Neurotransmitter Tests

[HorseBucket]

This is pretty cool


You can get neurotransmitter test kits to find out the levels of dopamine, serotonin and other neurotransmitters in your brain and find out if you have any deficiencies. They don't come cheap though. It must be new technology. Hopefully they'll lower the price of this kinda thing in the next couple of years. I wonder how complicated it is to make your own.

[Alfa]

Please post description of the tests, instead of linking to a commercial site.

[Felix Guattari]

As far as I know, the only 'neurotransmitter tests' are urine metabolite counts and spinal tap analysis. Neither of which have been proven to be very effective at all.

And while I can't speak for everyone, SWiM doesn't exactly feel comfortable doing a spinal tap in his kitchen. Ditto for urinalysis.

There is also the Braverman test which purports to be able to diagnose neurotransmitter deficiencies with a battery of multiple choice questions. I'm skeptical of this as well.

Do you have more information on this new test?

[Richard_smoker]

there are metabolites from neurotransmitters, like serotonin and epinephrine, that are readily available in urine...

READILY available, and easy-to-test.

whoever is selling these tests is probably a scam-artist though, because neurotransmitters are used for WAY more purposes than just making your brain "feel good." thus, the only utility in the test would be to see if you're WAY-OVER-producing (a couple o'rare diseases) or not-producing-at-all (never happens).
-DICK

[Alfa]

Wouldn't it be possible to detect if the quantity of neurotransmitters is low?

[Felix Guattari]

There's a handful of reasons why metabolite-tests aren't as effective as they sound. First, and most obviously, there are plenty of 'neurotransmitters' found in peripheral tissues - all of which are excreted in urine.

Secondly, the quantities of any given neurotransmitter vary significantly throughout the day, meaning that any urine-metabolite test that has any claim to accuracy must work from numerous samples throughout the day. Most clinics claim to be able to work from only one mailed-in sample. Unfortunately, we have no idea why most metabolite levels fluctuate. Is it due to actually changing levels of neurotransmitters? Or changing levels of metabolic enzymes? Or changing rates of excretion? Do the levels of enzymes in all parts of the body fluctuate at the same rate? Granted, there's some data on some of these things, but hardly enough to pull together anything like a complete picture. Urine metabolite levels also fluctuate in response to stress and diet ph, without any obvious changes in mood.

I've also read a few case reports from clinicians reporting that the results from such tests were counter-intuitive and unhelpful; i.e., depressives would have regular metabolite levels or shortages in areas unexpected in a model which correlates urine-metabolite levels with CNS neurotransmitter levels.

It also doesn't help that, almost universally, these neurotransmitter tests are done by 'holistic medicine' practices, who then use the tests to push scientifically unsupportable amino-acid replacement therapies.

Also telling is that these tests are used nowhere in mainstream medicine, and every doctor I've asked has either not heard of these tests, or regards them as largely unhelpful.

The one thing urine neurotransmitter metabolite tests have shown to be useful for is identifying kinds of tumors which raise neurotransmitter levels in the PNS.

I'll try to compile a list of sources in the next couple of days.

Also, if anyone has either conflicting or supporting research I'd love to see it.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good point and interesting note about how these tests can be misused by the "alternative" crowd.

[lostmente]

last time swim saw his psychiatrist (4 weeks ago) he was told a test was just introduced to measure the rate of serotonin metabolism, but its a 1200$ (NZD) test and not subsidized. Active serotonin level tests are pretty inconclusive, the concentrations between synapses are VERY low and change rapidly

To that end, neurotransmitters serotonin, dopamine, glutamate, choline etc etc are base structures with many varieties of each compound.

[Felix Guattari]

Right. One could conceivably learn something about changes in metabolic rates... but that's about it, as far as I can tell.

[Richard_smoker]

Originally Posted by Alfa

Wouldn't it be possible to detect if the quantity of neurotransmitters is low?

as was brought up by other posters, it is true that although a substance is 100% NEUROTRANSMITTER while sitting in certain areas of the brain, in peripheral tissues, these same 'messengers' are used to do altogether, totally different things...

While on this topic, I should say that much of the "toxicity" of some drugs that have been pulled off the shelves in recent years can be attributed to the drug's effect on serotonin in the vascular system IN ADDITION TO the intended effect of serotonin on the brain. Case in point: Fen-Phen. The now-illegal Fen caused heart valve problems & pulmonary hypertension because of serotonin's effect on the large vessels.

A deficiency could only be picked up on the urine test if there is, in fact, a deficiency in ALL tissues. This is unlikely to even exist in a living person... I don't know of any disease that would cause something like this that would be measureable in urine. However, if you get a functional tumor of the adrenal glands (called a pheochromocytoma), then your urinary catecholamines (serotonin, epinephrine, norepinephrine), and all their metabolites will be sky-high compared to the urine of a 'normal' person.

the only way you can determine if someone has "low" neurotransmitter levels is by:
1. autopsy. you make slices of the brain, and actually measure the concentration of different NT's.
2. Indirect measurement by PET scan or PET/MRI. This scan will show you the oxygen-utilization of a cluster of cells...different measurements at different locations in the brain will allow a scientist to attribute abnormal activity to different neurotransmitter levels, indirectly.
-DICK

[KomodoMK]

It would be cool to be able to (home) test the levels of neurotransmitters before and after using drugs just to see the severity of the fluctuations, the duration of the change and how it compares from person to person. But it really is pointless unless it can be done so accurately.

My little fishy would become a test subject for this but much prefers the PET/MRI scan to the brain slicing option. :P

[Richard_smoker]

Originally Posted by KomodoMK

My little fishy would become a test subject for this but much prefers the PET/MRI scan to the brain slicing option. :P

hmm... i guess you're not concerned with ACCURACY!

It's ok that you didn't realize it at first, but the PET scan pales in comparison to the autopsy method! In fact, there are some pure-science circles who wouldn't even consider the PET scan to be a valid measurement!

now, I will hit 'submit reply' and walk back to my t.v. room, drunk with the 'vapors' from being right and having convinced someone to change their minds! -DICK

[KomodoMK]

Originally Posted by Richard_smoker

hmm... i guess you're not concerned with ACCURACY!

It's ok that you didn't realize it at first, but the PET scan pales in comparison to the autopsy method! In fact, there are some pure-science circles who wouldn't even consider the PET scan to be a valid measurement!

now, I will hit 'submit reply' and walk back to my t.v. room, drunk with the 'vapors' from being right and having convinced someone to change their minds! -DICK

There comes a unfortunate and rather sad problem with accuracy... not being able to repeat the experiment with various other chemicals because your brain looks like it's been attacked by a butcher on a 8 day mescaline/ether/pcp/meth binge.

[elpatto]

A freind of mine is actualy having a neurotrasmitter test tomorro, after a horrible acid trip that he never seemed to come out of. More of a inquery for him, also possibly to receive some leniency from his rehab program officer. I believe it's a full 24 hour montoring, in his home, with electrodes and shit on his head. Pretty intense stuff, the staff explained that he should basically do nothing for the whole 24 hours, like no video games, reading or activities that would alter his brainwaves too much.

[Richard_smoker]

"electrodes on his head" = EEG aka ElectroEncephaloGraphy or "graphical measurement of electrical activity of the brain"

horrible acid trip he never came out of = every sane person's worst nightmare!

-DICK