Drug info - Should swim post Fentanyl extraction for smoking TEK

[thebige]

YES OR NO Should swim post a TEK on the method to extract Fentanyl from Gel and no gel fent patches? Swim has stated before that he wouldn't give out proper methods of extraction,tips, how to's and best method for using Fentanyl patches buccally(oraly) because of the DANGER of smoking,eating,injecting Fent.Since Fent is measured in micrograms-swim will not be able to tell the amount of fent to ml.Or knowing how much fent swim has extracted.Well swim is looking for feedback and you folks can weigh in and give your opinion yes or no.....a poll of sorts and swim will decide from your answers...........Swim figures that others will do this anyway,no mater how much they are warned of the posible dangers of OD and Death.................... MODS-swim was unsure where to post this...so please move as you see fit..Thank you for your time and effort you put into this Fourm.....thebige

Reputation Comments on this post:

Smart to ask before posting if unsure. Good thinking =]

[chillinwill]

i am not really interested in the TEK but just thought I would give my opinion on this....even though fentanyl is extremely dangerous especially once it has been extracted out of the patch and is measured in micrograms, in my opinion, I think it would be best if the TEK was posted especially because people are going to do it anyways and here on DF, harm reduction is practiced thus its better to give the people the information rather than keeping it from them

Just for people that are going to do it, you have been warned that messing with fentanyl (especially once extracted from the patch) is extremely dangerous due to the minute doseages and the possibility of OD and death are very high if you are not careful!

[fiveleggedrat]

Swim struggles with issues like this all the time, but usually ones not relating to harm reduction, just discoveries that would be dangerous for the general population. It sucks.

Swim thinks it is a bad idea, but only because someone (Read: Unscrupulous dealers and such) will use it in a bad manner. Someone always has to pee in the pool.

But Swim is far from knowing what is best. The above is only one opinion.

fiveleggedrat added 4 Minutes and 29 Seconds later...

Also, with all the bad press Fent has been receiving lately, all it takes is one lousy TIME report on illegal processing and abuse of what the press mostly sees as heroin patches. Best to keep things under the radar, or to a tight circle.

[jon-q]

In swims opinion this forum should not moralise the rights and wrongs of any type of drug/usage of said drug it should simply offer clear concise information and well thought out views.if somebody is going to abuse fentanyl patches it is better that they do so in the safest possible way.
Eg purifying street heroin gives a much greater risk of overdose but reduces the risk of vain damage e.t.c ..
i hope this helps swiybige reach a decision.....

[fiveleggedrat]

Question: Are there any real dangers/problems from smoking the patch/gel without extraction? Is there a danger from NOT posting this? Or is it going to just increase the amount of people killin' fent on a pipe, and being killed by fent on a pipe.

[Lisa J]

SWIM would rather have ALL the facts in order to make an informed decision, SWIM has a regretfully high opiate tolerance and has used/abused fentanyl for several years, she knows how to go about this with her older type patches but not the new ones. SWIM would rather get her high from her prescribed meds than return to heroin again.

[sknkv2]

Post it, as has been said people will try it anyway, hopefully this will make it easier/safer and keep people more informed.

[fiveleggedrat]

Still no answer:

Does the Fent user NEED to know how to extract? Is it dangerous to not extract? Please explain why.

If a Fent user could speak up too, that would be nice.

Swim sees this as something like "How to extract an extremely potent and powerful substance that most people do not have the equipment to properly measure, leading to overdose"

This is not to be compared to purifying street heroin. We ALL know street H is cut by dealers, and can have imperfections/impurities that are dangerous. A gel filled patch with a MICROGRAM dosed opioid that is made by Pharmaceutical companies and currently no APAP like items in it is not Street Heroin.

[thebige]

Hello fiveleggedrat,To answer your question No the Fent user does not need to extract and no there is NO danger to not extracting,not doing it is safer.However a abuser might belive that they must do this and if that person is unfamilar with the effects of Fent,well yes they could OD quicker than he could say "Hey Johnny Puke,watch this hit!" Last time swim checked 9 out of 10 Fourm members ..wanted to know. Also swim not only agrees with you and also sees this happening,swim has SEEN this happen at work.... Trying for Harm Reduction.. Thank You for your imput..has been considered. The world can be a ugly place......can't it.

[fiveleggedrat]

Thank you LOTS for answering my questions

It was for Swim's personal knowledge too, not just making sure my thoughts are heard.

Do appreciate it =]

[jon-q]

swim must strongly object,how can smoking or worse injecting laytex gel into one`s self not be harmfull,it must be full of toxins and of course it`s dangerous but so is shooting smack you cant argue "well A is not just as dangerouse as B" so lets keep B quiet.
no chemical extractions or synths should be attempted without the correct equipment or knowledge but in the real world they do.
swim is sorry if he sounds argumentative but this is my opinion.....................

[fiveleggedrat]

Keep in mind Smack or Heroin is STRONGLY illegal, and strictly a illicit substance in most countries. Fentanyl is a newer opioid with potential for helping those with high tolerances or special needs, but once pharm companies are pressured by government to pull their "heroin in a patch" off the markets because of dealers processing and selling it, it's all over.

The rash of Fent deaths from cut heroin a few years ago were bad enough. Swim wishes to see Fent have a long life on the market.

Miligrams and micrograms are VERY different things. Imagine is marijuana was legal, dangerous, and used for medicine. Hash would have stronger restrictions because it is a more potent product than regular dirt weed.

Your opinion is welcome here. Nothing personal or hard feelings from Swim, just discussing it as he sees it.

This thread has a purpose, and it is to discuss both sides of the issue

[jon-q]

swim takes on board all of swiys views,very little of illicit fentanyl on the blackmarket is extracted from patches it is made in illicit labs.the bad press of fentanyl is not just from deaths due to fent/heroin mixes there have also been a large number from the patches themselves.and finaly before i retire for bed,herion is a prescription only medicine in the uk the amount of overdoses on illicit herion has no bearing whatsoever in realation to its legal status as a prescription drug...
respectfully yours swim...........
I should make it clear that in the uk heroin can only be prescribed by a handfull of doctors and only in extreme circumstances..

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thank you for sharing your views.

[fiveleggedrat]

Swim is coming from the US. Easy to see why Swiy have different views on H. Here is the US, H is pretty much on par socially with meth, at least in Swim's experience. It's generally a BIG no no. H is schedule 1 here, the biggest, baddest, worst (lol) drugs with no medicinally accepted use.

Good job pointing that most Fent deaths were from illicitly produced lab material and not patch extracted material. Swim sees the patch extracted material hitting streets not too far off though, sadly.

[Richard_smoker]

i was under the distinct impression that people were starting to get some REALLY fucked-up liver enzymes from smoking and eating the gel as-is... i wanna say this info can be found on this forum, if one were to UTSE... if this could be confirmed, then maybe it would become your moral imperative to post the extraction... that is, if the extraction would removed the liver-toxins...-DICK

[fiveleggedrat]

If smoking and eat the gel as is causes any type of health issue, then of course, the Tek should be posted.

Swim is under the impression that the gel causes no problems. Swim clearly also does not know everything.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good debate; got the old blood pumpin..

[Richard_smoker]

yeah, i would have to say that finding out this information for SURE will be almost impossible... but if you can find those accounts of 2 or more regular gel-eating or gel-smoking users who insist that there's serious danger, then you should probably start off your TEK with the explanation of the possibility that some consituent of the gel is harmful to the liver when taken orally, smoked, or injected. If my memory serves me well, there are at least 2 old-timers from this forum who had unexplained liver toxicities, and this shouldn't be a huge surprise to anyone, especially when you consider what must go into creating a patch that will adequately and consistently deliver a specific flow of fentanyl into the bloodstream...without ever having contact with the oral cavity, the blood, the lungs, or the continually-discussed-and-always-mesmerizing-on-this-and-every-other-drug-related-forum:the butthole.
it's my understanding that those are some pretty volatile chemicals that are responsible for shuttling the drug across your skin. See DMSO. also "powerful organic solvent, capable of disrupting the waxy protective layers of both dead and living skin cells and also disrupting the cell-membranes of dermis.

-DICK

[thebige]

Hello,Richard smoker..Glad you chimed in..I will not talk about butthole as I eat enough pig butthole that has been put into the hotdogs that I eat...So I utse,but didn't come up with anything,but misuse of things is not new to me.Although I haven't read anything yet,I would asume that you are correct on the liver,but the way people will inject the Tar that comes up from Mexico--tells me that most users don't really care about the liver,veins etc. And to fiveleggedrat I should have clarified myself in saying the gel poses no problems,I belive as used as prescribed is is safe...but as to long term health effects,devil may know. But as harm reduction,should what is belived to be the best,most effective,and "safe" method be posted here,honestly I don,t know. Yes this info can be found elsewhere,Swim belives the best info comes from government drug agencies websites,they always post interesting reports.But swim has never been to one of "websites" that people speak of.

[FooManChoo]

This is a place of shared knowledge. Often regarding issues of a fragile nature. So to post this TEK would not be distasteful or out of nature for this forum. So do post man. You just might wanna outline the dangers of the use of the end result. And fuckin pray nothin bad comes to anyone after viewing your TEK.

Peace

[Richard_smoker]

yeah, i agree with ^^^^.

the concerns about gel causing elevated liver enzymes can be found in this post, here, here, here

someone with supposedly "good" liver enzymes...this person occasionally smokes but does NOT eat the patch contents here,

seems like some of these reports are definitely "i remember someone having some kind of problem or something" variety. This could be attributed to the site propagating its own former nasty stories. However, I've located 1 user, possibly 2 who seem to be legitimately found with elevated liver enzymes, impending liver failure, and have been EATING the gel chronically.

i hate that no one has properly investigated these "occurences." however, as far as anyone knows, it seems that people who EAT the patch contents are the ones who have been found to have liver issues. To best of my knowledge, smoking has not caused this problem, and 2 chronic smokers claim to have healthy liver enzymes.

What could be causing these enzyme elevations? no idea. many posters claim that the patches essentially contain glycerine, water, and fentanyl. But there must be a "carrier" to shuttle the fentanyl molecules thru the waxy cuticle of skin, and then thru the dermis, and into the blood supply. I know DMSO has been used for this purpose (a powerful solvent, rumored to be an ingredient of WD-40), but I have heard that DMSO is no longer used for this purpose. if anyone can add to this, I might be able to respond as to the potential for liver toxicity.

hope this helps. someone should really look closer into this. -DICK

[bigfish1980]

SWIM is prescribed the Mylan/non gel patches, and would like to know how to extract the pure fentanyl from the gelless patches. please post!!!

[fiveleggedrat]

Swim gives up. The info is going to get posted sometime or another.

Then some fiend will OD on his abused 'scripts. Bye bye, Fentanyl. Never even knew ya.

[jon-q]

Originally Posted by fiveleggedrat

Swim gives up. The info is going to get posted sometime or another.

Then some fiend will OD on his abused 'scripts. Bye bye, Fentanyl. Never even knew ya.

Swim being english clearly has a different take on this question as anyswiy reading my previous posts will know,swim has however had enough first hand experience with america and "straight" americans to know that in the main you are a fairly well grounded nation.Is the hysteria sourounding fentanyl patches so bad that "one or two" junkie abuse overdoses risks either complicating or ending the fentanyl program.

swim as just awoke so be gentle with your replys....

[fiveleggedrat]

Here in America, We have sensationalist, crazy articles in the paper every day about how dangerous things like Oxycontin, Fentanyl patches/lollipops, and methadone are going way up in abuse. Really, abuse has not gone up, it has just gone public. The US has huge hangups on opiate abuse.

Swim lives with his family, and came home today to his mother chewing him out about how he better have stopped using drugs, because some kid in the news died from mixing Oxycontin, Xanax, and Valium. Duh, deserved to die. No pity for fools. You don't see people who accidentally shoot themself all over the news, with anti-gun people going nuts. Same for other potentially dangerous activities. Just drugs.

Another thing she said was, quote, "They said Oxycontin is like heroin! You BETTER not be doing any drugs!"

Jesus, when will people realize DOSAGE is what makes something dangerous?!

His parents then proceeded to drink vodka.

Dude, seriously, fent is in the paper weekly. Not even bullshitting. I always see it on the news on in the paper, pretty often, how people are dying from patches, or how some kids got the lollipops, or how some dealers are selling the lollipops/patches to kids because they think patches or pops could not be dangerous. Sensationalist media, like I said.

I have NO problem with the Tek being out there, but I have problems with the Tek being there for dummies/unscrupulous dealers. Restricting info is not my job, though. That's the governments.

[LostAndFound]

OK, although a newbie here..and the fact that it's almost 4AM, because of having over 8 years of experience with the patches, (dosages 25mcg-150mcg's), swim thought she'd chime in. WHY is swim up at 4AM almost nightly and never sleeps more than an hour at a time?? bc swim has a genetic disorder which causes LOTS of pain..and bc swims doc insisted on taking her OFF the patch, (1 good thing is swim doesn't have to deal with all the icky adhesive all over herself anymore), at the same time, he also lowered her dosages of the additional oxycodone HCl (from 80mg/day-->20mg/day) and methadone (60mg/day-->40mg/day). SO, swim is having a VERY hard time trying to control her pain. She wishes that medical marijuana was avail. here,..or even if she had the $$ to MOVE, as it is used by others with this disorder with a lot of positive results.
OK--fent patch--yep, swim has done it orally when the pain got bad. With my tolerance, she wasn't very worried about ODing. Swim even tried putting some of the gel that was left in one,..uuhhmm, I believe you call it "plugging". OK, swim needs to tell you that as far as getting "high" on opiates--when she increased her dose too high, would get nauseous, puke, and sleep. By ANY route of admin. BUT, she measures it in how it relieves the pain so she can at least function. Believe swim, she has to ingest, (by ANY route) a TON of opiates to relieve serious pain.
The fentanyl WAS more effective when oral, or the other end--but, if overdone, nausea. And, no, as far as liver enzymes...the only prob she ever had with elevated liver enzymes was when she had to take oxycodone with APAP. Even on patch, 75mcg, demerol 25?mg and a morphine drip...got itchy, a little nauseous, (relieved by Zofran), but liver was fine. Freaked out the hospital staff though.
note--swim also needs 5x the normal dose of novacaine for dental procedures too.
YES, Swim realizes she isn't normal. Most medical people accuse her of being an "obvious heroin addict". <sigh> Swim WISHES she could try H,..even just once, just to see if it would work.
At this time, swim has to forego her "daily" pain meds to save up for when pain is bad, especially when she has things to do. Otherwise, my life is being spent in bed most of the time--to go ANYWHERE outside means back brace, leg and arm braces, and at LEAST 80-100mgs of oxy and methadone. (80-100 all together).
She DOES have a couple of patches squirreled away. She HAD two boxes left of 25mcg--had talked doc into one more month before stopping completely and AFTER she had already withdrawn from them. (Luckily, he didn't reduce her dosages all at once, so she made up for the lost fentanyl with the others.). Swim has one gel patch and 1 of the new ones she was saving until she could figure out SOME way to increase the effect..hence finding this topic. OR, until one of these days when the pain gets bad enough AGAIN, she'll try almost ANYTHING!!
Oh, AND, btw, swim is a former medical professional....20 yrs as a paramedic/RN and almost 3 yrs of medical school. While she did plenty of experimenting with weed, shroom, (absolute FAVORITE!), a little mesc, (2nd! , and coke...bc of career, kids, etc., she gave up her consciousness expansion out of necessity. If she wasn't stuck in a VERY small town in the boonies with no vehicle, she KNOWS things would be different.
She is looking for ANY way to increase efficacy of meds she has...including alternatives for the two spare patches!!
MUCH thanks to the smart, caring and compassionate folks in this forum!!!
Swim is going to 'experiment" with,..uhhmm.."plugging", (there MUST be a better way of saying this!! LOL!!) about 30mgs of her oxy HCl and TRY and get some relief and rest before appointments today.
PEACE!
'found'