Help me to detox from methadone responsibly please.

[beena]

SWIM has been on methadone for about five or six weeks now probably before that she was using between one and three twenty-bags a day and although she wasn't injecting (she snorted the H), she was getting some pretty nasty withdrawals. With an eight-year crack habit too SWIM thought it was time to get help....
SWIM is doing ok - much better anyhow - she hardly uses heroin at all now, but there are two things that bother her still: 1) That she still has a problem with crack-cocaine (obviously methadone doesn't reduce the cravings for that drug) 2) SWIM would still like to take opiates recreationally (not heroin, which SWIM feels strong enough to stay away from now). SWIM would like to return to the occasional use of morphine (MST), which she has always enjoyed occasionally and responsibly.
The problem is made worse by the fact that, because SWIM has a mental attachment to morphine she still keeps getting from time to time, and taking, the MST. She gets no euphoria from them (methadone blocks it), so she is taking larger and larger doses - she can't help herself - it's her one vice. And before anyone says it: SWIM just doesn't (at this stage in her life) want to stop using MST. She is now worried though that whilst she is on methadone she is putting herself in danger by taking such large quantities of morphine (the other day she had 700mg in one session and was gauching out for a good ten hours or so on and off). But it wasn;t the right buzz she was looking for (hard to explain)
Also she desperately wants to sort out the problem with crack (especially as this involves her partner too). She has a solution though - she and her boyfriend have been invited to go and stay with SWIM's family in a place where crack just isn't available. There would be no temptation to get H either.
SWIM desperately wants to take this opportunity to get clean but the methadone clinic won't let her go (they say it is too early in her treatment to let her take methadone away with her).
SWIM would be happy to come off the methadone but she's heard from other users at the clinic that they like to bring you off methadone very slowly (1-2mg a week). SWIM wants to go away in the next couple of weeks.
SWIM is prepared to stop methadone - to be honest she wants to do this now anyway and start again after a break at her parents. But how can she do it? If she stops suddenly her 50ml daily dose of methadone will she be very ill? How long and how bad do SWIY's think the withdrawals would be?
Also is a rapid methadone detox possible? Does SWIM have the right to tell the clinic that's what she wants or can they say our way (1-2mg per week reduction) or the highway (nothing at all).
Could SWIM use MST to come off methadone? If so, how many and how often do SWIY think would be necessary?
SWIM gets a 50ml bottle of methadone at the weekend to bring home for Sunday...If she split this up into smaller doses could she bring herself off that way??
Please SWIM would be so grateful if SWIY's could help - it's not about getting off so she can go and get high again - SWIM is determined not to use heroin but she doesn't want to use crack either and methadone is rapidly becoming just as troublesome to sWIM as the heroin was in the first place.
SWIM has just about made up her mind that she needs/wants to come off all the above and get back to moderate/occasional use of MST (she's got to have one little vice to keep her sane after all!) Please help if you can.
Thanks in advance....

[msmogadon]

SWIM has not experienced this first hand but does know of someone she met in rehab who went back on heroin to get off methadone. Therefore withdrawls should be shorter and then MST or drug of choice could be used
Any swimmers think this would be a good idea. Of course going on heroin is never a good idea but it would just be for a little while

[Lisa J]

SWIM used MST to get off heroin several times in the past and usually did it over 4 weeks, this is the first time in 25 years SWIM has gone on a methadone script and surprise surprise, 10 months on and SWIM'S still on methadone
SWIY can ask for a 14 day prescription (blue form) to be taken to a chemist where SWIY is staying and still be given in daily issues (supervised if neccesary).
If SWIM had been able to get MST she would never have gone on methadone, if SWIY has a reliable supply it may be the answer, it's certainly easier to wean off morphine than methadone.
Best of luck to SWIY

[oggy]

Originally Posted by beena

If she stops suddenly her 50ml daily dose of methadone will she be very ill? How long and how bad do SWIY's think the withdrawals would be?
Also is a rapid methadone detox possible?

If you go cold turkey you will be ill for about 7 days top, 2 days for the full withdrawal to come on, (this part will make you very anxious but SWIM had some fun mystical experience at this point too) Day 3-5 is the hardest part, (SWIM rattled of 120mg plus high dosage of GBL so 50ml is very safe as long as your moderately healthy) Day 6-7 you will start moving and appetite will start to come back, (only eat fruit and veg). From then on you just build straight back up but 6 weeks on methadone isn't much at all so your very lucky.

Originally Posted by beena

Does SWIM have the right to tell the clinic that's what she wants or can they say our way (1-2mg per week reduction) or the highway (nothing at all).

SWIMs Doctor was very harsh (although he seems nice at first) and wouldn't listen to what he wanted. But since they say its too early for you to come off then most likely yes they won't bargain with you. They can move your prescription if you say your going on holiday. You could do that and take a weeks worth at your folks house and detox slowly there but IMO it just prolongs everything. Detoxing cold turkey worked well for SWIM.

Originally Posted by beena

Could SWIM use MST to come off methadone? If so, how many and how often do SWIY think would be necessary?

SWIM got DHC from the hospital but this only made things last longer.

Originally Posted by beena

SWIM gets a 50ml bottle of methadone at the weekend to bring home for Sunday...If she split this up into smaller doses could she bring herself off that way??

Yes. Take half, 25mg then 15mg, 10mg and stop. Longer tapper will make the withdrawal last longer.

Originally Posted by beena

Please SWIM would be so grateful if SWIY's could help - it's not about getting off so she can go and get high again - SWIM is determined not to use heroin but she doesn't want to use crack either and methadone is rapidly becoming just as troublesome to sWIM as the heroin was in the first place.

This thinking is the only thing that will keep you clean, don't give up. Its also good that you didn't enjoy the your last MST binge at a very high dose, this helps as you'll start to think "it wasn't even that great".

Originally Posted by beena

SWIM has just about made up her mind that she needs/wants to come off all the above and get back to moderate/occasional use of MST (she's got to have one little vice to keep her sane after all!) Please help if you can.
Thanks in advance....

This type thinking is dangerous just now, you need to put right at at the back of your mind. You can never get rid of thoughts but you can think of something else.


Start eating lots of fruit and veg now. 70% fruit and 30% veg and nothing else but water. This will help a massive amount in recovery. Continue to eat this way for at least a month after. This is the most important bit, fruit will get your serotonin levels back up and help with the pain, depression, anxiety, stress and cravings. Remember SWIM was on 70mg more than you and on methadone for 8 months. 6 weeks should be a breeze but its good to expect the worst.

Hope this helps.

[beena]

Thanks for all your support and advice.....SWIM has still been muddling through taking methadone daily. Then on Friday she went on another crack and heroin binge and slept all through Saturday so didn't make it down the chemist to get her script for the (bank holiday) weekend. She went all day Saturday without methadone (or anything else) and was fine. Sunday started off great and then by the afternoon all SWIM could think about was heroin. Sunday evening SWIM started feeling rough (and still couldn't get gear outta her head). SWIM got 35mls of methadone from a friend and this sorted her head out but Monday morning she felt really groggy and so she took some tramadol (which didn't really help). Now SWIM is feeling quite rough (aches and pains and keeps sneezing). Can't wait until tomorrow to get methadone. Got a script that starts tomorrow so hopefully SWIM won't have too much grief from the chemist. SWIM can get MST on Wednesday so she is thinking maybe she should just get her methadone tomorrow (the prescription is valid for eight days though) and then stop on Wednesday and just use the MST's to get through the worse of it. She is going away in two weeks time (but she has been told now that she can get methadone where she is going if she wants). SWIM really doesn't know what the best course of action is. Methadone has certainly lost its appeal recently.

[ottgot]

Im at home and perscibed 25ml of methadone daily, I came came down 10ml myself from 40ml a couple of weeks ago. The problem I have is that Ive been using heroin on top for a couple of weeks, am I safe to detox by stoping my methadone and not use heroin straight away?

[Dickon]

ottgot,

You're safe to quit cold turkey unless you have anything seriously wrong with you medically speaking. The trouble is actually doing it. Methadone is quite hard to come off. My cat just quit after dropping from about 225mg a day and stopped it all nearly 7 weeks ago. He dropped about 5mg a day, and it took him about 5 weeks to reduce down to zero. It was somewhat tricky (I've written about it at length on the Screaming in the Night Air thread), and would be too quick a reduction for many people.

If you're using heroin on top you should consider stopping that first then reducing your methadone, unless you want to do a heroin reduction. Some people prefer this as a heroin withdrawal is quicker than a methadone one, but you'll need a few weeks on just heroin. I'd say it would be easier to knock the heroin on the head and reduce the methadone: that way you know what dose you're taking. There's a lot to read on here about various tapers, other drugs that might help withdrawals (I'd recommend lofexidine or clonidine. Lofexidine may be better for home detox as it has fewer side effects, and is available under the brand-name Britlofex in the UK).

You should also not self-incriminate. Most people use SWIM, or talk about their pets or describe dreams. It's a bit silly, but it's the rules !

Best of luck with any detox

Dickon