Extraction - Rivea corymbosa VS. Hawaiian Baby Woodrose (Hawaiian Strain)

[tucansam420]

what would be the better one to extract the LSA from? SWIM has reviewed a few places and the prices are much better for the "Hawaiian Baby Woodrose (Hawaiian Strain)" than the "Rivea corymbosa", but what has better alkaloid percentage?
also... would there be much a difference in the "Hawaiian Strain" than the "Ghana" or "Indian" strains? the prices are much a difference, but would it even out or would SWIM get more out of it in which way?
2000 seeds for $*** (ghana)
and 500 seeds for $*** (hawaiian) (same prices) but what would have a better outcome when extracting?

[69Ron]

Hawaiian Baby Woodrose is far better. Don't bother with any other kinds of seeds. They are a waste of money, especially if extracting. Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds contain many times more LSA than all the others out there.

Stick to the actual Hawaiian strain. People have more consistent high yields from that strain.

If you’re going to do a highly concentrated A/B extraction, be careful! The results are extremely potent. All it takes is about 2-5 mg of alkaloids to get pretty strong effects.

Note that SWIM found out its actually LSH, and not LSA that does most of the magic. LSA is mostly just a sedative, while the LSH in the seeds is a psychedelic stimulant very similar to LSD.

Fresh seeds are best.

You’ll probably want to look up how to convert the LSA into LSH using various sources of acetaldehyde (peppermint oil, sherry wine, rum, etc).

[tucansam420]

thanks for the info. swim was planning someday in the near future to extract some LSA and make it into LSH.
you mentioned "A/B extraction" for a very potent outcome. what does "A/B extraction" mean exactly? swim is very interested in making very very potent strong stuff. =]

[chillinwill]

i know a/b extraction means the acid/base extraction but im not sure how to do that....there have been plenty of posts on this so just search and you will find it

[Synesthesiac]

Originally Posted by tucansam420

thanks for the info. swim was planning someday in the near future to extract some LSA and make it into LSH.
you mentioned "A/B extraction" for a very potent outcome. what does "A/B extraction" mean exactly? swim is very interested in making very very potent strong stuff. =]

I might be wrong here, and someone else should verify this before swiy goes off and uses this method. The method can slightly change for different materials being extracted.

Basic A/B extraction.

1. Grind up material to be extracted
2. Put in an acid solution less then ph5 (jar of white vinegar, clear lemon juice....)
3. Leave to soak, and shake the jar every now and again.
4. Filter out the gunk and solid material (probably an idea to keep it incase you can get more yield out of it with another extraction)
5. Add some lye (caustic soda) to the liquid solution to basify it > ph9, which unlocks the alkaloids.
6. Then extract the alkaloids from this. For DMT I know it can be done by mixing with some naptha and using a freeze precipation or evaporation on the separated naptha. But I suspect theres something different for HBRW, as I know that dmt is particularly good at absorbing into naptha, but this may not be true with other substances.

[tucansam420]

thanks for the post. swim will wait until somebody verifies this before trying it.
naptha for DMT, which swim has. but what would it be HBWR? swim is currently working with HBWR and San Pedro.
thanks swimmers =]

[69Ron]

Originally Posted by Synesthesiac

I might be wrong here, and someone else should verify this before swiy goes off and uses this method. The method can slightly change for different materials being extracted.

Originally Posted by Synesthesiac

Basic A/B extraction.



1. Grind up material to be extracted

2. Put in an acid solution less then ph5 (jar of white vinegar, clear lemon juice....)

3. Leave to soak, and shake the jar every now and again.

4. Filter out the gunk and solid material (probably an idea to keep it incase you can get more yield out of it with another extraction)

5. Add some lye (caustic soda) to the liquid solution to basify it > ph9, which unlocks the alkaloids.

6. Then extract the alkaloids from this. For DMT I know it can be done by mixing with some naptha and using a freeze precipation or evaporation on the separated naptha. But I suspect theres something different for HBRW, as I know that dmt is particularly good at absorbing into naptha, but this may not be true with other substances.

That will not work for LSA. You need to change a few things and then it will work.

Before going to step 5, should need to defat the seeds with a moderately non-polar solvent like diethyl ether, chloroform, or dichloromethane (DCM) or a similar solvent. You should defat 10 times. This is essential. If you skip this step, you’ll also extract a lot of fat soluble toxins from the seeds that cause stomach cramps, headaches, etc.

The pH in step 5 should be 9-10 and NO HIGHER or you risk destroying the LSA. I recommend using sodium carbonate in place of sodium hydroxide. At most, sodium carbonate will bring the pH up to 11 which might be ok, but sodium hydroxide can bring the pH up to 14 which I believe will destroy LSA.

Step 6 won’t work at all. Freebase LSA is not soluble in naphtha, it’s too polar to dissolve in such a non-polar substance as naphtha. Use a moderately non-polar solvent like diethyl ether, chloroform, or dichloromethane (DCM) instead of naphtha. There are no reports of being able to freeze precipitate LSA successfully, you’ll just have to evaporate it. It won’t evaporate to a crystal, but instead a sticky crude extract. If you want crystals you’ll have to re-extract the crude extract using the exact same steps starting from step 2. Then you’ll end up with white crystals. Maybe someone knows of a trick to get crystals without doing the extract again on the crude extract. If so, PLEASE POST IT!

Freebase LSA (Ergine) has an XLogP of 0.6. That means it is very polar. Naphtha is a mix of several solvents and has an XLogP of roughly 4.0, so it’s too non-polar to extract LSA. Solvents with a similar XLogP will extract Freebase LSA such as the following:

MEK XLogP = 0.4
Ethyl Acetate XLogP = 0.7
Ethyl Ether XLogP = 0.9
DCM XLogP =1.5
Chloroform XLogP = 2.1

Possibly the following MIGHT work:

Toluene XLogP = 2.5
Xylene XLogP = 2.5

[Synesthesiac]

Originally Posted by 69Ron

That will not work for LSA. You need to change a few things and then it will work. [.............]

Thanks for the info. Always learning new stuff around here. swim has some hbrw now and is going to experiment. And good point about the defat step, I suppose this is the whole point of extracting the stuff instead of just eating straight, so you get rid of all the side effects. kinda pointless without it.

[tucansam420]

Originally Posted by 69Ron

That will not work for LSA. You need to change a few things and then it will work.

Before going to step 5, should need to defat the seeds with a moderately non-polar solvent like diethyl ether, chloroform, or dichloromethane (DCM) or a similar solvent. You should defat 10 times. This is essential. If you skip this step, you’ll also extract a lot of fat soluble toxins from the seeds that cause stomach cramps, headaches, etc.

The pH in step 5 should be 9-10 and NO HIGHER or you risk destroying the LSA. I recommend using sodium carbonate in place of sodium hydroxide. At most, sodium carbonate will bring the pH up to 11 which might be ok, but sodium hydroxide can bring the pH up to 14 which I believe will destroy LSA.

Step 6 won’t work at all. Freebase LSA is not soluble in naphtha, it’s too polar to dissolve in such a non-polar substance as naphtha. Use a moderately non-polar solvent like diethyl ether, chloroform, or dichloromethane (DCM) instead of naphtha. There are no reports of being able to freeze precipitate LSA successfully, you’ll just have to evaporate it. It won’t evaporate to a crystal, but instead a sticky crude extract. If you want crystals you’ll have to re-extract the crude extract using the exact same steps starting from step 2. Then you’ll end up with white crystals. Maybe someone knows of a trick to get crystals without doing the extract again on the crude extract. If so, PLEASE POST IT!

Freebase LSA (Ergine) has an XLogP of 0.6. That means it is very polar. Naphtha is a mix of several solvents and has an XLogP of roughly 4.0, so it’s too non-polar to extract LSA. Solvents with a similar XLogP will extract Freebase LSA such as the following:

MEK XLogP = 0.4
Ethyl Acetate XLogP = 0.7
Ethyl Ether XLogP = 0.9
DCM XLogP =1.5
Chloroform XLogP = 2.1

Possibly the following MIGHT work:

Toluene XLogP = 2.5
Xylene XLogP = 2.5

thank you very very much. this was very helpful.
swim isn't a chemist or anything, just some guy trying to make some stuff for himself. =] so, what does "XLogP" mean exactly? swim understands all the rest and is going to try this very soon. =] mucho thank yous from swim.

tucansam420 added 8 Minutes and 28 Seconds later...

swim has another question if you other swims don't mind =]

swim is going to use the above method to extract the LSA. but swim was curious what he can use for the lemon juice/white vinegar. would it be best to use the "white vinegar", because swim saw "Pure Lemon Extract" in the store which is, swim thinks, 87% alcohol. is this bad? or should swim stick to the white vinegar? swim will use whatever works the best and isn't dangerous/hard to get ahold of in California. swim read that pure ethanol is illegal in this state =[
also... what will the end result of the freebase LSA dissolve in? like water? or does it need something specific to mix it with?