Question

[1933]

Look, I don't know if this is the apporpriate forum or not, but my question is that is there an eternal part of the self. And what proof does one have of this. I mean, you can destroy your body and mind completely, but is there something about you that will remain constant despite pain, pressure or death. Thanks. Any thoughts?

[Alfa]

That's a pretty hard question to answer. What I can tell you is that I have experienced many states of mind, that where totally independent of my body. Many people have experienced out of body experiences or simulair experiences while on drugs. Their reality can be discussed by the fact that they occure while hallucinating or at least on drugs. I do not believe that and this has ended my fear of death. Did anyone have out of body experiences or any other experience that gives clue to the independence of the spirit from the body?

[Mole]

What you are asking is if the whole is greater than the sum of its components.

[cormic]

as humans we have conscious awareness of ourselves and what we are.this is achieved thru our DNA which we inherit from our parents and so on back thru the ages.we are taught at a young age what to think and fell,we are told what we are.it is this conscious awareness which prevents us from being truely free and independant.try to imagine the life of a dog,which has no conscious awareness that it is "a dog".he is just a collaberation of his sensory inputs and experiences. when under the influence of some drugs/substances this effect is apparent.conscious awareness is low,the ego is non existant,the self rules..... the effect of one floating has often been descrided here.

[grotesque]

i think everyone should ignore 1933's question, seems like he was just high & didnt have anything to do

[white_lighter]

i dont know some my find that question stupid but me i find it kinda deep somthing to think about mybe are mind body and soul dont always act as one cause there is only so much your body can take and only so much your mind can do but the soul that is forever its like when youralseep your body is resting your minds not really working all that much but you dream all these great things and travel to all these news places strange huhhmmm i must think about this more

Wow white_lighter, that was some really crazy stuff you just said man, i feel you though.

[Pinkavvy]

Nothing is true, everything is possible.

I do believe that there is an eternal self. When you think about it all that is a consciousness is a collection of electrical and chemical impulses, so a consciousness is just energy. Energy cannot be destroyed it can only be transferred. When a person is alive the energy that is their consciousness is present inside a body when they die that energy leaves the body and continues to exist elsewhere. Whether that energy retains that same identity of self that it possesses when a person is alive is something im unsure of.

[searcher]

I believe that when you die, you go to the same place you were before you were conceived, wherever that was. I guess thats constant. You will be, you are and you were. I guess the important part is the "you are" part.

[maxmoe]

Most people will take the agnostic position here and say its impossible to know but will entertain the possibility.



Others will strut out science, evolution saying where just evolved meat puppets.



I guess will all find out in the end.

[soer]

to stay alive forever, create an undying memory .. do something that will be remembered by your name forever .. or keep it nameless .

The fact is- this question will never be answered. A fact is, the truth. The truth needs no proof. It is only true if you beleive it. Beleifs are the only way one can be spiritually fufilled. If you are a Christian- you beleive in Jesusand everything the Bible said he done and will do when he returns. If he does not return in your lifetime, he will return in your children's or your children children's and so on. That is what you beleive. It keeps people sane, when they believe that their going to a better place when they die. Will they? There is also no answer to this question. There is no wrong or right. It is only whatone believes.


P.S=Xentity, what you posted was pretty tight

[Solidly-here]

What Proof is necessary? What proof is possible?


This question makes me think of a Murder mystery ... who did it?


Barring the few crimes where there is videotape of the shooting, the criminal trial is just different people trying their hardest to convince a jury: Either, "I DIDN"T DO IT," or "HE DID IT."


What do those 12 people do in the jury room for 30 hours? Someone believes, someone doesn't believe; eventually (most of the time) all of them will agree on a verdict. In the meantime, one-by-one, people are agreeing to change their perspective of the same evidence that had just convinced themof the opposite view.


Spirituality is much different than that. This is special place, a placewhere people think about more (a lot more)than just the evidence we can directly see in front of us, and touch and smell(i.e., what is beyond this earth-bound existence).


Each of us has his own (very personal) view of this question. I could spend endless hours explaining the under-pinnings of my experience in the Eternal world. I could gather-up sworn statements from 1000 other people...


I wonder how the early Israelistes thought after the Plagues that befell Egypt, and after the Red Sea parted. Soon thereafter, while Moses was up on Mount Sinai, these same witnesses to a pretty-unusual sequence of events, decided to worship a Golden Calf, instead of their God of Israel. I mean, clearly these were not all morons.


Obviously, no matter what happens to us (and how impressive it is), we soon forget. So, I must continually remind myself that there is an Eternal existence. Faith is one thing; I have faith that there is another existence. Continuous faith is another thing; so, even for those of us who believe in MORE, there is a lot more to my life than that one thing (Eternal existence).


I can't show you videotape of monumental miracles taking place (nor would it necessarily convince you anyway). You are the jury. It's your life, figure it out for yourself. Good luck on your journey.Edited by: Solidly-here

[tflagg]

If there is some sort of "eternal soul" of the traditional sense, It would seem to be of little consequence to us, IMHO. The fact that we can find no proof of it only supports this.

On the other hand, there is something that lives on beyond our individual lives. Everything you do, everything you say has an effect on the world and people around you. And the people you effect effect others.

A wise word spoken to a person in need, is not soon forgotten. That person knowingly or not, may pass that same piece of you to someone else; and on and on.

Those things that you do or say that are productive will carry on, those that are not will eventually be forgotten and lost.

Just a theory...

[uqlfy]

Originally Posted by 1933

Look, I don't know if this is the apporpriate forum or not,
but my question is that is there an eternal part of the self. And what
proof does one have of this. I mean, you can destroy your body and mind
completely, but is there something about you that will remain constant
despite pain, pressure or death. Thanks. Any thoughts?

You have a few questions here. Lets tackle them one by one. Yes I think
there is a part of all of us that is eternal. Proof? Only what I've
seen and felt in my life nothing that can proved or disproved. Can you
destroy mind and body completly and have something that remains despite
pain or death? Well my children are going to be around after Im gone.
The memory of me lives on in other people. The effects of my actions in
some ways will be felt after Im gone.



Try the search engine with some keywords like soul death etc. youll find alot.

[jaguarangel]

There are books out if I remember the name, I'll post it about people who
have had near death experiences. They all share common accounts of what
happened. This is no proof but it is very interesting. They all said that they
were looking down at their body. There was a life review going backwards.

[zingos]

I've succeeding in inducing out-of-body experiences (astral projection)
on two or three occasions. And I was even sober. From what I can tell,
there is definitely an eternal aspect to us.



I didn't have objective proof, but I know many people who did
prove it by telling what playing cards were laid down on a table in
another room. All I can tell you is that, in my experience, there are
entire other dimensions of wierd shit </span>out there that you wouldn't believe.

[phenethylamine]

We are all of the same consciousness. Our bodies are reminders that we are here in this holy existence, and we are not alone. My consciousness is the same as yours, when I meditate i go through the same places and states as you, and my 'thinking voice' sounds just like yours. I believe we are all the same, life is a reflection of our minds, and the pain we go through together is unecessary and in the end, an illusion. What will remain constant is the consciousness in this eternal cycle of life. Edited by: phenethylamine

[Chaote]

Originally Posted by grotesque

i think everyone should ignore 1933's question, seems like he was just high & didnt have anything to do

Ya what an ass asking a question while high on a drug forum, maybe we should kick him out of the forum, or hunt him down, that sounds good. He asked a valid and deep question that has generated some well thought responses excluding yours, so what if he's high?

[als5555]

i guess if you want to take a scientific view on it, the theory is that raw energy, which can't be created or destroyed, makes up matter, so the matter that creates you will live on. but i don't think that's what you're asking. that really is a hell of a question, pretty mind bottling actually. i know from my experiences that i have seen my self in the past in the future, but that was with my physical body and all. maybe they were signs that part of me will live on as an essense or energy. i have also analyzed people as a formula. there are different likes and dislikes, skills and challenge areas, points of view and traits. you add these qualities up individually for a number of people, and see if the people with similiar personality components have similiar thoughts and ideas. so these qualities may be eternal, and the human race keeps them alive by , in each lifetime, fillingin and bringing to life these eternal qualities.

[pabel_giboon]

I personally belive death means complete loss of ego, then the total destruction of us. Anyway our gestures, our ways, our thoughts remain on the people we knew and last for generations developing, changing. Like the chaos theory, our lives are the flight of a butterfly but their non-inmediate consecuences can be huge.