Other - help advice on legality of buying 5-meo-dmt online plz

[h3artshapedb0x]

SWIM was considering buying 5-meo-dmt online from a rc vendor from which SWIM's friend had bought 4-acetoxy-DIPT however when SWIM told his friend of his plans his friend said that it would get taken as the DEA would consider it a analog SWIM would like to know if the dea could accually take his package if he could get charged with attempting to purchase an analog and any other useful information on buying 5-meo-dmt or any other research chemicals

[N0ly]

You should probably change the thread name to something more specific to the question that you are asking. From the title it seems that you are asking for sources.

[Euphoric]

From erowid:

5-MeO-DMT is unscheduled in the United States. It is possible that it could be considered an analog (of N,N-DMT), in which case, sales for human consumption or possession with the intent to ingest could be prosecuted under the Federal Analogue Act though we are unaware of any existing federal cases (6/21/04). We have heard of a prosecution for sales of 5-MeO-DMT under the Analog Act in California in the mid-1990's, but have been unable to find documentation for this, nor do we know the outcome of the case.


U.S. STATE LAW #
Nebraska #
Schedule I (Reference)
S. Dakota #
Schedule I : 5-methoxy-N, N-Dimethyltryptamine. Feb 2003

And please change the thread title.

[h3artshapedb0x]

does anyone know anyone who accually ordered 5-meo-dmt online and gotten it if so id like to hear from them or if anyone knows anyone who got busted for it thanks peace

[N0ly]

Pink ordered some a few years ago, it came by courier from japan without any apparent hitches. As for now he doesn't know if it would be confiscated.

[moracca]

There are plenty of people who have ordered 5-meo-dmt online and received it successfully, but there are also many people who have ordered other chemicals which are CLEARLY illegal, and also received successfully. The chances of a package being intercepted are somewhat low, but it CAN and DOES happen. If 5-meo-dmt were discovered by the authorities, even if it is not specifically a scheduled chemical, it would almost certainly be a big problem for you, so proceed at your own risk.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Reasonable advice

[Alfa]

5-meo-dmt will certainly fall under the analog act, since the definition of positional isomer has changed.

[mictihtoya]

Originally Posted by Alfa

5-meo-dmt will certainly fall under the analog act, since the definition of positional isomer has changed.

And what scheduled substance is 5-methoxy-DMT a positional isomer of?

[Xtaldoc]

Since the 5-hydroxy compound is listed in the US CSA as a controlled substance (Bufotenine), 5-MeO DMT would bee easy to construe as an analog - under their intentionally loose definitional scheme... That having been said, the US controlled substance analog control act requires a "three pronged test" in order to determine if one has committed an offense indictable under the statute. The 'chemical' definition is one prong. Assuming that is a 'given', there is still the requirement that the accused be in the process of possessing, selling or manufacturing the substance in question. Since we're talking about an 'on-line purchase' scenario... this is also a 'given'. That leads us to the ONE remaining prong: INTENT. Yes, there is a requirement that, all else aside, the substance in question MUST be intended to bee used by humans (human use requirement). In US legal parlance, this is referred to as a 'scienter' provision, aka "knowingly breaking the law or intending to do so". The DEA usually tries to 'cheat' this requirement in their 'Sting' operations by setting up an RC vendor web site that uses a 'drug abuse oriented' company name, logo, or other 'decorations' so as to later attempt to prove that the accused "MUST have intended this for human use" by virtue of its being advertised as such by the DEA. Of course, this is really simply another form of 'entrapment', wherein they 'advertise' the opportunity to commit an illegal act to a stranger, then arrest anyone who takes them up on it. In any other criminal context (in the US) this would be disallowed and considered as entrapment... but the CSA analog laws are complex enough to the lay person (yes, even a Judge..) that the DEA chemists have managed to con the judiciary into pretending that's not entrapment..... It is. Even so, in cases where a package is received that fits their definition of an 'analog'', and the vendor isn't obviously some "lets get high" web site, DEA may well pull a search on the receiving premises on the theory that they have 'probable cause' to believe that the recipient intends 'human use' and want to search for evidence of this. That said, if they search the receiving location and other records, etc, pertinent to the accused; and no evidence showing 'intent' is uncovered... no charges SHOULD result. The burden of proof is supposed to be on THEM to show intent.... Beware: Swix has seen the DEA lie, cheat, steal AND plant evidence. BTW: a person with a LEGITIMATE need or use for a substance will likely have evidence of this LEGAL need/use at his place of residence, business or wherever the pkg was received. Alternatively, a 'legitimate' possessor would likely label any such compound in such a way as to WARN anyone of the possible effects of accidental ingestion, if being retained in his or her possession...for the simple sake of potential legal liability. ANYONE possessing any RC that may be an 'analog' of an illegal substance, but possesses it for legal (other) reasons should make sure that sufficient evidence is available to show SwiYour actual (legal) interest/use for nthis substance - ON THE PREMISES - and that any samples clearly admonish and warn against accidental ingestion. Additionally - the size of the order should be commensurate with "research" quantities. Nuff said?

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thorough explanation of the law... I didn't know exactly how that worked

[theonethatgotaway]

Swim was a bit worried also ,he didn't know that this substance could be considered as a analog,he found out after he ordered .Although the package was picked up safely without any incidents swim will not repeat the same mistake again,so this was the first and last time that swim will order this substance.There are a lot of rc much safer to buy like 2ci,2ce,jhw018/250 ,etc,that cant be considered an analog ,swim will stick with these
However swim would suggest to buy the rc locally or from a country that doesn't require to keep the package into the customs,in this way there is a very very low change to get busted.

[konshuss]

If the vendor uses discreet packaging the risk of interception is low.

[xXDaFoolXx]

About 4 Years ago SWIM ordered 7 types (200mg each) from a Japanese bound online company. It is a shame i forget the address, because they were very reliable; also make sure you read state law on research chemicals, in the last year many of them have become marked under "Controlled Substance".

[chillinwill]

xXDaFoolXx, even if you do remember the address, source discussion is reserved for gold members and above, and even then, only in the sources forum. I know you didn't post the source but just a friendly reminder not to.

[Alfa]

The 2-c phenethylamines seem to be analogs are well

[theonethatgotaway]

analogs to which substance?lsd?

[D.A.R.E.]

Originally Posted by theonethatgotaway

analogs to which substance?lsd?

How bout 2c-B, a schedule 1 chem.

Hazpat added 1 Minutes and 27 Seconds later...

5-MeO-DMT is a clear analogue to N,N-DMT.

[theonethatgotaway]

oh,swim doesn't know why he thought of lsd.Swim just checked and found out that 2c-i ,2C-T-2,2C-T-4 are schedule1 and 2c-b is schedule2 in swim's country.2c-e is not listed as a controlled substance.If 2c-e could be considered as a analog why would they bother to put 4 substances from the 2c family as controlled and leave 2c-b alone?It doesn't make sense.It would've make more sense to put just,let's say, 2c-i as controlled and the rest of 2c family would be considered as analogs right?

[Xtaldoc]

Originally Posted by theonethatgotaway

oh,swim doesn't know why he thought of lsd.Swim just checked and found out that 2c-i ,2C-T-2,2C-T-4 are schedule1 and 2c-b is schedule2 in swim's country.2c-e is not listed as a controlled substance.If 2c-e could be considered as a analog why would they bother to put 4 substances from the 2c family as controlled and leave 2c-b alone?It doesn't make sense.It would've make more sense to put just,let's say, 2c-i as controlled and the rest of 2c family would be considered as analogs right?

As far as Swim's concerned, the entire concept of the Cont Subs Act, and the analog addition to it, is wrongheaded and totally out of whack with his conception of what may be called, " humane social controls".

To grasp how they've arrived at such a half-assed system, it helps to know that, often, when a substance first comes to the gov's attention, they'll give it a look to see if they are 'covered' under the analog act. If so, they dont have pressure to immediately schedule or emergency schedule the substance. If a substance continues to turn up on the streets or gets more media attention it will, itself, be scheduled without much delay. In spirit, the analog act is intended to prevent circumvention of the controlled subs act by folks who might attach some 'harmless appendage' onto an otherwise controlled substance so as to render it outside of the specific definition of any listed substance. However, once this 'new' substance is encountered on the streets and properly assessed, it is generally petitioned for scheduling in whichever schedule its own characteristics (as a drug ) dictate. All controlled subs (US laws) that have no accepted medical use are assigned to schedule 1, however, and all "new" drugs fit that description, IMO.

So, the fact that lots of scheduled drugs COULD be seen as analogs of each other doesn't mean that they will continue to be seen & dealt with in that fashion after there's been time to know enough about the substance to give it its own place in the schedules.

Swim is opposed to their thinking on this whole matter of people telling other people what they can and cant eat, etc. He only offered the above to illustrate their sick little rationale for ruining more lives with their "cure" than the original "disease" . Hope it clarifies. X-Out.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Excellent clarification

[terrapinzflyer]

As Euphoric mentioned above it is scheduled as a class 1 in some states- Oklahoma should be added to the list as well.
Furthermore, on August 21 2009 the DEA asked for it to be rescheduled as schedule 1 nationally:

[Federal Register: August 21, 2009 (Volume 74, Number 161)]
[Proposed Rules]
[Page 42217-42220]
From the Federal Register Online via GPO Access [wais.access.gpo.gov]
[DOCID:fr21au09-12]

================================================== =====================
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

Drug Enforcement Administration

21 CFR Part 1308

[Docket No. DEA-331]


Schedules of Controlled Substances: Placement of 5-Methoxy-N,N-
Dimethyltryptamine Into Schedule I of the Controlled Substances Act

AGENCY: Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), Department of Justice.

ACTION: Notice of Proposed Rulemaking.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

SUMMARY: The Deputy Administrator of the Drug Enforcement
Administration (DEA) is issuing this notice of proposed rulemaking to
place the substance 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine (5-MeO-DMT) and
its salts into schedule I of the Controlled Substances Act (CSA). This
proposed action is based on a recommendation from the Acting Assistant
Secretary for Health of the Department of Health and Human Services
(DHHS) and on an evaluation of the relevant data by DEA. If finalized
as proposed, this action would impose the criminal sanctions and
regulatory controls of schedule I substances under the CSA on the
manufacture, distribution, dispensing, importation, exportation, and
possession of 5-MeO-DMT.

DATES: Written comments must be postmarked, and electronic comments
must be sent, on or before September 21, 2009. Commenters should be
aware that the electronic Federal Docket Management System will not
accept comments after midnight Eastern time on the last day of the
comment period.
<snip>
5-MeO-DMT is related to the schedule I hallucinogen, N,N-
dimethyltryptamine (DMT), in its chemical structure and pharmacological
properties. 5-MeO-DMT also shares pharmacological similarities with
several other schedule I hallucinogens such as 2,5-dimethoxy-4-
methylamphetamine (DOM), lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) and
mescaline. In animal drug discrimination studies, DOM, LSD, mescaline,
DMT, and alpha-methyltryptamine (AMT) fully substitute for the
discriminative stimulus cue of 5-MeO-DMT. In in vitro receptor binding
studies, 5-MeO-DMT, similar to DMT and other schedule I hallucinogens,
binds to central serotonin 2 (5-HT2) receptors.
Studies show that the potencies of hallucinogens in humans
correlate with their drug affinities for the 5-HT2 receptor
and discriminative stimulus potencies. Accordingly, 5-MeO-DMT produces
psychoactive effects in humans following inhalation (~6-20 mg),
intravenous injection (~0.7-3.1 mg), sublingual (~10 mg), intranasal
insufflation (~10 mg) and oral (~30 mg) (if encapsulated or taken with
a monoamine oxidase inhibitor) routes of administration. Anecdotal
reports from humans who have used 5-MeO-DMT describe hallucinogenic
effects similar to those produced by DMT. 5-MeO-DMT, however, is
reported to be 4 to 5-fold more potent than DMT when administered by
inhalation, sublingual or oral (if encapsulated) routes of
administration.

Control of 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine

Evidence of the abuse of 5-MeO-DMT was first reported in 1999 by
federal law enforcement personnel. According to the System to Retrieve
Information on Drug Evidence (STRIDE), a federal database for seized
drug exhibits analyzed by DEA laboratories, from January 1999 to
December 2008, law enforcement seized 33 drug exhibits and filed 23
cases pertaining to the trafficking, distribution and abuse of 5-MeO-
DMT. The seized drug exhibits comprised 89 grams of powder and 10
milliliters of liquid containing 5-MeO-DMT. Since 2004, National
Forensic Laboratory Information System (NFLIS), a database for drug
cases analyzed by federal, state and local forensic laboratories,
registered 23 state and local cases involving 27 analyzed items
containing 5-MeO-DMT.
There is evidence of clandestine laboratory operations to
synthesize 5-MeO-DMT. 5-MeO-DMT has been encountered in powder,
capsule, and liquid forms. 5-MeO-DMT is typically abused either by
smoking or insufflating the powder. Investigations by federal law
enforcement indicate that individuals, especially youths and young
adults, are purchasing 5-MeO-DMT from Internet-based chemical
suppliers. In addition, there are several instances where 5-MeO-DMT was
sold as a counterfeit of MDMA.
The risks to the public health associated with the abuse of 5-MeO-
DMT are similar to the risks associated with those of schedule I
hallucinogens. 5-MeO-DMT can pose serious health risks to the user and
general public through its ability to induce hallucinogenic effects and
other sensory distortions and impaired judgment. Self-reports that are
posted on Internet Web sites describe the abuse of this substance in
combination with other controlled drugs such as DMT, N,N-
diethyltryptamine (DET), LSD, marijuana, ecstasy, or mushrooms
(contains psilocybin and psilocin). This practice of drug abuse
involving combinations can pose additional health risks to the users
and the general public. These data show that the continued trafficking
and abuse of 5-MeO-DMT pose hazards to the public health and safety.
Indeed, there have been reports of emergency room admissions and death
associated with the abuse of 5-MeO-DMT.
There are no FDA-approved drug products. 5-MeO-DMT has never been
approved by the FDA for marketing as a human drug product in the United
States and there are no recognized therapeutic uses of 5-MeO-DMT in the
United States.
References to the above studies and data may be found in the Health
and Human Services scheduling recommendation and DEA's independent
analysis, both of which are available on the electronic docket
associated with this rulemaking.

Placement of 5-MeO-DMT Into Schedule I

In accordance with 21 U.S.C. 811(b) of the CSA, DEA has gathered
and reviewed the available information regarding the pharmacology,
chemistry, trafficking, actual abuse, pattern of abuse, and the
relative potential for abuse of 5-MeO-DMT. On February 21, 2007, the
Deputy Administrator of the DEA submitted these data to the Acting
Assistant Secretary for Health, Department of Health and Human
Services. In accordance with 21 U.S.C. 811(b), the Deputy Administrator
also requested a scientific and medical evaluation and a scheduling
recommendation for 5-MeO-DMT from the Acting Assistant Secretary for
Health. On December 18, 2008, the Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary
for Health, Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS), sent the
Deputy Administrator of the DEA a scientific and medical evaluation and
a letter recommending that 5-MeO-DMT and its salts be placed into
schedule I of the CSA. Enclosed with the letter was a document prepared
by FDA entitled, ``Basis for the Recommendation to Control 5-Methoxy-
Dimethyltryptamine (5-MeO-DMT) in Schedule I of the Controlled
Substances Act.'' The document contained a review of the factors which
the CSA requires the

Page 42219

Secretary to consider (21 U.S.C. 811(b)). The factors considered by the
Assistant Secretary of Health and DEA with respect to 5-MeO-DMT were:
(1) Actual or relative potential for abuse;
(2) Scientific evidence of its pharmacological effects, if known;
(3) The state of current scientific knowledge regarding the drug;
(4) History and current pattern of abuse;
(5) The scope, duration, and significance of abuse;
(6) What, if any, risk there is to the public health;
(7) Psychic or physiological dependence liability; and
(8) Whether the substance is an immediate precursor of a substance
already controlled under the CSA.
Based on the recommendation of the Assistant Secretary for Health,
received in accordance with section 201(b) of the Act (21 U.S.C.
811(b)), and the independent review of the available data by DEA, the
Deputy Administrator finds that sufficient data exist to support the
placement of 5-MeO-DMT into schedule I of the CSA pursuant to 21 U.S.C.
811(a). The specific findings required pursuant to 21 U.S.C. 811 and
812 for 5-MeO-DMT to be placed into schedule I are as follows:
(1) 5-MeO-DMT has a high potential for abuse.
(2)5-MeO-DMT has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in
the United States.
(3) There is a lack of accepted safety for use of 5-MeO-DMT under
medical supervision.

Regulatory Requirements

If this rule is finalized as proposed, 5-methoxy-N,N-
dimethyltryptamine would be subject to regulatory controls and
administrative, civil and criminal sanctions applicable to the
manufacture, distribution, dispensing, importation and exportation of a
schedule I controlled substance, including the following:
Registration. Any person who manufactures, distributes, dispenses,
imports or exports 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine or who engages in
research or conducts instructional activities with respect to 5-
methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine, or who proposes to engage in such
activities, would be required to submit an application for schedule I
registration in accordance with part 1301 of Title 21 of the Code of
Federal Regulations.
Security. 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine would be subject to
schedule I security requirements and must be manufactured, distributed
and stored in accordance with Sec. Sec. 1301.71; 1301.72(a), (c), and
(d); 1301.73; 1301.74; 1301.75(a) and (c); and 1301.76 of Title 21 of
the Code of Federal Regulations.
Labeling and Packaging. All labels and labeling for commercial
containers of 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine which are distributed on
or after the effective date of a Final Rule finalizing this regulation
would be required to comply with requirements of Sec. Sec. 1302.03
through 1302.07 of Title 21 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
Quotas. Quotas for 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine would be
established pursuant to the requirements of part 1303 of Title 21 of
the Code of Federal Regulations.
Inventory. Every registrant required to keep records and who
possesses any quantity of 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine upon the
effective date of any Final Rule finalizing these regulations would be
required to keep an inventory of all stocks of the substance on hand
pursuant to Sec. Sec. 1304.03, 1304.04 and 1304.11 of Title 21 of the
Code of Federal Regulations. Every registrant who desires registration
in schedule I to handle 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine would be
required to conduct an inventory of all stocks of the substance.
Records. All registrants who handle 5-methoxy-N,N-
dimethyltryptamine would be required to keep records pursuant to
Sec. Sec. 1304.03, 1304.04 1304.21, 1304.22, and 1304.23 of Title 21
of the Code of Federal Regulations.
Reports. All registrants required to submit reports in accordance
with Sec. 1304.33 of Title 21 of the Code of Federal Regulations would
be required to do so regarding 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine.
Order Forms. All registrants involved in the distribution of 5-
methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine would be required to comply with the
order form requirements of part 1305 of Title 21 of the Code of Federal
Regulations.
Importation and Exportation. All importation and exportation of 5-
methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine would be required to be in compliance
with part 1312 of Title 21 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
Criminal Liability. Any activity with 5-methoxy-N,N-
dimethyltryptamine not authorized by, or in violation of, the
Controlled Substances Act or the Controlled Substances Import and
Export Act occurring on or after the effective date of any Final Rule
finalizing these regulations would be unlawful.
<snip>