Effects - LSD Tolerance

[Niteflights]

I wonder what it is about LSD that imposes the immediate and quite strong tolerance for several days to a week or more, with full tolerance taking about a month to return to baseline. I was told by a quite educated chemist once that in vivo LSD behaves as a catalyst and most of the psychedelic effects experienced actually take place after it has been almost entirely metabolized to inactive components.

This does make sense in light of the fact that whatever is happening during an LSD experience is somehow depleting neurochemical potential to trip so that it can not be repeated with even massive doses until the balance is restored.

Do DOC and the other high potency PEAs (1-3mg activity) exhibit a similar type of tolerance profile as LSD? Although the RC tryptamines cause some tolerance it is nowhere near the intensity and duration of LSD. SWIM finds that most of them can be used on consecutive days, not that this is recommended. It makes sense that because their active doses are typically 100 time higher than LSD that they don't share the same catalytic activity and thus exhibit lower tolerance thresholds.

Anyone care to comment?
Cheers,
Andrei

[frankie_DJ]

hi,

My buddy wanted to try some for the first time and got some not so good stuff. He did some last Friday: hardly any effect.

He took twice the amount on Wednesday, five days later: same annoying neither high not straight feeling.

So he went and complained to his connection, and the connection promissed to take my buddy to a person that has real stuff on Saturday (3 days after the last ingestion) so he can finaly get the real taste.

But now my buddy isn't so sure if he should do it so early, due to the tolerance issue. The acid he's done was obviously crappy, but still, should the tolerance be a problem? My buddy's kind of impatient and annoyed cause he's been wanting to try this stuff for a while now.

Any thoughts?

[Nagognog2]

Tolerance to LSD25 lasts at least a week - according to those intrepid pioneers in the field from the 1960's who did every trick in the book to try to overcome this fact. So at least a week should elapse before "buddy" attempts it again.

Tell "buddy" to be very careful about upping the dosage. A huge amount of what is circulating under the name LSD is not as advertised. There are several DOx compounds being put out on blotter paper. And there was a huge flood of DOB in the form of tiny, purple pills. While taking several hits of actual LSD on blotter would likely do no harm - taking a larger amount of 3, 4, 5 hits of a DOx molecule could land "buddy" in the hospital.

[Deadbolt]

I know this has been covered before, but this question is slightly different. Swim consumed half a piece of blotter tuesday afternoon, of mild strength. Swim plans to drop two hits of the same cid Saturday morning (4 days later), and wonders what his tolerance will be like. Will the low dosage of the initial trip rule out any massive tolerance?

thanks in advance.

[CrookedEye]

SWIM is of the belief that over a week or more is best.. SWIM has always noticed that the longer the abstinence, the better the trip.. When waiting a month, it was always better than a week, and so forth, at least for SWIM..

[mouthwater]

Are you suggesting that one would have a month of tolerance, or, that the experience is more rewarding simply because one practiced temperance?

[Jatelka]

See here...

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...14&postcount=7

and here...

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...22&postcount=4

[mouthwater]

"Aquired rapidly, within 3 days. Tolerance dissipates equally rapidly, without withdrawal, craving, or symptoms of addiction. Cross-tolerance has been reported with some other indole-hallucinogens such as Psilocybin, but this document erroneously reported cross-tolerance with N,N-DMT, which is not likely and has not been shown."

-http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_faq.shtml#tolerance


SWIM personally hasn't noticed much or any tolerance beyond three days, but I wouldn't be surprised if other people's tolerance lasted slightly longer.

[CrookedEye]

SWIM used to eat LSD every 3 days, but his tolerance grew rapidly.. He began eating well over 50 hits at a time of LSD, while most people were tripping fine off of 1 or 2.. Even by waiting a week, SWIM noticed he could still eat quite large doses.. Only by waiting several weeks at a time, did SWIM actually begin to recapture the original intensity of his trips.. For the casual LSD user, a week should be plenty, however, for heavy LSD users, the longer between trips, the more intensely one reacts..

[mr. strawberry]

i figured after 3 days it was ok to do it again. if it had affect it wasnt that noticable it still worked. especially if SWIY takes that much more of it, you should be fine.

[bottlekop]

To add to this; can tollerance to LSA (morning glory seeds as the source) cause tollerance to LSD-25? - sorry if this has already been asked; I didn't see it when I searched(might have missed it though).

[CrookedEye]

Originally Posted by bottlekop

To add to this; can tollerance to LSA (morning glory seeds as the source) cause tollerance to LSD-25? - sorry if this has already been asked; I didn't see it when I searched(might have missed it though).

Yes, many, if not all, indoles and tryptamines exhibit some bit of cross tolerance, in SWIM's experience..

[Jatelka]

^^^ SWIJ can't find any info through the beloved SE on this one either. Anyone know?

[Nagognog2]

It would certainly seem more than likely - though I've drawn a blank as well. Probably due to the fact that most people who have a source for Lsd-25 don't bother with morning glory seeds or HBWR. Until they run out.

[mouthwater]

"My Tapir" seems to have difficulty tripping off both LSD and boomers. She doesn't have an issue getting high off these drugs, the problem is that she doesn't trip off doses that my buddies do.

She thinks this may be in part due to extensive (ab)use of disassociatives in the past. She had, at least until the last 6 months of use before she quit, no difficulty tripping from disassociatives. Could "My Tapir's" high tripping tolerance have been caused by her disassociative use? Have you heard of any other "hardheads" who don't trip as easily from psychedelics?

*It's probably important to note that the aforementioned Tapir no longer uses marihuana, and while she recognizes that smoking it while on LSD or boomers would likely enhance the effects, she's not interested in using marihuana to make her trip. "My Tapir" would like to be able to trip w/o it.*

Thanks.

[CrookedEye]

Does SWIY use any other drugs, prescribed or otherwise? SWIM has always personally been an extremely "hard head".. SWIM found his dosages and adjusts accordingly.. It's a bit more costly, if buying, so SWIM learned to grow or make nearly everything he enjoys..

[dip]

Originally Posted by mouthwater

I think this may be in part due to extensive (ab)use of disassociatives in the past. My Tapir had, at least until the last 6 months of use before it quit, no difficulty tripping from disassociatives. Could the Tapir's high tripping tolerance have been caused by the disassociative use? Have you heard of any other "hardheads" who don't trip as easily from psychedelics?

Nothing like this exists. SWIY is probably just accustumed to dissociatives. SWIM still likes acid, but can't find it nearly as intense as DXM- which he tried later on.

[dip]

Originally Posted by dip

Nothing like this exists. SWIY is probably just accustumed to dissociatives. SWIM still likes acid, but can't find it nearly as intense as DXM- which he tried later on.

Actually, it seems more than just that..
SWIM used DXM rarely ... but now acid seems pointless. The come-ing up is fine, but then he just feels stupid. His eyes don't fully dilate. He also needs MJ to feel any effects at all.

Some people claim that dexing too much, DXM seems to lose it's magic.
It feels like that with acid now, for SWIM. It sorta feels like DXM ... but no OBE, nothing is new, he just feels non-existing. He doesn't take any medications. This could be neurotransmittion depletion?

How long has had SWIY been using dissociatives? Intensity of use? When was the last time SWIY dissociated?

[mouthwater]

Originally Posted by dip

How long has had SWIY been using dissociatives? Intensity of use? When was the last time SWIY dissociated?

SWIM had used disassociatives for about three years. SWIM would occasionally binge, but SWIM would also take breaks; SWIM's drug of choice during this period of SWIM's life was disassociatives.

SWIM is very experienced with disassociatives, but hasn't dosed any for over a year.

[dip]

I read this on the DXM FAQ:

There is also a remote possibility of toxicity to 5HT (serotonin) neurons due to induced overactivity, similar to that resulting from MDMA (52). This has, however, never been observed with any dissociative.

Regular use of DXM may alter the effects of LSD due to overall increase in 5HT binding (252) and decreased 5HT2 receptor binding (212).

5HT = serotonin, but what is 5HT2?

Has anyone else experienced immunity to psychedelics after using DXM, or any dissociative?

[Nature Boy]

Does this Tapir use SSRIs like Fluoxetine, Paroxetine etc. for some medical reason? SSRIs are known to decrease the effects of psychedelics considerably. Also, about the Marijuana - Marijuana isn't needed to make one trip, it's just a nice addition to a trip and some people claim it can enhance the effects somewhat.

[mouthwater]

My tapir does not take any SSRIs. My tapir is a mild insomniac and requires dosing certain medication occasionally. This can be anything from diphenhydramine, melatonin, trazodone, and rozerem. Currently, my tapir takes one or two of these drugs nightly. My tapir also experienced difficulty tripping in the past not only when she would take sleep medication every othernight, but also when she wouldn't take any for weeks at a time. My tapir is a healthy weight.

[Jatelka]

The trazodone is likely the problem (even if used infrequently).

From rxlist: "trazodone selectively inhibits serotonin uptake by brain synaptosomes and potentiates the behavioral changes induced by the serotonin precursor, 5-hydroxytryptophan"

ANY drugs which interfere with serotonin uptake will prevent SWIY tripping on LSD, psilocybin or rolling on MDMA.

Given that SWIY only uses trazodone occasionally she would suggest that they omit it, and see if this improves things. Bear in mind that "washout" times for serotonergic agents can be lengthy, up to six months or so!

[mouthwater]

My tapir had taken trazodone in the past, about two years ago, and has not began using trazodone again until one week ago. My tapir experienced difficulty tripping during the break from his trazodone use. SWIM was told by their doctor that trazodone isn't frequently used as an anti-depressant because the dose required to achieve noticeable anti-depressant effects causes such heavy drowniness for most users that they are not able to continue with their daily life adequately. It is for this reason that SWIM was told by his doctor that taking very minimal amounts of trazodone is an effective sleep aid. Does SWIY think trazodone is having a significant effect on my tapir's body chemistry, causing her to not trip, even though my tapir was not using trazodone in the past when she was experiencing difficulty tripping and her current daily dose of trazodone is very minimal?

[Nagognog2]

Information on the receptor 5HT2:

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/3/928