Would really appreciate some advice- withdrawals on suboxone

[gezza26]

Swim has recently started suboxone maintenance for addictions spanning on and off around 6 years. Heroin was the ultimate end point of this IV. Swim couldn't stop using despite the fact he spent $7,000 on it over half a year and almost caught hep c.

Swim was rapt to get in the sub program. Alls went well until now on week 3. He's on 8mg, and it's really kicking swim around. The dose feels ok straight after taking it, but some withdrawal symptoms creep though such as twitches, restlessness. Also swim is finding his moods all over the place, but is mostly going into a deep depression. It worked great for the first week, SWIM would have been content to feel like that the rest of his life, but it's just not working well anymore. He get headaches and quite often feel like I've dropped half a tab of acid.

Sorry getting to the point now. Swim will see his drug doc next week and is seriously contemplating methadone. He feels if it could give him a half normal life Swim would be very grateful. To be honest Swim feels at the end of his tether. Swim realises methadone would be for life. Have heard reports from some people who say when they are on the right dose they feel pretty good during the day, then sleep like a baby at night. Others who say it's the worse thing that ever happened to them. One man's treasure is anothers trash. Swim really, really just needs a bit of stabality and a good long time away from H. Please any swiy with any experiences would be very much appreciated as swim tries to make some very important decisions in his life

[piggyinthemiddle]

A friend of mine got clean for around 4 or 5 months about 7 years ago. Even after he was clean and KNEW he had no opiates in his system, he still felt occasional twitches, heat spikes, restlessness and some of the other more moderate withdrawal symptoms.If he didn't know for a fact that he was clean, he would have told you he was experiencing withdrawal pain.As for stabilising SWIY's habit, you said yourself different things work for different people. That friend of mine, has been taking methodone for nearly a year now, is stable, and feels ready to start reducing, with the intention of switching to buprenorphine when his dose is low enough. I wish you success, and hope my friend doesn't experience the same problems as you with suboxone. Perhaps you could let me know how it goes after you see you Doctor?

[gezza26]

As an update SWIM's actually getting better. I think he's learning how to properly absorb his suboxone. He lets it disolve for around 12 minutes then has nothing to drink or eat for a further 30. SWIM was suprised to find himself on the nod for 3 hours on the weekend! Actually felt great. SWIM can't reproduce this effect though. SWIM finds suboxone very hit and miss. Some days he's great, others not.Also SWIM switched his dose to mornings which seems more effective.

SWIM has a very fast metabolism and believes he needs spilt doses but is hard in Australia as SWIM has to go to the pharmacy and take it there for the first 3 months, before he gets take homes. SWIM will discuss if split doses are a possibility. SWIM notices the acid effect happens at the end of the dose when it stops holding him. SWIM is feeling pretty tired at work though, but its not too bad. SWIM will report back after seeing the doc on Thursday

[beena]

Firstly, I don't think SWIM has been using as long as you have so that might be important to mention. SWIM is a heavy crack user and has been for eight years but heroin and other opiates/pain meds have only been a problem in the last couple of years (SWIM started using them to come down off the crack but then decided she liked them a bit too much on their own).
SWIM got sick of feeling sick and two months ago went on methadone programme which at first was the best thing that could've happened to her. It was all going ok for a while: SWIM stabilised on 50mls and was going regularly to the clinic to pick up/take her meds. But old habits die hard and soon SWIM drifted back into drug-taking. I think the main problem was the crack: the methadone did help a lot with cravings for heroin and SWIM felt physically fine but of course her crack use wasn't being addressed so she started craving for that and gave in to temptation. Everytime she would buy crack she would buy heroin partly to comedown and partly just out of habit. Then SWIM started missing days at the clinic (methadone is supposed to last 48 hours if you take it regularly but sometimes SWIM would miss one day and the next she would be almost crawling to the clinic cos she felt so ill - SWIM has spoken to other addicts who also have experienced this so I don't think it's uncommon).
Then SWIM started to go into a deep depression - it was horrible.
Six days ago SWIM came off her methadone (her decision) by using morphine tablets. Today is day six and SWIM is rattling somewhat even with the morphine but these last six days SWIM has stuck to her guns and avoided using heroin, crack or methadone so all in all she thinks she has made the right decision.
SWIM thinks what works is different for everyone and she certainly wouldn't suggest that you rule out methadone as an option. But please be aware that any of these things only work if you don't top up, ie use other substances on top. Also SWIM thinks depression probably accompanies withdrawal from opiates whether you use methadone, suboxone or whatever. The best way of dealing with it is to keep SWIY-self busy, build up a solid support network so as SWIY isn't going through it alone and don't lose sight of SWIY's ultimate goals.
Today SWIM made a list of all the reasons why she wants to stop using crack-cocaine and heroin and she has written these up onto a little card small enough to carry around with her at all times. Whenever SWIM feels weak she is going to pull out this card and read it to herself to remind her of why she's going through this and how much better her life will ultimately be when she is clean and rid of addiction.
SWIM wishes SWIY the best and really hopes SWIY is able to work out what is the right option(s) for SWIY. Good Luck.

[piggyinthemiddle]

Gezza,


on the subject of what you desribed as " that acid feeling", you said you noticed it toward the end of the dose as it started to wear off. If it makes you feel better, A.F.O.M has noticed the same effects when he is starting to withdraw from Heroin, so I doubt it is related directly to the Subbys.

[gezza26]

[quote=beena;461296]But old habits die hard and soon SWIM drifted back into drug-taking.quote]

Hmm SWIM fears if he went on methadone those old habits could come back too. With subs, there's not point doing H. Also SWIM doesn't really feel clean. He always been quite opiate sensitive, so the subs do actually give him a buzz when they're working. He's also heard reports of some people on high doses prefering it to H. With other really heavy users, or opiate insensitves they probably just feel normal.

He's also addicted to the lifestyle of scoring, shooting up in housing estates and dodging the police. He then goes home to plasma tv, xbox 360 and 9 to 5 job. Theres a duality in his personality. It's like an alter ego, SWIM has to get under control before he completely takes over.

SWIM can't really bare detox right now though, so it's either subs or methadone at this point he thinks it will be for life. He's 26 and most of those years have been a losing battle with opiates. He wants to at least stabilise with "legal dope" to avoid the 4 d's. Death, disintergration, detention, and/or disease.

P.S. In regards to the "acid effect" SWIM also notices that coming off H, but not so much other opiates.

P.P.S. SWIM wish he could just fast forward to he's meeting with the doc as 8mg is not holding him!!

[Spyder]

Just a quick comment regarding the thought of , "Methadone for life"

Whether that is true or not, whatever the path to Methadone was, the doctor at swiS's clinc told him, "Our goal is to give you your life back, and stop the constant rollar coaster life that the addiction gives you"

He also pointed out to think of it as a disease...One that needs medication. Maybe the future will hold a totally drug free existance, but for now lets get back to living again.

This has always stuck with swiS and anytime he gets down thinking he's trapped/chained to the Methadone, he thinks about the alternative lifestyle and where he could be instead.....He always feels better after that.

S

[gezza26]

Yeah SWIM gets depressed about the prospect of meds for life, but as long as the side effects aren't that horrible, it doesn't cost a fortune and it's doing SWIY some good well theres nothing to be too depressed about. People have it much worse.

[doublezero]

methadone is not for life unless you want it to be for life, i cut down every few days by 1ml or 2ml, i was on 60ml, and swims cut down to 35ml in a couple of months, yes its going to be hard to come off it completely but not impossible

when using drugs u get a contact habbit as well, dealers and undercover cops get the contact habit that dont use, this includes the risk of scoring, being around junkies, getting funds for drugs (even going to the cash machine)and the ritual of using your drugs of choice.

I'm quite lucky, i put my nervous energy (the feeling like being on acid or stimulants whilst givin up opiates) into songs, writing and other arts. I look at my years on opiates and most of all the other drugs as a social project. Its inspired alot of songs, and to be honest I'm exactly where i am before i started using, maybe a few steps back but i'm heading forward alot stronger and wiser and in a psoition where i can help people with the experience i have,,,,,,, helping people gives u a nice release of dopamine a proper chemical hit u can reuse by just thinking of that act of help..

doublezero added 4 Minutes and 55 Seconds later...

Death Revival.

Don’t panic mate, there’s no need to hurry

Your about to do something rash, you will be sorry

You’ve been burning out your frontal lobe

A blackened mess, a polluted globe

A reflection of the planet of ours

You can’t blame me, it’s for my art

Constructing the great plan of destruction

And terror has become my main attraction

More news of Madness, loss and religious sadness

There will be revenge, THERE will be revenge

More news of Madness, loss and religious sadness

There will be revenge, THERE will be revenge

Living on a sphere it’s smothered with fear

But hope trips on and here it belongs

Never a second will pass, when a god don’t take his victim

But hope trips on, and here it belongs

Blood is thicker than water, but mud is thicker than blood

Blood is thicker than water, but mud has polluted my blood

Blood is thicker than water, but mud is thicker than blood

Blood is thicker than water, but mud has polluted my blood

Do you know what you are doing, or did you fall all this way

I knew exactly what I was doing, and yes I fell all this way

Positives and negatives, truths and untruths

Hooks, circles and cycles forever changing

Heaven sent but hell had bent

A twisted brain that thinks for both sides

Heaven sent but hell had bent

Its a twisted brain, do you think on both sides

The end is insight, the end is coming closer

A breath from a friend, life still slips away

The end is insight and I’m too young to die

A breath from a friend, life begins, I will not die

Why am i still here and your still there

Maybe it’s luck and your just unlucky

Why am i still here and your still there

Maybe it’s luck and your just unlucky

Abusing my body I tortured myself

Years of tar and chemical attacks

A battle ground, my body of war

A battle ground, my body it tore

[gezza26]

That's really nice doublezero. SWIY has a talent SWIM like's the part about SWIY's body being a battlefield. SWIM can relate to that. Also SWIM does feel like these experiences of the dark side and sometimes the beauty also are a great learning experience and do make you wise. SWIM has a question for SWIY though. Does methadone hold SWIY long enough? SWIM might change at sometime in the future, but imagine will only get single doses at the pharmacy. SWIM has a fast metabolism and worries methadone wouldn't hold him till the next day.

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by gezza26

........SWIM has a fast metabolism and worries methadone wouldn't hold him till the next day.

The last time SwiS was considering an increase, telling the Doctor that towards the evening/night he feels the dose is not "Holding" (SwiS gets his dose daily at 5am). Before allowing an increase, swiS clinic Doctor made him try a "Split-Dose".

For this "Split-Dose", SwiS would go at 5am and get 1/2 of his daily dose, along with a 'take-home' bottle with the other half. The Doctor said that swiS may need to 'spread' out his intake, rather than the large dosage at once. At first, SwiS thought this was a great idea......

HE HATED IT!!!! After 2-3 weeks he saw the Doctor and asked to be put back to once a day. The Doctor did, along with swiS's increase (Currently on 115 mg).

The biggest problem with the split-dosage was Mental. From the moment that swiS left the clinic with his bottle, he began to consider taking it. His mind played crazy tricks on him, he would think...."Shit, this 1/2 isn't getting the job done at all....I better take the other half."

Sometimes he would make it a couple hours, sometimes only a few minutes. Any opiate addict with them in his hand will definatly know what swiS is talking about.

Bottomline, find a dosage that is comfortable/stable for swiY (Everyone is different, so don't base it on someone else) and stick to it. Tolerance isn't a big issue with Methadone. Many people on maintenance programs go for 20years or more on the same dose, stable the entire time, and Forget about Split-Dosing! (Unless swiY have that whole "Mind over Matter" thing mastered...

Good luck...S

[doublezero]

swims been on methadone for 14 months, 50mg first week, then 60mg after that, if i forgot to take it i'd start getting withdraw after 26/27 hours, so it held swim quite well. After 4-6 months of being stable, swim decided to cut down, very small amounts at first 1ml every few weeks. Then stopped cutting down wen swim got 2 50ml for a few weeks, then a little bit more again after that. Swims now on 35ml and will stay on this level 4 a week and decrease the amount swim takes by 0.5ml every 4 days.

Aparently the last 10ml's is the hardest 2 cut down. So will maybe use some kratom or poppy tea, opium 2 com off the last 10mls

Swims come off of subutex with a gradual decrease. Swim has bi-polar and stopping the subutex made swim a bit high and restless and the decrease of methadone is doing the same thing, so its important for swim 2 channel his energy into things.

The psycology swiy's apply's is very important, get a natural buzz from giving up drugs that has fuct up or denied your life from moving on. Apreciate the air swiy breathes and concentrate on the good things that giving up drugs will allow swiy to do. Take advantage of the natural chemicals your brain and body will be experience.

Exercise if u feel upto makes u feel good, good food and start socialising again with the so called 'normal people'. Even in mundane situations, talk to the shop keeper, being nice 2 people and being helpful releases some good chemicals.

Swim was lucky enough 2 have the money 2 buy a playstation at the point i gave up h. Video games were a big part of the day and passed the boredom, swim also read quite alot and messed around on the guitar and computer. swim started 2 go out socially quite alot, which meant drinking, swim new this could leed to another problem so swim only drunk 2 nights a week. But it meant new people and GURLS, swim hadnt had much sex whilst on h, so sex was exciting...........just dont go out expecting to get laid, cuz the disapointment can lead u back to h...

Anyway, hope any of that will help anyone. goodluck people

Reputation Comments on this post:

good suggestions, thanks for sharing swiys experiences

[moda00]

I am glad things are getting better.. if swiy continues to have withdrawal it is quite possible that s/he needs to dose more than once a day, and/or increase the dose. Suboxone is effective up to the 30-some mg range, where the ceiling kicks in, so if one is at 8 mg there is definitely room for improvement if that dose is not completely overcoming the withdrawal.

Methadone is a good option if the suboxone does not work, ie. if one's tolerance is so high that even the higher doses of subs do not eliminate withdrawal, but my advice would be to continue with the subs and try splitting the dose (when swim was on subs she took it 2 or 3 times throughout the day) and if that doesn't do the trick, try increasing. Maintenance medication needs to be dosed adequately in order to work, and being in withdrawal is not conducive to recovery, so keep working with swiy's doc and maybe keep a log of symptoms to see when they are occurring and to what extent so the doctor can better evaluate what is going on. Also realize that some anxiety and stress accompanies getting off opiates no matter what, it's a big change, and one has to relearn how to cope and live without using. The goal should definitely be to eliminate the withdrawals and get stabilized, but realize that it will take time for one's body and brain to get used to being sober and for swiy to start feeling 100%. Hope that helps.

[rxpo1111]

here's my opinion. I have tried both. Personally I like the suboxone more as a maintenance drug, because i am more functional. The methadone to me is way more intense, it will last all day no doubt, and it's a better recreational buzz, and yeah if swim goes that route, it's for life.

[gezza26]

SWIM has been on both subs and methadone. Personally SWIM finds methadone a better drug. Subs used to play around with SWIM emotionally. Meaning he felt restless sometimes, depressed and sad sometimes, up and high rarely (usually straight after the dose). At first methddone was not a happy marriage. His dose was too high, which lead to him feeling like night of the living dead zombie. After slowly decreasing the dose, SWIM finds he gets a nice motovational buzz in the morning, feels pretty good throughout the day, then sleeps like a baby at night. Also there's vastly less cravings and it holds him much better. SWIM realises this could be for life, but hell it's not so bad really. People suffer vastly worse fates.

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by moda00

.......Suboxone is effective up to the 30-some mg range, where the ceiling kicks in........

Nice post swiModa & good info.....SwiS is just curious about this statment (quoted about, re: 30mg ceiling) ? SwiS dosn't doubt swiY, but has never seen any info about any "Ceiling" and would like to learn some more about it....

First, 30mg is apx. 4x - 8mg pills or 15x - 2mg's. Is the ceiling associated w/ the Naloxone(Blocker) in the pills OR just a fact of the pills ???

If it has something to do w/ the blocker/additives, does Subutex or just generic Buprenorphine have the same type of ceiling effect????

A very very common misconception of Suboxone is that the Blocker is added to stop the use of other opiates while on them, when it was actually incorporated to block the abuse of the Suboxone themselves.

Thanks again swiMod, look forward to any info swiY may have.......


On another note:

Originally Posted by rxpo1111

......if swim goes that route {Methadone}, it's for life.

SwiS does agree, Methadone is a serious commitment. But - Saying it's for life (Especially when giving someone advice about it) puts it in a bad light.

Given, many stay on Methadone for years, if not lifetimes. SwiS is just saying, an honest desire/willpower/motivation with proper support/environment - Successfully following a Methadone maintenance program, reducing, and finally quitting are very possible.

Most people stay either because it's just easier or they got frustrated because of failed detox attempts.

Most all failed detox attemps are because of too fast reduction. Patients that reduce more than a few mg per month or stop before reducing to a proper low dose, will usually fail (Statisticly)....

One other thing, the recommended path: Follow this slow reduction, when totally stopped the patient immediatly goes to a rehab facility, or at a bare minimum check-in w/ some type of outpatient rehab center.

If one follows the process as it's designed, chances of success are much higher. It is usually the 'shortcuts' that get people frustrated and right back at the clinic.

Granted....This is MUCH easier said than done...SwiS has been going for 3+ years now. When SwiS started the Doctor said the goal was to give ones life back, not necessarily to be totally drug-free. Well, swiS's pretty much got his life back....Which would not have been possible w/o this program. When it comes to detox, swiS's just not sure what he will do if anything...Time will tell.

Anyway, just wanted to say Methadone dosn't have to be a life sentenance. In swiS's case, the + was much more than the - , but everyones different....to the OP...SwiY will find swiYour way, be patient, don't let short term frustration lead to long term failure...Good Luck..
S

[chillinwill]

All opiates work their magic in the brain by binding to neural receptors called opioid receptors. These receptors can be thought of as key holes, and drugs such as heroin (or any opiates) can be thought of as keys. When heroin floods the brain – these "keys" enter the receptors "the keyholes" and turn them on. Once these receptors are activated – all of the effects of the opiate are unleashed – and the user will feel euphoria, analgesia, etc. Basically, turning the key gets you high.

Suboxone belongs to a third class of drugs, called the partial agonists.
These partial agonists are "keys" very much like the agonists, and they do fit in the receptors and turn them on. They are called partial agonists, however, as they can only turn these receptors on partially.
Suboxone for example, will fit the opiate receptor key holes and will turn these on a little bit, producing some typical opiate effects and sensations. It is only a partial agonist though, as it has a fairly low ceiling – that is, at a certain point, taking more of the drug will not increase the effects felt. It can only turn the keys a small amount and once you fill all the key-holes, taking more of the drug won’t increase the effects.

[JaWill88]

yes the ceiling effect is for buprenorphine. the blocker has nothing to do with it. swim used to be on suboxone and now is on methadone (just got on a few days ago). swim was on suboxone for a couple years. anyways suboxone has a long half life, about 37 hours. if swiy doesn't feel too good swiy just needs to up the dose. dosing twice a day is by no means necessary to stay well. in fact it takes a few days without suboxone to really get into withdrawal. swim was taking two doses a day for most of the time. one dose is going to hold as long as it's enough, but the two doses was just for comfort reasons. swim agrees suboxone is a hit and miss. sometimes swim felt completely normal, and sometimes he got high. especially when taking 32mg a day (16mg morning, 16mg afternoon). he often got pretty high on second dose. anyways it really is not good to go into methadone thinking it's for life. in swims opinion that kind of thinking will lead nowhere good. it's like already giving up. on another note, methadone is definately much more like a traditional opioid. it can feel just like muscling heroin or whatever. basically doing dope without the rush. swim notices he gets

JaWill88 added 21 Minutes and 12 Seconds later...

yes buprenorphine (suboxone, subutex, ect.) has a ceiling effect. it has nothing to do with the blocker. as stated above the only thing the naloxone in suboxone is for, is to deter people from injecting as naloxone is not absorbed into the bloodstream taken sublingually, but is active when injected.

swim was on suboxone for about 2 years and is now on methadone, he just started a couple days ago. suboxone has a long half life (about 37 hours) so it will definately hold one long enough if the dose is right. methadone's half life is definately shorter. suboxone is dosed twice a day sometimes but more for mental satisfaction than anything as if the dose is right, it holds for a long time. in fact it takes a few days to really get into withdrawal. swim took two doses of suboxone a day for most of the time on it. swim agrees suboxone is defiantely hit or miss. sometimes he was completely normal, and other times he got high. especially when on 32mg suboxone per day (16mg in moring, and 16mg in the afternoon). he often got high on his second dose of the day.

having not even taken methadone and already thinking it is for life is some bad thinking in swims opinion. especially at a young age like ourselves. we have much, much more life ahead of us if we don't kill oursleves with stupid shit like dope. if swiy plans on staying on for life he probably shouldn't go on. btw heroin withdrawals are a walk in the park compared to buprenorphine and methadone withdrawals. swiy may want to reconsider if he hasn't been on suboxone for too long. it is insane getting off. withdrawals lasts months. it only gets harder with time. swim really, really regrets going on these maintenance medications, but swim had no idea how bad suboxone was to get off. his doctor told him there was no withdrawals. just something to consider. good luck.

oh yeah methadone is much more like a traditional opioid compared to buprenorphine. much more sedation, euphoria, itching, small pupils, impairment, ect. swim imagines it is going to be really hard to get off. there are two reasons swim got on methadone 1. swim doesn't pay anything for it, compared to suboxone which is retardedly expensive and 2. he is going to jail for at least a few months and doesn't want to detox in there. suboxone is not allowed but methadone is. swim plans on getting off with poppy tea to have a normal 1 week withdrawal instead a withdrawal that could last for months. just swims opinion. the stuff can help, but swim thinks in the long run it's definately not worth it. swim hopes this could be a little bit of help for anyone considering getting on these maintenance medications. they are just plain bad news.

[Dickon]

A strange uncle once whispered the following nonsense in my ear. I've really no idea why I'm repeating it here....

Folks, I think we've got a hobgoblin lurking this forum and this hobgoblin has the effect of making everybody terrified of methadone. Oooohhhhhh I hear people say, "ahhhhh....if I take methadone I'll never ever be able to quit. That's totally impossible, unrealistic, takes forever, etc. etc.". Well I'm simply going to have to disavail you all of your hobgoblin-induced delusions: methadone withdrawal is far from impossible. I'm not just gassing in a vague abstract way, I'm talking 8 days away from the stuff after cutting down from 225mg to 5mg (roughly 5mg a day. Exactly 5mg/day from 145mg down) and then jumping off. Sure I'd rather have had a beach holiday, but it's only a bloody withdrawal, just like any other really. I'm into day 8 and I got 5 hours or so sleep last night (the first real nights sleep in a week or so) and I still feel weak. But I'm over the worst of it. If I were quitting heroin or morphine I'd not be feeling that different now.

I have only once taken bupe and hated it, so I can't comment on it's utility from a first hand basis. But where is the SCIENTIFIC, peer reviewed evidence that it's better to switch from Methadone to Bupe and then come off, rather than taper the methadone? It seems you're just replacing one w.d. with two: first when you switch, and then when you come off. Please could someone wise explain this to me. It's so ubiquitous, and I'm worried it's simply fadism and not based on sound science. I think someone's altered that old UK RSPCA ad: "Methadone is for life, not just for Christmas" (originally "A dog". It's an old anti-cruelty ad). No, Methadone is not for life, it's hard to quit, but so is heroin, morphine et. al. (and, from what I've learned, Bupe).

Best of luck whatever you decide but make sure you get the facts right before you make your decision.

Dr D

[doublezero]

your defently right dickon.swim hasnt noticed any ill feelings from slow methadone reduction. i'm down to 28ml, cut down 1ml every 3 days. wen i get to 20ml i'll reduce 0.5ml every 3days. then 0.25 wen i'm under 10ml, n a bit less wen i get lower.

I've got a very active brain/mind and ive never noticed any dumbing down.

Drug clinics spread the fear and weak and strong people that r getting off drugs are very diseptibable to psychosamatic thoughts. my drug clinic didnt want me to cut down. although it was a big part of my life, i still kept other interests.

Subuxone i found easier to come off of than i am finding methadone. get a variation of sized tablets. cut a little bit off a tablet, then 3 or 4 days later cut a little bit more off of it.

[Dickon]

^ ^ ^ ^

An old frog ribbeted out this to me once....I think it's a song.....

Keep us abreast of how the taper's going. I have one friend who did a really long taper (18 months from 90-0) and said it was painless.

Simply don't tell your drug-people. I didn't tell mine. I'm rather looking forwards to going in on Friday in 2 1/2 weeks time to see my drug worker. I'm just going to shred the scripts she gives me in front of her! Say good bye politely (she's very nice and I have no beef with her) and wish her all the best. I think it will be a useful lesson for her in fact.

Good luck!

[doublezero]

swims drug worker and doctor wanted him to stay on 60ml. then a few days ago,phoned them up and changed the script to30ml,swim has a good stock of juice, just incase theres a war, natural disaster, proper economical breakdown...mayans predicted 2012 will be holy shit. nasa confirmed that our solarsystem is going to be horizontallt level with the black hole in the middle of our galaxy between 2008-2015. are galactic callender ends and resets every 16000 years. apparently theres goin to be alot of natural disasters, volcanos and space rocks, and possibly the polar flip,,,,,,,,in any case, its nice to have a back up of medicine you rely on.

swim has bi-polar and the only thing he noticed when he came off subys, was an elevation his mood, was quite high and a bit restless............if swim cut's down a little too much ml of meth, he gets the same elavation of mood. Swim sleeps ok when cutting down, maybe sleeps slightly less but still a good sleep. this is probably due to the fact swim is on antipsycotic medication.

Avoid drinking too much coffee, no caffien is best. it makes u cluck a bit more. drink plenty of liquids, and eat as much as u can. If your feeling cold, go for a walk with plenty of thin layers of clothing, and take them off as your body genarates heat.

anyway,,,,wish any withdrawlers and taper downers luck.........most importantly dont rush,its not a race. Even if it takes a year or 2 or even 3 or more....if u do rush it, dont get pissed off if u have to do a little extra or go back to the same dose you were on the few days before.

good luck

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks for your good information

[MarkyMayhem]

SWIM wants to second the notion that methadone certialy isn't for life. SWIM used H heavily from 17 - 21, even moving cross-country to live in Chicago. Ended up on methadone 60mgs for 2 years, tapered to 10 mgs and jumped off with essentially no WDs except for some mental freakouts for a day or two. SWIM had 2 months clean, went out for a week and got immediatly on suboxone. Started at 24mgs/day got off within 6 months, again no real WD or the dreaded PAWS. SWIM then got over a year clean, and told himself if he ever needed to he would go on suboxone or methadone again in a minute. Well, SWIM went out again and ended up on Suboxone again. SWIM used it properly for a while, and eventually began just using it as insurance, using subs just to stay well etc.
SWIM realized what he was doing was not working, and began reading all the message boards etc. about methadone. SWIM totally ignored his own previous experience with methadone and fell in to the thinking of "It's for life" or "It's a worse kick than H" etc. and talked himself out of going back to the clinic for MONTHS because of straight fear of the suposed unknown. SWIM finally went back, and once got his dose stable at 60mgs is feeling great, has a total blockade effect going, and can easily ignore the desire to use. SWIM was thinking HARD about getting off. Then realized why, and more importantly, why now? SWIM knows he needs more time away from 'the life' before he even thinks about getting off. Horror stories aside, SWIM did it before with no trouble, and can do it again, when and if SWIM is ready.
SWIY can and should do the same thing. It WILL stabilize your life, allow you to focus on something other than staying well, and allow you to change your behavior. We've spent SO much time ignoring tomarrow in favor of getting right today, why should getting well be any different? You can get off, when you're ready. If you think you need it, you probablly do.

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