Effects - Methadone as a blocker to heroin/opiates?

[beena]

SWIM has been on methadone for a month or so.....she is now on 50mls a day. Occasionally she still likes to use opiates like MST and a few times she has had a twenty bag of H (before starting the methadone programme she was taking 2 or 3 of these bags). She read that methadone can act as a blocker to opiates but thought that only happened at a much higher dose/level of methadone (say about 80mls). Is that correct? SWIM can't get any effect from taking the MST's and not much from taking heroin either. SWIM is glad the methadone has freed her from the cycle of addiction she was caught up in but would really love to take opiates occasionally still for recreational use. Is this not possible whilst she is on the methadone treatment programme? This is really pissing SWIM off! HELP!!!

[ThusSpokeZarathustra]

As long as Methadone is in SWIY's system swiy will not be feeling euphoria from any other opiates. The higher the dose of Methadone, the longer the half life (which is already like 24 hours).

So I guess the answer is no, swim can't use other recreational opiates while on the methadone treatment program. Good luck to you though!

[Ididnotinhale]

The only way to get euphoria while on a methadone program would be to stop taking methadone for a couple of days, which swim would not suggest, or to take a massive amount of opiates. Which swim would definetly not suggest because to get a lot of euphoria swiy would have to spend a lot of money and risk ODing.

Swim is very glad that swiy has been able to get her life back together. Just be careful.

[clint]

Originally Posted by ThusSpokeZarathustra

As long as Methadone is in SWIY's system swiy will not be feeling euphoria from any other opiates. The higher the dose of Methadone, the longer the half life (which is already like 24 hours).

So I guess the answer is no, swim can't use other recreational opiates while on the methadone treatment program. Good luck to you though!

Absolutely correct. Receptors blocked. Using heroin or other opiates whilst on methadone will result in an increase in the possibility of life threatening respiratory depression and no 'hit' or very little, a waste of money in other words. Methadone is a SUBSTITUTE drug for morphine and heroin, and what's more is 10 times more difficult to quit. SWIM once had a terrible heroin habit which was as nothing compared to the 'cure' offered in the form of methadone reduction. The reduction is generally so slow that you are tied to opiates, meth being one of the worst, for years sometimes. Much better to nail yourself into your bedroom a la that movie with a pile of beans and tinned soup; opiate WD never killed anyone so far as I am aware and is generally over in eight days. And do not believe horror stories about the WD. It's no worse than a bout of influenza. The biggest problem is that for a good couple of months after getting clean, you will experience horrible sleeping problems, but the availability of three or four different hypnotics (use in a sort of rotating manner to avoid tolerance) is easy. Z drugs aren't recommended except maybe zopiclone - definitely not zolpidem which has far too many side effects and a very short tolerance time - SWIM recommends midazolam, nitrazepam, flunitrazepam (added benefit is huge half life) and lormetazepam or temazepam. They don't appear to be terribly cross-tolerant and two nights of each is fine for a couple of months, by which time you should taper off them by missing out every second night or if that's too hard then every third night. That is a basic but fictional-ish account of how SWIM managed to quit opiates all together. He also rapidified the hypnotics. The odd night without sleep never hurt anybody either.
The point is this; methadone is probably the worst method of quitting opiates. Clinics can organise Subutex detox which is rapid and far easier, gets you clean fast and without the cravings which can continue for a LONG time after a meth program. A two week period on Lofexidine helps too once the Sub is stopped, but watch the hypnotic intake if doing that. Lofexidine helps with the sleep problems anyway.
This goes back 10 years. Amongst the opiates SWIM was using was pharmaceutical grade Heroin, easily available in the hospital where He was working at the time. Using street heroin should be a lot easier to come off. This stuff was the real thing and 100mg was a huge dose; 100mg (a bag) from the street would be far less than half the potency.
Clinton

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks very much for your imput: I found it very helpful to me.

[beena]

Thanks for SWIY's input so far....SWIM keeps hearing bad things about methadone....SWIM has more or less made up her mind to come off the methadone and just try and go straight/get clean herself.

[mkmustng]

Methadone worked great for me! It was easier being tapered off it than being on mass doses of illegal opiates. Methadone gives you a chance to get your life back.

[Agent Subby]

Originally Posted by mkmustng

Methadone worked great for me! It was easier being tapered off it than being on mass doses of illegal opiates. Methadone gives you a chance to get your life back.

But unfortunately not your teeth back.

[Solinari]

Originally Posted by Agent Subby

But unfortunately not your teeth back.

Actually, methdone isn't any worse than other sugary sweets or drinks such as coke or even tea. As far as i know the problem with methadone and other opiates is it inhibits saliva production which is a natural defence to tooth decay.

[mkmustng]

Thats ridiculous-Being on methadone 6 months cannot be worse than being on the strongest opiate painkillers for years.Some people who use- do believe in oral hygeine and brushing thier teeth.Some dopers are so spaced out they forget to take care of themselves.

[beena]

lol. Yeah, SWIM was told when she started methadone treatment that methadone, like heroin can make you crave sweet sugary products plus methadone itself is sweet and it does indeed prohibit saliva reproduction. But, I was told, that as long as I brushed my teeth every time I took methadone there really shouldn't be a problem...and there hasn't been.
That said, SWIM did decide to come off methadone and hasn't had any since last Tuesday (26th August 2008) and I'm doing ok, using morphine to deal with the withdrawals (which actually haven't been that severe). Yesterday SWIM only took 60mg of morphine and 50mg of Tramadol and has just taken the same dose today.

[Solinari]

Originally Posted by mkmustng

Thats ridiculous-Being on methadone 6 months cannot be worse than being on the strongest opiate painkillers for years.Some people who use- do believe in oral hygeine and brushing thier teeth.Some dopers are so spaced out they forget to take care of themselves.

It's more than likely that people on strong opioids for pain and don't abuse them (or occasionally do) will probably have good oral hygiene.

This is from the Methadone Handbook published by exchange supplies...

...research has shown that the teeth of opiate users on methadone scripts are no worse than those of opiate users not on a script...

[mkmustng]

Why would someone take morphine to combat methadone wds. If you made it that far -why go backwards ? Methadone should be the last stop to your FREEDOM. FREEDOM from addiction is a precious thing.

[beena]

Originally Posted by mkmustng

Why would someone take morphine to combat methadone wds. If you made it that far -why go backwards ? Methadone should be the last stop to your FREEDOM. FREEDOM from addiction is a precious thing.

SWIM was on 50mls of methadone and was still using heroin and other opiates on top which meant that in effect her addictions were just getting worse so SWIM decided to use the pain meds to try and bring herself off both the heroin and the methadone and although its only been five days so far too early to say whether it will work so far she has been doing ok. And it is freedom from addiction that SWIM seeks....she just wasn't getting it with methadone.