UK - ACMD MDMA (ecstasy) Review

[Lunar Loops]

This is, unfortunately, shoddy reporting from the BBC. It is worth noting that "About 50 deaths a year involve the use of ecstasy" does not equate to About 50 deaths a year are caused by the use of ecstasy. Unfortunately, that is how most will interpret it. Anyway, here is the article (article link):

Ecstasy downgrade is considered


The body that advises the government on illegal drugs is meeting to discuss whether ecstasy should be downgraded from a Class A drug to Class B.

Senior police officers have written to The Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs urging it to leave ecstasy as a Class A drug, the BBC has learned.

Incoming head Prof David Nutt has said ecstasy is less harmful than cocaine or heroin and should be reclassified.

Ministers ignored a recommendation in May, by moving cannabis up to Class B.

The meeting over ecstasy could set the government on another collision course with the Advisory Council, should it recommend reclassification.

The panel will review the latest evidence before making its decision.

As part of the discussions, panel members will consider the submission from the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo), stating that transferring ecstasy to class B would send out an "unfortunate message".

"From an operational policing perspective, Acpo does not support any change in classification of ecstasy from its current class A status," said Tim Hollis, chief constable of Humberside Police and Acpo's lead officer on drugs.

A Home Office spokesman said the government firmly believes ecstasy should remain a Class A drug.

"Ecstasy can and does kill unpredictably. There is no such thing as a 'safe dose'," he said.

'Relative damage'

An estimated 250,000 people in England and Wales take ecstasy every month.

About 50 deaths a year involve the use of ecstasy - known to chemists as MDMA - in England and Wales, according to the Office for National Statistics. Figures showed there were 246 deaths between 2003 and 2007.

Professor Colin Blakemore, from Oxford University and the UK Drug Policy Commission, said all drugs were dangerous but that the issue was one of "relative harm".
"The problem, one of the problems, is the assumption that if the advisory council recommends that ecstasy should be downgraded they're in a sense encouraging people to use it - that's not the case at all.


"They are simply making a statement about the relative damage associated with ecstasy compared with crack cocaine and heroin, where it is at the moment."

The Transform Drug Policy Foundation, a charity that says prohibition is the major cause of drug-related problems, said this latest review would only result in "little more than posturing on all sides".

A spokesman said: "Given that the government overruled the council on cannabis reclassification, the entire exercise is doomed before it had begun."

'No safe dose'
As a Class A drug, the penalties for possession and supply are the most severe.

Possession carries a maximum sentence of up to seven years in prison, an unlimited fine or both. Dealers face a maximum jail term of life imprisonment, an unlimited fine or both.


Possession of Class B drugs carries a maximum prison sentence of five years, while dealing can attract a term of up to 14 years.

The Home Office has said ecstasy should stay in class A because there is no such thing as a "safe dose".

In May, Home Secretary Jacqui Smith announced plans to reclassify Cannabis as a Class B drug.
This was despite the council stating it should remain as Class C.

[Lunar Loops]

A new addition to the Audio archive:

Excerpt from BBC Radio 4's Today programme. Professor Colin Blakemore, a member of the independent UK Drug Policy Commission, and Dr Philip Murphy, of Edge Hill University discuss whether the illegal drug is more dangerous than alcohol.

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/loc...id=127&id=5937

[Wierd Logic]

I don't think the Government will listen, at least at any time soon. However, the progress will hopefully set wheels in motion for the future...

[KomodoMK]

It amazes me! Where do these people get their ideas and statistics from? I think they must just pull them out of the air.

The comment about 'no safe dose' just infuriates me because that is complete bullshit. There are prescription medicines out there which are far more dangerous that Ecstasy will ever be. I also thought it was 10 deaths a year for Ecstasy related in the UK, with 2 in every 100,000 people having a severe reactions. Peanuts kill more people that Ecstasy.

Ecstasy is a relatively safe drug on the scale of things, if it's pure MDMA, it's adulterants and uninformed/idiotic users that cause the problems.

[Lunar Loops]

Originally Posted by KomodoMK

It amazes me! Where do these people get their ideas and statistics from? I think they must just pull them out of the air.

The comment about 'no safe dose' just infuriates me because that is complete bullshit. There are prescription medicines out there which are far more dangerous that Ecstasy will ever be. I also thought it was 10 deaths a year for Ecstasy related in the UK, with 2 in every 100,000 people having a severe reactions. Peanuts kill more people that Ecstasy.

Ecstasy is a relatively safe drug on the scale of things, if it's pure MDMA, it's adulterants and uninformed/idiotic users that cause the problems.

Now there's the nub of the issue and also the fact that they say the deaths involved the use of ecstasy, not caused. It's like saying "deaths invloving the use of tea" (bit of an extreme I know, but to illustrate the point) in that the victim may have drank tea prior to their death, but it actually may have had nothing to do with the death.

Amazing how you can manipulate figures to your own ends.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good point

[guldenat]

250,000 people take ecstasy a month... that's 3 mil a year. 50 deaths a year involving ecstasy... I don't know about you, but those numbers sound pretty good to me. Anyone have the numbers of how many people in the UK drink every month verse how many are involved in drinking related deaths?

These officials need to take their heads out of their collective ass.

[KomodoMK]

There are 500 drink driving related deaths every year on UK roads. Not sure how many people drink drive though, can you even give a figure for that?

[guldenat]

I doubt it... not passed an estimate anyway. And you can be damn sure more than 250,000 brits are drinking in a month.

[Routemaster Flash]

"The body that advises the government on illegal drugs is meeting to discuss whether ecstasy should be downgraded from a Class A drug to Class B"

It's on the BBC News website at the moment, I can't post the link because I'm a n00b.

The Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs has recommended that MDMA be downgraded in the UK to Class B. Whether this is likely to happen is up for debate:

"Senior police officers have written to The Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs urging it to leave ecstasy as a Class A drug, the BBC has learned..."

...since the ACMD seems to be exist mainly so the government can ignore them. Jacqui Smith recently announced that cannabis is to become Class B once again (how many of you knew that, eh?) in direct contradiction of a study the ACMD released two years ago, in which they placed weed (and ecstasy - along with GHB and acid!) in the 'least harmful' of three broad categories, rated on both physical harm and addiction potential - heroin and cocaine were in the 'most harmful' group and, tellingly, alcohol and tobacco were in the intermediate group.

The cannabis reclassification is almost certainly due to the ludicrous "25-times stronger" claim that's been all over the headlines in the last few years - just goes to show the extent of the tabloidocracy we live in these days. So don't go holding your breath over MDMA being downgraded any time soon. *sigh*

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Good read
	"tabloidocracy" - perfect!

[Nacho]

Here's the link to the article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7636896.stm


I think it's funny how they try to make it sound really dangerous. It's misuse of the drug that makes it dangerous (dehydration and such) and how it's dirty. MDMA itself when used correctly is pretty safe.

[PingoTango]

It's worth bearing in mind that the government didn't listen to the ACMD when they recommended against reclassifying cannabis to a class B, so there's no reason why they should listen now either.

They'd much rather take their advice on these issues from the Association of Chief Police Officers and hysterical parents groups...

[nick23]

Originally Posted by PingoTango

It's worth bearing in mind that the government didn't listen to the ACMD when they recommended against reclassifying cannabis to a class B, so there's no reason why they should listen now either.

They'd much rather take their advice on these issues from the Association of Chief Police Officers and hysterical parents groups...

As I pointed out some time ago Vernon Coaker has already stated that no matter what the ACMD discovers and reports,there will be NO change in the governments position on reclassifying e.

Drug policy has NOTHING to do with an evidence base.

[Alfa]

The ACMD knows that as well. BUT, as it has already gone on collision course over the cannabis reclassification and have threatened to collectively resign, the ACMD may be able to cause some serious problems. It is not just some bunch of advisers but people with serious weight.

Without the ACMD its advise, it is hard for the government to ban new drugs. Last year the ACMD advised GBL to be scheduled and as a result it will be. This year it advised 26 steroids to be classed as a medicine. It is likely that they will be.

[davestate]

Originally Posted by Alfa

Last year the ACMD advised GBL to be scheduled and as a result it will be. This year it advised 26 steroids to be classed as a medicine. It is likely that they will be.

Christ, when did this happen?! Have you got a link, and does this mean GBL wont be able to be purchaced?

[Alfa]

All ACMD files are available in the file archive. Simply click on the 'documents' tab above and search for 'ACMD'.

[KomodoMK]

The ACMD won't be doing us any real favour as they are not pushing for legalization, but I think I can speak for the majority of people here when I say that we would all be much happier and respectful of a classification system that actually reflects the true harm (both to user and society) rather than an ad-hoc system that actually has no real factual relevance and created by bigots who have no understanding of drugs or their culture.

[Heretic.Ape.]

Leading article: A sensible drugs policy
The Independent
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...cy-944067.htmlSaturday, 27 September 2008

Another rancorous row about the classification of illegal drugs is looming. The Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs met yesterday in London to discuss whether ecstasy should be downgraded from Class A to Class B. Experts will present evidence to the organisation's panel and a report will be issued next year.

The incoming head of the ACMD, Professor David Nutt, has pointed out that ecstasy is less harmful than cocaine or heroin, which would support the case for reclassification. But senior police officers have written to the council warning that ecstasy should remain a Class A drug. The Home Office has also made it clear that it sees no case for a reclassification.

It is not hard to foresee where this process is likely to end. The Government set a precedent earlier this year by ignoring the recommendation of the ACMD over the classification of cannabis and returning that drug to the Class B category. But the arguments for a different approach to dealing with ecstasy is strong.

Ecstasy is certainly not harmless, and there are clear examples where it is linked to the deaths of users. But the threat it poses to health certainly does not merit it being bracketed with heroin and crack cocaine, which kill far more. The fact is that the present rating system of harm suffers from a serious credibility problem.

For another thing, the present law is being flouted on a staggering scale. Possession of ecstasy, as a Class A narcotic, carries a maximum sentence of up to seven years and dealers can face life imprisonment. And yet it is estimated that some 250,000 people in England and Wales regularly take the drug.

There is an assumption, shared by many in the police, that downgrading a drug will encourage young people to take it, that it would send out an undesirable "message" to the public. But it need not be this way. If a reclassification is combined with public education and advertising campaigns warning of the risks of taking a narcotic, the overall message could still be negative. Social pressures can change or affect choices, as we have seen with the public smoking ban.

The reduction of social and physical harm ought to be the guiding principle towards drugs policy. This is the approach that has been recommended by, among others, the House of Commons' Select Committee on Science, the Academy of Medical Sciences and the UK Drug Policy Commission. If we want to make our drugs laws more respected and more effective, that is the road we need to go down. The reclassification of ecstasy would be a good first step on that journey.

[FuBai]

Originally Posted by Sunday Times

Breifing: Drug Class War

Experts began hearings last week into whether ecstacy should be downgraded to a class B drug - but the government already says no

THE ISSUE

Review begins investigating downgrading of ecstasy
Last week the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs (ACMD) began its review of the classification of the drug MDMA, more popularly known as ecstasy. More than 250,000 people are estimated to take the drug in Britain every month, with 54m tablets taken each year. It is currently classified as class A, alongside drugs such as crack cocaine and heroin, which means a conviction for possession can result in a seven-year prison sentence while those who sell the drug can be punished by life imprisonment and an unlimited fine. The council is hearing evidence from experts about the harmful effects of the drug and also the wider social costs of its use. It will make a recommendation to the government early next year


THE CASE FOR

Research says drug is safer than alcohol
The council is expected to recommend that ecstasy be downgraded to class B on the basis of research by its incoming chairman, Professor David Nutt. He published a report in the medical journal The Lancet that found that the drug is less harmful than alcohol and tobacco. The House of Commons science and technology committee has recommended that the classification of drugs should be based on the harm, both to individuals and society, that they cause. “Let’s treat people as adults, tell them the truth and hopefully work with them to minimise its use,” said Nutt. Professor Colin Blakemore, the former chief executive of the Medical Research Council, said that ecstasy was “at the bottom of the scale of harm”.


THE CASE AGAINST

Critics say long-term effects are unknown
The Home Office and the Association of Chief Police Officers have both advised that the classification of ecstasy should not be revised because there is no “safe dose” of the drug. According to the government’s drug advice service Frank, there have been 200 ecstasy-related deaths since 1996. Critics argue that claims that ecstasy is statistically safer than aspirin are fallacious because of the huge numbers of aspirin taken. Very little is known about the long-term effects of ecstasy because it has been in use for only a short period of time, having become popular in the dance music explosion of the early 1990s. However, a number of studies have suggested that the brain functions of regular users can be diminished


THE BIGGER PICTURE

Why employ experts if you ignore what they say?
The declaration by Jacqui Smith, the home secretary, that she will not accept a recommendation to reclassify ecstasy has added to concerns about the government’s rejection of expert advice. In May, Smith ignored the advice of the advisory council when she moved cannabis back into class B from C, to which it had been moved four years earlier. Martin Barnes, the chief executive of the charity DrugScope, said: “The message given by this decision is that drugs policy can be driven as much by political considerations, media headlines and scare stories as by the evidence.” Nutt has already said that the system of classification “undermines health education messages” because it is not transparent.

Article taken from the Sunday Times (28/07/08) via Times online, and is available here.

The following comments were attached to the article, and are posted here also for the sake of a partial examination of the public response to the article:

What most disgusts me is that Jacqui Smith said the reclassification “undermines health education messages”. Surely the fact that she is not taking the advice of experts undermines actually teaching the true harms, which may lead people to making uninformed decisions of what they choose to do or not
Oisin Haywood, Holywood, Northern Ireland
Familiarity doesn't breed contempt, that happens when a mummy contempt and a daddy contempt love each other very much.
Ignorance breeds ignorance.
Anthony, Manchester, Lancashire
What most disgusts me is that Jacqui Smith said the reclassification “undermines health education messages”. Surely the fact that she is not taking the advice of experts undermines actually teaching the true harms, which may lead people to making uninformed decisions of what they choose to do or not
Oisin Haywood, Holywood, Northern Ireland
ALL drugs are ultimately destructive. That people take them because the reality of their life is less than satisfactory is without doubt.
Unknown
The very real joy of waking each day and knowing that you are alive is unknown to almost all people. This is the problem politicians should be addressing.
Bryn Gerard, Liverpool, England
The fact that so many more people use MDMA than heroin despite them being in the same class says something really good about our own ability to make decisions based on risks and harm, rather than blindly following the most obvious divisions.
It'd be nice if the government gave us credit for it!
S Evans, Glasgow,
Morning Bill; coffee tea beer?
peter mckenna, liverpool,
Ecstasy has been a huge cultural influence on my generation and millions of people use it every weekend. To anybody under 45 it is the elephant in the room. It's communal empathic effects have created a genuine spiritual revival that the church could only dream of. Drugs are good, m'kay.
Robbie, Holsworthy, Devon
there are more alcohol and tabacoo related deaths each year than the total for ecstacy use. cannabis can lead to harder drugs and isnt as safe as its made out to be, the tar in resin is as dangerous as tobacoo and weed now contains pcp halucinogens. make your own choices, its all good bad.
s.howard, london,
Driving under the influence of ecstacy will be uncontrolable for a start ,so NO on that score for starters.
Familiarity breeds contempt, therefore it can be considered as a starter drug on the road to hard drug usage ,so No on that score as well.
No votes will be lost on this issue.
geert, Cape Town, South Africa
B J Deller, Marbella, Spain, with all due respect you say you do not need drugs, but you are a recreational drug user (alcohol) by you own admission. You are just the same as any recreational drug user, yet your drug is legal, this is the hypocrisy people who responsibly enjoy alternatives endure.
James, Cirencester, England
"Say NO to drugs"
Anybody with this view must support full prohibition of alcohol.
Another point while I'm here: if there were pubs in one street, hash cafes in another, and raves in another, where would the riot vans and paramedics be? End prohibition.
Richard James, Paignton, Devon
So you get your choice Bill of London, where is mine?
Ben R, Manchester,
Its very hard for me to try and involve school students with the idea that 'informed decision making', 'evidence based' decision making is fair and is the best a civiised society can aspire too,when governments choose to ignore it when it suits their pandering to special interest groups
Name withheld, Rhayader, Powis
What's the point of having an "Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs" if it's advice is never be taken? How much does it cost to maintain this apparently pointless body?

MickGJ, London,
I cant believe that medical advice on the grounds of MDMA is being ignored, yet... we are now going to be printing graphic images on cigarettes which cause conciderable damage! A PRODUCT WE CONTINUE TO SELL LEGALLY I MAY ADD!
Unkown
hmmm, anything to do with money MUCH?! Floored system.
MDMA, its all ok.
charlie, hextable, England
Don't be so naive. The Government draw millions in tax from alcohol and tobacco and have complete control over the industry. It's easy money for them regardless of whether or not they cause more harm than ecstasy. To even begin controlling the illegal drugs market would create a global urban war.
Aled, Pwllheli, North Wales
why do people always say that others pay for smokers and drinkers medical costs. massive taxes on these goods make them one of the largest tax contributers. how many billions are collected in duty ?
w james, inverness,
Billy Kang, you're living in the dark ages.
alan, London,
Despite the fact that this drug is particularly harmless, whose decision is it what goes into our bloodstream? Taking drugs should not be a crime, even if selling them is.
Sean, London,
Make it class B. It being class A hasn't exactly prevented people from taking it, nor with any other class A drug. If people want to take the drug, they will. Alcohol inflicts violence, where MDMA will not. Tobacco can have high cancer risks where cannabis may not.
charles antony stanton, Swanley, England
Agreed! MDMA may cause a feeling of distance and unenthusiasm the next day, but what about the people who suffer from raving hangovers enduced by alcohol?
I would much rather be walking down a MDMA ridden street, that walk down a dark path with a gang of drunken aggressors!

adam, Lemington, England
Face the hypocrisy. The most dangerous drugs when abused are alcohol and tobacco. If these are largely left to self regulation then where is the honesty in our drug legislation?
Jim Cole, falmouth, England
I agree with the knee-jerk moralists. I think the government should ban all morally questionable behavior - all drugs (including alcohol - let's go back to Prohibition), prostitution, even adultery. Who cares if ecstasy is harmless? Making it legal sends a bad message to our kids.
Billy Kang, Manila, Philippines
Say NO to drugs, end of story.
Bill, London,
I have never needed drugs (or alcohol in copious quantities) to make my life enjoyable except in the dentist's chair so I cannot understand why there is a need. Like smoking and drinking, others have to pay for the medical help needed later in life, so work it out on that.
B J Deller, Marbella, Spain
totally agree with the experts, to be honest if it is to be controlled - should be no higher than Class C. Anyone with access to medical databases such as medline and having read the reliable research over the last two decades should know its quite safe..taboo i know.
Nas Sid, Manchester,
Err, cannabis has not been reclassified yet. It's still up for parlimentary review.
Frank, London, UK