his visits to hyperspace will have to be few and far between!

[Panthers007]

Might be something similar to what happens to people who take LSD, and then smoke pot. After the LSD, many note (and some complain or are afraid of damage) that pot makes them feel like they are tripping again. While they are not tripping again as in the LSD has crawled out of some hole in their brains - they have been conditioned to notice the more psychedelic aspects of the pot. Perhaps the DMT is playing a similar role here.

Another example is goat meat and goat cheese (bear with me). If one eats goat cheese, they remark it's a nice and creamy cheese (Chevron) similar to Brie or Camembert. If the person then eats goat meat, they say it's sort of strong. Maybe a bit gamey - but not bad. But then, a week later, they have some more goat cheese: "My God! This tastes like GOAT!!" And it does. But it's still cheese - the person is now conditioned to know the flavor of a goat!

[DJ Dougpound]

Swim would say the exact opposite. When he drops a couple tabs its almost as if he wants the great visuals he's looking for he has to smoke some dmt. The lsd always seems to make the dmt way stronger even in small doses as compared to if swiy weren't tripping. It could always be a physcological effect like panthers stated. Try using smaller doses or just smoke the dmt by itself and see if it has the same effect.

[Mutil]

synesthesiac, your post seems to imply that the brain is supplying the DMT for the trip--it's not. MDMA causes the release of seratonin, but the DMT is introduced directly from the smoke.

[Synesthesiac]

Originally Posted by Mutil

synesthesiac, your post seems to imply that the brain is supplying the DMT for the trip--it's not. MDMA causes the release of seratonin, but the DMT is introduced directly from the smoke.

Didn't mean to imply that if i did. I was talking about endogenous dmt, which does use serotonin in the process which supposedly creates dmt. But this wouldn't deplete your serotonin, only a tiny bit is needed. And this is all in the realm of speculation anyway without definitive details of DMTs function on a neurochemical basis. And yeah, its completely different to MDMA.

Another user posted this:

Originally Posted by sickboy420

SWIM's friend has smoked DMT most nights of the week for at least a year, and counting. And seems to be A-ok, healthy, sane, and no tolerance.

So maybe DMT really doesn't alter anything on a long term basis. SWIM still doesn't use it on a regular basis, something with that strong effect on your mind doesn't seem like a good drug to use on a continual basis.

Its probably just best to give DMT a rest for while and see if your LSD trips return to normal. Taking more drugs to try and change the effects of other drugs should be tried after this really, if you want to experiment with getting different effects. But I would be curious to see the effects of melatonin suppliments on DMT experiences, it certainly makes dreams more vivid, so might make DMT experiences, or return your LSD experience back to how it was before. SWIM will investigate.

[magic clown]

I know a man who has jumped on DMT somewhere approaching a thousand times. I also know that he has never ever felt in the slightest like his brain chemistry has ever been alterd. He has used DMT estensively in conjunction with all manner of other psychoactive drug combinations. He has also used it under varying mental state conditions. From being happy and relaxed to just finding out his girlfriend was fucking some one else. Still he never once has suspected any form of brain chemistry alteration.

He only has one slight, lingering reservation about his heavy use of DMT. That is if DMT is left in the pineal gland waiting to take the trauma out of his death (not a proven thing) maybe it wont work for him. He has been there so many times, he will know exactly whats happening. The wonderous sparkle will have gone from that final moment.

[yosepi]

having done well over a thousand trips now in the last 3 years, SWIM has had periods of daily use lasting weeks and periods of abstinence lasting 4 months since he first experienced DMT.

he would say that during periods of daily use, he learned a lot about the darker avenues of his mind and it prepared him for death. he very much believes in the others and their recognition of his transcendence on many occasions.

these transcendental journeys have ranged from ecstasy to total darkness, visions of another time and of other beings, he would say that the majority of his DMT experiences were experienced alone, in complete darkness and quiet - and allowed for complete immersion in the spiritual realm.

he admits that at one point he might have been addicted to the journeys, not so much to find ecstasy but to face the deepest darkest places of the universe only to return strengthened, although shaken up.

he has abused DMT as a deity - he understands this, he nevertheless respects DMT and will place immense importance and reverence for his return journey, but he is relentless in his determination to find clarity of mind in this "awakened realm" or "real world."

the after effects weigh far less on your biochemistry than it does on your soul. he can say with confidence though that he has come back from visionary psychosis, shamanistic possessions, he knows that he has attracted deathly dark energy into his life but he sees this as a great challenge to develop his soul and to prepare for the inevitable.

his acuteness and connection with friends and strangers remain intact, and his objective awareness is for the time being serving him well, thanks to DMT.

only a weak mind can lose touch with the physical world, a true explorer can transcend physical and spiritual realms with no delusions of their being the same.

peace

[shanesmith7]

swim has a theory that using exogenous dmt causes the pineal to release endegonous with less force than a full blown adrenaline rush (the kind experienced at ones death hour) and seeing as glutamine, like adrenaline is an excitatory neurotransmitter, the increased glutamine released by typical psychedelic use is enough to evoke dmt release? just a theory