Effects - propantheline bromide?

[cuddlesthefox]

Swim has just got a rather plentiful supply of propantheline bromide 15mg for night sweats due to Fluoxetine.
Swims Doctor was very reluctant to perscribe them due to, swim presumes, because of a spectacular history of abusing medication, legal and illegal. Swim could not get him to say exactly why he was reluctant and that got swim thinking about the recreational value of propantheline bromide.
What are the effects?
How much needs to be taken?
I think the doctor mentioned "euphoria" Could this be?

[fiveleggedrat]

Doing a quick search, Swim found nothing online referring to this drug and anything positive or recreational.

It sounds like an overdose would be unpleasant. Sounds related to things like atropine and scopolamine. Swim recommends not overdosing with them until Swiy is sure it is safe.

[olddirtycr]

SWIM found out through searching google that the drug you were perscribed boosts opiates. Basically SWIM thinks the doctor was reluctant because he or she knows you have/had/will abuse opiates and does not want you too mix the two drugs (boosting both, leading to an easy accidental overdose)

"Interactions between morphine-ir(morphine) and Pro banthine (propantheline)"
"MONITOR: Coadministration of narcotic analgesics with anticholinergic agents may have additive central nervous system (CNS) and gastrointestinal (GI) system effects, and increase the risk of severe constipation or paralytic ileus and CNS depression."

[fiveleggedrat]

"central nervous system (CNS) and gastrointestinal (GI) system effects, and increase the risk of severe constipation or paralytic ileus and CNS depression."

Does not exactly mean boosts opiates in a positive way. It could only increase constipation or slow breathing further. It might be a negative increase in effects.

[cuddlesthefox]

Thank you both for all the research. In swims current state, swims attention span is very limited and internet searches seem to stop as soon as they start.
I think swim has enough information to shelve plans concerning propantheline.
The hunt continues.

[fiveleggedrat]

Good idea =]

Swim recommends ALWAYS finding 100% conclusive data before attempting something new with drugs.

Swim would honestly be dead right now if he did not. Swim has done many dangerous things, and would have done more

Swim does extensive research on products that interact with opioids. If Swim finds anything else out, it'll be here.

[Richard_smoker]

there's a whole subset of information on the internet regarding the effects of purposefully seeking out anti-cholinergics to "potentiate" opiate abuse...somehow, in some way, it apparently makes the experience more enjoyable, &/or allows one to conserve opioids.

i've seen the concept of mixing anti-cholinergics w/opiates on a website that was totally dedicated to opiate potentiation...don't know the site offhand (or if it still exists), but this is a well-known combination in the prescription drug abuse subculture...kinda like mixing antihistamines with opiates...or taking zantac, drinking grapefruit juice, etc. with various pharms to inhibit breakdown of the drug by the liver.

I can't tell you the exact reason why anyone would want to mix the two...that is, i don't know the mechanism for the 'high' to be augmented, but I do know that this activity is definitely pursued by some hard-core opiate addicts...i think what is throwing people off is the exact drug's name that you've listed. I don't think this drug is described specifically on the widely-distributed texts on ways to potentiate opiates.

hope this helps.

ahhh...here we go...ever heard of P's & Q's? aka T's & blues? T=talwin, blues=pelamine...

Tripelennamine (PBZ, Pelamine)...is a strong anticholinergic and was famous for being mixed with pentazocine (Talwin) back in the old days before they started mixing it with Narcan. All of these can be taken in the therapeutic doses along with the normal dose of the opiate.

I can tell you that in a 2002 "best pills/worst pills" (, the drug you're asking about is listed in the "Expert Panel's ALWAYS AVOID PRESCRIBING" list...it's a recommendation list for prescribers, telling them a brief list of drugs that they should probably NEVER prescribe. and, your drug's on there...along with miltown/meprobamate/equanil, demerol, dalmane, & talwin. I believe that this drug is essentially the same as the "blues" (pelamine) that were so famously mixed with Talwin in the 70's & 80's & injected together to simulate heroin.
re: Expert Panel’s “Always Avoid” Drugs

btw, this journal is put out by www.citizen.org/hrg/ i want to say that it is an affiliate of Ralph Nader's political activism--sort of a prescription drug-consumer-health watchdog group, with emphasis on drug-interactions and inappropriate prescribing habits to elderly patients (elderly patients are more susceptible to sedating side effects, for example, and suffer greater consequences FROM side effects--generally speaking)

(most of these drugs listed in the "Always Avoid list") had boxed warnings in the FDA-approved labeling and, in Worst Pills, Best Pills (referring to 1988 publication) we wrote about adverse reactions, especially directed at older adults. Limited Use drugs are those that published studies indicate should only be used as a “second-line” (alternative) drug if another drug does not work, or the evidence shows that it is more dangerous than another drug but not so much so that it merits being listed as Do Not Use.

The authors estimate that in 1996 almost one million elderly patients living in the community received at least 1 of the 11 drugs that the expert panel classified as Always Avoid. This is an alarming number that we think is a gross underestimate of the extent of inappropriate

prescribing to the elderly. The authors point out that they did not assess drug-disease interactions,


drug-drug interactions, and drug administration-related problems, such as too high a dose of a drug for an older patient. They also note that given the rate of introduction of new drugs on the market that are rarely studied in the elderly that it is likely that recently released drugs may be potentially inappropriate for use in elderly patients. Of course we agree with this statement; that is one reason why we research and write Worst Pills, Best Pills News.

Based upon the grouping, classification, and description based on web-searches, this drug has potential for substantial anti-cholinergic sides & great potential for (potentially-lethal) interactions with other drugs, including opiates.

-DICK

Reputation Comments on this post:

useful research

[fiveleggedrat]

From what Swim saw earlier, the OP's substance falls under "antimuscarinic", which is def. different than anticholinergics.

The OP's substance is closer to things we commonly avoid, like atropine and scopalamine (belladonna, angel's trumpets, etc)

Swim recommends to proceed carefully =]

[Richard_smoker]

muscarinic is a type of cholinergic.

there are 2 types of cholinergic receptors/neuroptransmitters:
1. nicotinic: used for muscle twitch activation (mostly, readup for others)
2. muscarinic: used for parasympathetic nervous system, (i.e. opposite of fight-or-flight. includes tiny pupils, no sweating, dry mouth, and others)

Reputation Comments on this post:

good clarification

[throwaway]

Check out all the interactions this drug has with others.

That is probably why the doc is hesitant to prescribe it.