Dose - Opiates not working?

[fiveleggedrat]

Swim2 weighs 200, Female, Age 20. No Drug use except Marijuana at least daily. Swim1 weighs 180, Male, Age 19, Poly Drug use of Pot/Opiates/Benzos/Nitrous mostly and some others, and he uses something EVERY day.

Swim1 always talks about opiates and felt Swim2 was ready to try them.

Swim2 tries 300mg tramadol over 2 hours, nothing. Swim1 is fucked on 300mg.

Swim2 snorts 8mg hydromorphone, nothing. Swim1 is fucked on 4mg.

Swim1 feels stupid and does not want to keep wasting money getting opiates/oids that do not work.

Anything have any suggestions as to why they are not working? Swim1 believes She is just a hard head. Swim wanted to post here and ask the great knowledge that is DF. Thoughts? No IV, of course.

Swim2 thinks some methadone or oxycodone would be a good drug to find a breakthough point, or possibly heroin. Swim1 finds non IV heroin not a big deal.

Also, this is unrelated, but Swim2 can also take a 2mg alprazolam bar and barely get a buzz from it.


Any help is extremely appreciated.

[Richard_smoker]

Thank you for the contribution! This is EXACTLY what swim was talking about earlier today on another opiate thread trying to dispell claims that opiates are useful for "depression" in non-opiate addicted individuals.

This is a very common and quite normal reaction...one almost never is properly equipped to appreciate the opiate effects until one is practically addicted to those effects...that's how evil these particular drugs can be...one can't even appreciate them fully without being first having them drag you around by the nipples.

any swim who has ever developed the mildest codeine or hydrocodone addiction will attest that 8mg hydromorphone is some fairly HEAVY SHIT...depending on how it's taken...snorted, it should be powerful enough to knock a dope-ill, miserable, down-on-his-luck, jonesing, luckless opiate-fiend with waves and waves of pleasurable euphoria...i imagine swiy didn't even realize they were crashing around you. Now as for the tramadol, i doubt that you'd feel them anyways...

an interesting side note: it has been observed that even after full-blown addiction has been successfully 'kicked', that one can revert back (VERY TEMPORARILY) to this inability to appreciate the substance fully--very much UNlike immediately prior to kicking...this is especially apparent when something like bupe is used as a short term taper to interupt 'dope-sickness' and quick-fix the habit.

in short, many of these former addicts, once released from all forms of opiate habituation, including being totally clean off the bupe...even though they KNEW they were playing with fire of the WORST kind...they became 'bored' with the abstinence...and when faced with the fact that their old opiate-of-choice did NOT work to make them feel wonderful...they began using again habitually, in a repetitive manner, until the pleasant effects returned fully...and, so did the jonesing, and almost immediately, the user is back on his feet, running from another jones.

...in a word, it seems we're damned if we do, and damned if we don't... some of us are very very jealous of your ability to take those drugs and feel nothing...this might just be your last chance to steer clear of the worst sick swiy's ever experienced. -DICK

[Ididnotinhale]

Swim actually believes the exact opposite of fivelegg. The first time swim tried opiates (25 mg of oxycodone) it was one of the best experiences of his life! Now when swim is jonesing and uses massive amounts of other opiates, they just make him feel tired, he often nods in and out, but doesn't feel any euphoria.

Tramadol is actually being investigated for use in alleviating depression because it does not have the abuse potential of most other opiates and works on many ways other than just on the mu-opiod receptors.

Is swiy taking any drugs that might interfere with the opiates? Was a lot of food eaten before, If swiy had a massive amount of a stimulant earlier that day it would likely interfere with the effects.

Swim also wants to state that even though hydromorphone is one of the strongest opiates, the bioavailability is very low compared when compared to IV.

Swim did not see that swiy stated the administration route stated. Swim would suggest plugging the Hydromorphone.


Partially the reason why the second dose may not have worked is because double dosing opiates never works very well. It seems to swim that if he was to use an opiate in the morning he would have to wait until very late at night or till the next day for a second dose to be effective. Once the K and Mu receptors are partially filled it takes a dangerous amount to make any additional opiates feel effective.(one of the main reasons why methadone works)

Swim would highly suggest swiy not going above 8mg! As ODing and going into respiratory depression is never fun and explaining to the doctors and friends/family why you are in the hospital can be quite uncomfortable. Swim believes that this would also make getting necesary pain relief if swiy is ever in the hospital or has a serious injury extremely difficult.

Swim would suggest swiy staying away from methadone to find a breakthrough level. It is one of the most dangerous drugs to do so with. Since it is not as euphoric as most other opiates, naive individuals take a dose, don't feel anything, take another dose, don't feel anything...etc , by the time swiys start to feel euphoric they are close to Oding. As swim earlier described earlier methadone fills up the receptors to make the second and third dose not euphoric and is probably the most effective opiate at doing so.

Oxy is a great drug to try to find a breakthrough point with. And most consider it to be a much more enjoyable drug.

As a side note, to make the drugs more effective and save money, swiy should take cimetadine about 30 minutes before use, and drink grapefruit juice about 2 hours before. Just be careful as this combo will make the drugs about 30 percent more potent.

Good luck.

[thebige]

Swim dosent recomend anything.........but maybe your nose was filled with snot.......hate to sound sick ...but everyone has their darkside.............

[fiveleggedrat]

Swim1 is proof tramadol has decent abuse potential. Swim1 prefered over other opiates for quite a bit.

Swim1 is aware of dangers regarding methadone and amount of time it takes to become active once ingested and would be sure to inform Swim2 (who he guides during drug use) of dangers.

The hydromorphone was insufflated, a rather decent method of getting hydromorphone to work. Plugging was attempted but failed. No devices around the house were able to provide what was needed.

There was nothing in Swim2's body that could have interfered, and Swim2 does no drugs but pot. Swim1 makes sure that Swim2 knows what to do and expect, everything Swim1 reads he, he tells her, and she listens and remembers.

Tramadol and hydromorphone were attempted 2 weeks apart.

Swim is very much into the Swimming Pool approach with drugs, Slowing increasing the dose while monitoring and fully waiting for effects to manifest before increasing dose. Swim is one of the safest Swim's around.

Would the cimitidine help with hydrocodone? Swim's recent personal studies show all common potentiators including GFJ decrease his results with everything but morphine based drugs. Swim mostly uses codeine based opiates.

[Ididnotinhale]

Originally Posted by fiveleggedrat

Would the cimitidine help with hydrocodone? Swim's recent personal studies show all common potentiators including GFJ decrease his results with everything but morphine based drugs. Swim mostly uses codeine based opiates.

Cimetadine will definetly work. If swiy is using codeine potentiators, don't use quinine, swim has heard it has the opposite effect.

[Richard_smoker]

no need for any potentiators like cimetidine...if you're really determined to feel the effects, just ignore everything i've warned you about...all you gotta do is keep taking the drugs. trust me. they will work...all by themselves...potentiators are for people who have done so much of a substance that it takes astronomical amounts for them to get the same effects, or when the cost of an effective dose is prohibitive.

as soon as you find yourself starting to feel like shit (from not having the opiates in your system), then you will find them to make you feel much, much better.

[fiveleggedrat]

Yeah, Swim never really saw the need for potentiators, he just wanted to lower his doses. For example, he gets FUCKED hard on 80mg+ hydrocodone, but still gets nice effects from 20-30mg. Swim used to nod HARD on tramadol. That's why he also got stuck on it too much. He can't get much from it anymore. Not physical, just psychological.

Swim never has any bullshit from his usage. He is seriously waiting for some crazy fullblown addiction to sneak up on him from all these horror stories here.

[Richard_smoker]

dammit, chihuahua! ...... the swim-"numbers" are really fuckin me up......can't you just make up 2 different screen names or something?

Chihuahua, I can see you right now...as a little child...getting 2 little matching puppies for Christmas one year...Now, I imagine your mamma may have suggested some traditional names like, "Spot" or "Rover"...but, NOPE you said, "their names are Dog1 and Dog2"...*

In the future, i'll be more specific about what SWIY I'm replying to! -DICK

*this expression is but one rather off-hand example of a literary device that some people, um... commonly refer to as... a JOKE! mkay?...a joke...something told with absolutely no purpose save for a cheap laugh or two...and, being that as it were...um, i believe that it was specifically designated, you know, so as not to be taken...well, literally (if you will)...and um, you can quite simply, um...apply this same sentence to whether it was meant to be taken seriously, or...um, when questioning whether it was "the word of God Himself, spoken through writers"... or even if it...um,"holds any water," as it were...mkay?...yeah...whew!...just my way of (admittedly UNhealthily) expressing of a state of..um...(let's see...what were we doing, again?) oh yeah!...confusion!... So...by use of this so-called-joke...by the way, I am A-OK with allowing readers to say "joke", as it's nothing but a reference that goes back to my sole intention...um, of being somewhat humorous....mkay? whew! so much typing, and...well, so little meaning! talk about soreness in the fingers! Overkill?...perhaps..mkay. it was overkill...funny? um, no. not anymore...whew! (why do i always do this to myself!?)...mkay...i believe that about sums up my point...i'm gonna end here....hm....mkay.