Dopamine Question

[trammy]

Does anyone know about how to boost swim Dopamine levels?

swim am looking for a way to get the effect swim got from Hydrocodone.

[staples]

Originally Posted by trammy

Does anyone know about how to boost swim Dopamine levels?

swim am looking for a way to get the effect swim got from Hydrocodone.

I don't think the main effects from hydrocodone are attributed to it boosting dopamine, but as Politicalchalk said, something that works on the opiod system is what SWIY is probably looking for...

[cra$h]

cocaine and amphetamins flood the brain with dopamine. Seratonin is what opiates are responsible for. Just thought I'd clear that up.

[vinylmesh]

Originally Posted by cra$h

cocaine and amphetamins flood the brain with dopamine. Seratonin is what opiates are responsible for. Just thought I'd clear that up.

Wait SWIM thought opiates mimicked the release of endorphins, SWIM is quite sure the main effect of opiates is not on the serotonin system.
SWIM took a serotonin agonist once (meOPP) and it felt nothing like opiates.

[Swimster]

to vinyl: Opiates utilize other neurochemicals (like dopamine; not sure about 5-HT) indirectly.

[RoboCodeine7610]

I found this letter in swim's mailbox:
I guess the easiest thing to get and that would rise your dopamine levels would be DXM, but that has nothing to do with hydrocodone.
So the closest thing to hydrocodone and that would be readly avaliable would be codeine...
Here's a link to the CWE thread:http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9829

[Politicalchalk]

Ok, so we've gotten ourselves into a bit of a muddle. Many of the comments above are true (not all, however), to varying extents.

First of all, the relationship between opiates and serotonin is not completely understood. Opiates have been used for quite a long time as anti-depressants. It also seems at least plausible that serotonin is released, but serotonin also causes eyes to widen, whereas opiates cause pupils to pinpoint. Not the best choice of words. But there is no question that opiates are involved in dopamine release.

Endorphins (short for endogenous morphinian), enkaphelins, and others are present in the body's natural opiate system. When swiY takes an opiate such as hydrocodone, it is thought to mimick the effects of these naturally occuring substances in the body. Kind of (and this is extremely simplified here) like making a key from a wax impression of a skeleton key. That is to say, it fits into the right slots in the right ways. To Swim's knowledge, there is no intereaction between naturally occuring endorphins and man-made opiates or opioids.

It is thought than when one takes a mu-agonist opiate, like morphine (or hydrocodone), in addition to the lil man-made wax-buggers make their way into the appropriate receptor (that is, the mu receptor on the opiate system), dopamine is also released. We're unsure what comes first, how, or, why. But, it has been posed that the mu-agonist in turn will cause the release of dopamine, resulting in the pleasurable, pain-reliving, addicitive sensation. Medical books make sure to point out "This concept is only partially, not completely, understood."

That's only in a specific part of the brain, "the reward pathway" -- dopamine in other places are responsible for your ability to move your body, speech patterns, even some regularatory functions like breathing. It's a versatile chemical and has very unique structures and subpatterns.

[vinylmesh]

Originally Posted by Politicalchalk

It is thought than when one takes a mu-agonist opiate, like morphine (or hydrocodone), in addition to the lil man-made wax-buggers make their way into the appropriate receptor (that is, the mu receptor on the opiate system), dopamine is also released. We're unsure what comes first, how, or, why. But, it has been posed that the mu-agonist in turn will cause the release of dopamine, resulting in the pleasurable, pain-reliving, addicitive sensation. Medical books make sure to point out "This concept is only partially, not completely, understood."

That's only in a specific part of the brain, "the reward pathway" -- dopamine in other places are responsible for your ability to move your body, speech patterns, even some regularatory functions like breathing. It's a versatile chemical and has very unique structures and subpatterns.

If this was true, then a dopamine antagonist would completely remove all traces of euphoria from an opiate (has this been tried?)

I personally don't believe this. I think dopamine is used to motivate you to work when you're doing something worthwhile and i think endorphins are there to let you rest when you've just done something worthwhile.

GHB inhibits dopamine release but it is still both euphoric and addictive.

If the main effect of opiates was caused by dopamine, then people would find speedballs unbearable, the way same people find the dopamine rebound when coming down from prolonged GHB use.

[RoboCodeine7610]

Originally Posted by vinylmesh

If this was true, then a dopamine antagonist would completely remove all traces of euphoria from an opiate (has this been tried?)

I personally don't believe this. I think dopamine is used to motivate you to work when you're doing something worthwhile and i think endorphins are there to let you rest when you've just done something worthwhile.

GHB inhibits dopamine release but it is still both euphoric and addictive.

If the main effect of opiates was caused by dopamine, then people would find speedballs unbearable, the way same people find the dopamine rebound when coming down from prolonged GHB use.

Nice theory, swim completely agrees.

[RoboCodeine7610]

That's true, but what swim was trying to say was not that opiates would release dopamine levels (which they do, as swiy mentioned, in the reward pathway), but that they're the closest thing to hydrocodone, and that not all drugs which release dopamine in the reward pathway (Opiates,nicotine,methamphetamine,cocaine...etc) have an effect similar to hydrocodone, which is, Swim thinks, what trammy thinks.

[Politicalchalk]

...it seems Swim's hit an antipode. Swim doesn't think he's wrong, but he also thinks swiy has valid and accurate points. More modern dopamine are much more selective with receptor subtypes, but older ones aren't.

Swim hasn't personally experienced such a thing, but he could see that, for some people, dopamine blockers (ie: anti-psychotics) might actually potentiate opiates.

Will do more research, maybe even a consultation, and post soon.

[toe]

for some people, dopamine blockers (ie: anti-psychotics) might actually potentiate opiates.

. . . and if one is really lucky. it might even potentiate serotonin syndrome. I guess it might vary quite a bit from anti-psychotic to anti-psychotic, due to variation in proportions of the receptors distribution, but most- if not all?- novel anti-psychotics have meaningful activity at the serotonin receptors, as do almost all opiates.

That, or the augmentation with APs will simply knock a person out.

[Politicalchalk]

Virtually all psychoactive drugs (with of course some exceptions) release dopamine in the brain's reward pathway.

Swim surmises what swiY seeks is a mu-opiate receptor agonist, such as hydrocodone, codeine, morphine, etc etc.

Increasing systemic dopamine would likely result in motor problems, ranging anywhere from minor tremors to an outright parkinson's-like state (tardive dyskenesia), among other things. Dopamine is pretty important and has a wide range of functions in the body...swiY wants to try and limit that to a very specific part of the brain.

[lostmente]

swim just had a psychiatric review today, learnt that there are over 20 types of dopamine in the body, and 15+ types of serotonin...found to date.

nutritionally,

trysoine is the fundamental amino acid for dopamine, which goes to l-dopa, which goes to various dopamine's.

somewhere swim saw a new compound that could reverse opiate tolerance, might be worth looking into if opiate use is to be you source of a satisfied mind

[Politicalchalk]

In Swim's humble opinion, he believes that the "20 + serotonins" likely refer to the various serotonin sub-type receptors in the brain. Ditto for dopamine.