Feel smarter when drug free?

[Swing]

Swim has been trying to kick opiates for good and has been successfully using suboxone for a couple months now. He's also tried to stop taking his dexedrine and various prescribed benzos which he pretty much doesn't take now. When taking opiates swim never thought that mentally (as in cognition and learning) it was as bad for you as other drugs compared to cocaine and MDMA for example. But now that he's been on buprenorphine treatment and has been abstaing from other drugs he's seen a dramatic increase in grades and ease in achieving them. Swim never thought OC or H affected his learning capacity and even thought that dexedrine helped him cram and think even better on tests. Recently though swim has made a point in staying clean which means going to class completely drug free and learning and taking tests drug free.

Swim feels completely lethargic and has a lack of motivation all the time but has realized that picking things up in class and memorizing them has come with MUCH greater ease and that recalling things that he has been taught for tests has pretty much given him almost 100% on his past recent exams. Although swim is on bupe (partially opiod agonist / antagonist) when he was using full blown H and OC all the time he always had an excuse thinking that mentally they didn't cloud him up as much as other drugs and that they weren't impeding him. So now even though he can't really feel it he's doing way better and exceeding his expectations in academics making him in all actuality, feeling smarter.

Swim never thought he'd say this but, being clean does make you into a smarter person than when you really are on drugs in his opinion. Anybody else notice a difference?

Reputation Comments on this post:

great post. very keen insight on the grade-boosting effects of NOT doing dexadrine, & others. Keep it up!

[Value Of Existence]

When Swim quit most drug use due to probation, he didn't notice that mentally he was any smarter. However, Swim did have more energy and motivation to do productive things when on less substances.

[kaczynski]

SWIM definitely feels sharper when he's drug free. However, he also thinks differently and often more philosophically when he's high, and usually has enhanced creativity and inspiration. So it's really about balancing the two out; finals week coming up? take a break. summer just beginning? go for it! SWIM also advocates the responsible use of drugs, and part of the "responsible" part is admitting that most illicit drugs are not healthy and have risks that go along with them. Unfortunately government propaganda grossly exaggerates the extent of these negative effects and gives uninformed non-users a negative opinion of drug users. For instance, SWIM admits that smoking pot slows him down a bit, and maybe makes him a bit giggly and confused (at times). However a person with a judgmental attitude will see SWIM laughing hysterically at something and immediately label SWIM as a "stoner" which to them means basically that SWIM is a slow stupid person. In reality though, drugs don't have a huge effect on SWIMs mental clarity but more so on his energy, motivation, etc. as valu of existence mentioned.

[Dexyfiend]

SWIM always feeLs muddled when he's drug free. Dexamphetamine (any amphetamine) seems to make him sightly smarter and about a million times more motivated and focused

[Spare Chaynge]

Swim has not used any drugs for 7 months except nicotine and caffeine. Swim knows exactly how you feel.. There is a limit though. Do not expect to be super man. For swim his logic and reasoning has come back. Also his memory improving his scores to mostly As. Swim some how still feels like he should countinue studying as long as he did on drugs.. But now that he is off ,if he slacks off and does minimal studying for a class he still seems to get low As instead of high As...

drastic improvement over a 79 or something. He also retains the information long after the test is over and is able to incorporate the information into ever day ideas... this is the point of a university to swim.

[ai]

there is no FEEL to it. SWIM IS smarter when drug free.

[fiveleggedrat]

Pot and opiates have zero negative effects on Swim's memory or intelligence.

Benzos make Swim feel dumb because of the serious memory problems they cause him at decent to higher doses.

Swim actually feels sharper when opiated. Likewise with low dose stimulants.

When Swim has a sober period, the only thing different is the amount of drug cravings he has. Swim can use something different every day and feel just as sharp as ever.

[Richard_smoker]

Swing, in short, you GET IT!

What you're describing is EXACTLY true in terms of how the average mind processes and handles learning and memory...

However, this topic is one that will NOT gain very many friends on a forum such as this--especially not from those who are habitual users of amphetamines for their "cognitive-enhancement" capacity.

In the short-term, amphetamines (dexadrine/adderall) make the NON-drug-user in some ways "smarter," but this effect is VERY short-lived...and certainly not without its negative side effects. Then, as you can probably attest, after only a few weeks of habitual use, the amphetamines are required to achieve the same "FEELING" of being MOTIVATED (i.e. energy). However, as your post vividly describes, that sensation of being 'smarter' on the amphetamines is actually a lie....that is, with some exceptions, but in the context of academia, school, class, learning, and tests, habitual use is a detriment.

The only exemption from this rule of thumb (that I know) is if you're talking about the truly attention-deficient, ultra-hyperactive individual who is absolutely incapable of listening to a teacher or reading their assignments... I speculate that many if not most people with a diagnosis of ADD/ADHD are not severely impaired by their lack of attentive capacity. And most of them (when medicated) will tell you that it does take them LONGER to learn and process new information.

The mind is a wonderful and exquisite being...not a computer, as many of us would like to think. Many drugs interfere with the sub-conscious processes that allow for information to be transferred from short-term to medium and long-term memory.

That is why, as you stated in the OP, despite FEELING lethargic and unmotivated, your environment is apparently providing plenty enough stimulation for you to perform at an excellent level, academically. I believe this is from not taking the dexedrine--as back-assward as it may sound...basically, your mind works much easier and faster WITHOUT the dex. Good post. Keep it up.

-DICK

[darkglobe]

Originally Posted by Richard_smoker

The mind is a wonderful and exquisite being...not a computer, as many of us would like to think.

Agreed.

SWIM went through a short-term bout of heavy cannabis/DXM/coke use. While he knows that these drugs aren't "smart" drugs, and have obvious stupifying (it's a word, k??) effects, he noticed that in between uses, when he was totally sober (you'll have to take his word, but he was)... he noticed he felt "a little dim".

Month or so later, he's feeling considerably sharper already.

...Coincidence? He thinks not.

EDIT: A bit of not-so-quantitative evidence.... IQ during drug use (while sober): 106. IQ now: 117. Both are fairly low, but although SWIM apparently comes across as being at least a little bit intelligent, he has always had rather a low IQ score. He tells me he doesn't care, though.

[moda00]

Swim feels that the biggest difference is in her motivation. When she is not focused on using all the time, she is more engaged in pursuit of knowledge and has been able to resume college, reading for pleasure, studying piano, and other pursuits she had abandoned. She also feels that she has longer attention spans- ie. when she sits down to study she can get things done rather than losing interest or getting distracted after five or ten minutes. However, swim was using not only on occasion but daily and in large amounts (coke and heroin) so the underlying addiction issues and cycles of withdrawal obviously contribute differently than say the changes that accompany more sporadic use or use of nonaddictive substances.

Swim does find that since her sleep disorder developed she has had more trouble with memory and concentration, but was able to observe the changes when she got sober before that started interfering with things (which has been frustrating, because just as she got clean and was starting to feel better she got sick again..) so now she is prescribed methylphenidate for as needed use. She found that around 5 mg was useful, but not something she wants to be on regularly. And its usefulness was not "making her smarter/sharper" but simply allowing her to stay awake, which is obviously necessary for learning That said, she doesn't like the effects of such drugs and worries that using it i really treating the symptoms and not the underlying problem, so she is a bit ambivalent.

[chillinwill]

well my pet snake has 140 days clean now from his drug of choice, heroin and just this past week, feels so different than before. my pet snake felt that his mind and energy levels and concentration levels went up a couple of weeks after use, and now, my snake was telling me that he feels like a million bucks and is ready to tackle the world

my snake has heard that this is a common occurance once someone gets clean but man, this feeling is sooooooo good....he hopes that it will stay like this as long as he stays away from drugs(except the occasional psychedelic use) and he definitely feels way smarter than before and almost back to his normal self before he started using

[Richard_smoker]

Originally Posted by chillinwill

well my pet snake has 140 days clean now from his drug of choice, heroin and just this past week, feels so different than before. my pet snake felt that his mind and energy levels and concentration levels went up a couple of weeks after use, and now, my snake was telling me that he feels like a million bucks and is ready to tackle the world

please, do tell... how in the hell have you managed to stay off H for 140 days!?? are you on Bupe or Methadone maintenance therapy?? or did you actually stop H by quitting opiates alltogether??

EXREMELY curious about this one! -DICK

[chillinwill]

Originally Posted by Richard_smoker

please, do tell... how in the hell have you managed to stay off H for 140 days!?? are you on Bupe or Methadone maintenance therapy?? or did you actually stop H by quitting opiates alltogether??

EXREMELY curious about this one! -DICK

well, first, I tried methadone and then switched to suboxone for 4 months or so; however, that idea didn't work due constant relapses and such....I was taking 16mg of suboxone and thought that would settle everything and then finally figured out that I could get high by upping my heroin dosage and avoid withdrawals by taking the suboxone the next day

after all of this mess, my suboxone doctor recommended vivitrol, an extended release naltrexone injection shot given once a month....this has helped tremendously....I have been on this shot now for 13 months and have had some relapses off and on but nowhere near the level it was with suboxone or methadone

My last relapse on April 15, 2008 got me kicked outta the sober living house I was living in and i moved back in with my parents. I am still on the Vivitrol shot and my parents have been watching me closely. They drug test me randomly twice a week and have control over all of my money. As of right now, I am still not driving due to me not trusting myself and go to an occasional NA meeting here and there just to remember what it is like and the newcomers and such. I also work out daily (alternate between running and lifting) and make sure to take my dog for a walk daily since it helps me get fresh air and clears my mind when walking my dog around the neighborhood. It kinda sucks living with your parents when your 22 but then again I hadn't been acting like a 22 year old when using and I had nowhere else to go. As for a job, I take online surveys which I can earn around $100 a month and also do an online computer technician type service in which I get paid.

It's really weird now that I have 140 days clean since the most clean time I ever had before that was 3 1/2 months. Time has flown by and I finally now feel like I am back to my normal self in terms of energy and clear thinking. Life is so good. If I can do this, anyone can.

Remember that the thinking of just one day at a time really does help(at least for me it does)

[fiveleggedrat]

Haha, Swim lives in a dead area with no work, which he needs badly to continue to stay in school. Swim tried perhaps 20 various online survey things for a GOOD amount of time each, and never saw a penny. Swiy is lucky, at least somewhat, to have found money that way.

Swim has huge amounts of free time and wish he could bounce between online surveys and reading here That'd be one hell of a job-thingy, even if it paid poorly.

Back on thread topic, Swim also recently took a break from pot for about a week. No difference, really. Swim sees breaking an addiction could make someone feel smarter. Swim has personally never experienced any type of physical addiction, thank goodness.

Swim is mentally addicted to consuming a different substance every day. To repeat the same drug more than 2 days is frowned upon by Swimself, for physical addiction/tolerance reasons and personal boredom. Swim'll find something to do. Once the "good" drugs he had run out (mostly benzos and opioids), he turns to experiments with the little he has left over (pot, alcohol, salvia, DXM usually) Good example is last night Swim did an alcohol/pot combo experiment (with mostly positive/neutral results, thank goodness.)

Only pot is ever a first choice normally.

Swim's big three, as he calls it, are pot, benzos, and the fav- opioids.

Swim did wake and bake for the first time ever the other day. Very interesting, it made his morning a lot more enjoyable, but made him sleepy until late in the evening, which has happened since he built up a daily tolerance again.

[Mammon]

Man, this thread ties in with so many of my own thoughts. Let me describe this guy I know.

He tells me that clean living gives him better memory and, more importantly, better concentration. However, he feels that there isn't quite the ecstatic joy he gets from thinking about learning that he gets when fired up.

While his thoughts might be misty when under the influence, but they have a beauty that just doesn't appear when sober.

Read a book like "The Bloody Chamber" while sober, then have an opiate and he says his mind is on fire.