USA - sketchy situation, legal advise

[wrwm4]

a few nights ago a friend was taking me home from another friends house when a police officer driving the opposite direction turned around and began to follow us. we turned onto my street then into the driveway of my house. the cop stopped in front of my house and waited until my friend driving and i began to walk to my house door, then he flipped his lights on and pulled into my driveway. he got out of his car and explained how we fit the description of some guys who were breaking into cars nearby (which we we're not these guys nor did we know anything about this). he asked my friend if he could look through his car to make sure there was nothing in there that we might have stolen. There was marijuana, and a pipe in the car, so my friend kind of beat around the bush with the officer for a while before giving him permission to search his car, (i know, it was our biggest mistake to let him search it). So he found the pot and the bowl and arrested my friend. one of the other officers, (there is now 3 cop cars in my driveway, one with flashing lights on), then asked me to put my hands on his car so he could pat me down and check for weapons. having a pipe in my own pocket, i plea with the officer to let me go into my house, but he refuses. he pats me down, feels the bowl in my pocket, and asks me what it is. i tell him all thats in my pocket is my keys and sunglasses, so he asks if he can pull it out of my pocket. i told him i do not feel comfortable with him reaching in my pocket, id rather you not. he persisted to feel the pipe from the outside, then without permission, reached in and pulled it out, then put me in cuffs. so my friend got possession and paraphernalia, and i got a paraphernalia charge.

i am 18 years old, this occurred in the state of ohio, and it is my first offense.

Now the whole situation seemed kinda sketchy to me. i am wondering, first, if the officer had probable cause to pull me over, second, did he violate any of my rights by turning his lights on and pulling into my driveway, and third, were my rights violated by the officer searching me and reaching in my pockets against my will, while on my property? also, i am wondering if a lawyer is necessary at my court appearance. i'm pretty tight on cash right now, and am wondering if i could do without?

[PingoTango]

Shit, that's pretty draconian treatment for just being in possession of paraphernalia. I'm not at all familiar with US law, but you have my sympathies...

Not a terribly helpful post, sorry.

[kaczynski]

The cop would argue that he had probable cause because of his " you fit the description" story.

[Panthers007]

Yes you need an attorney. If you can't afford one - tell that to the judge. You have a good case based on probable cause, illegal search and seizure, trespassing on private property...get the attorney going and keep your big mouth shut tight.

Now go read the rules here. Your post violated the rules regarding self-incrimination. The rules are here:
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/ann....php?f=184&a=1

[Stephenwolf]

a good lawyer could try to get some record of the "descriptions" and use that to argue that it was an arbitrary search, making anything found invalid as evidence.. but i doubt it would work out that way.

Stephenwolf added 3 Minutes and 9 Seconds later...

after all if there is no record of Descriptions being given ,nor a record of stolen things, then that could totally kill their right to search you...in the US the cops don't need permission or a warrant to search a car, things just go smoother if they do...you can find out about it fairly reliably on wikipedia.

Stephenwolf added 12 Minutes and 18 Seconds later...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_exception .......... I wouldn't really consider this a case of self incrim, i mean sure it was HIS pipe and things but he's also admitting to being in trouble for it....once i got arrested for drugs... i wouldn't say thats incriminating, incriminating means the statement could get you into trouble, saying I'm in trouble for X thing... isn't incrimination... but its probably still better to err on the side of caution when discussing it, but it seems like there isn't an issue in this instance

[fnord]

The officer should have had no reason to go beyond a terry pat while searching you as you stated you desire not to be searched. Seeing sa it was your friends bowl and not yours they found in his car they did not have a valid reason to search you.he had the right to pat you down to feel for wepon shaped objects but not to enter your pockets against your consent. Now ive spent alot of time in the legal system but i am not a lawyer so please research any info i give you and dont take my word for anything..

Heres a start.

[wrwm4]

forgot to mention, as he patted me down, he felt the bowl and asked if it was a gun. then when he pulled it out the officer observing the search claimed he knew it was pipe the whole time because he could hear it clanking off my keys. what's the chances the officer's claim "it felt like a gun" will hold up in court?

wrwm4 added 26 Minutes and 11 Seconds later...

one more thing. i was never taken to the police station. he cuffed me, put me in the police car, then let me go into my house with a written citation for possession of drug paraphernalia. i don't know if this changes anything but thought id throw it out there.

[kaczynski]

Originally Posted by wrwm4

forgot to mention, as he patted me down, he felt the bowl and asked if it was a gun. then when he pulled it out the officer observing the search claimed he knew it was pipe the whole time because he could hear it clanking off my keys. what's the chances the officer's claim "it felt like a gun" will hold up in court?

wrwm4 added 26 Minutes and 11 Seconds later...

one more thing. i was never taken to the police station. he cuffed me, put me in the police car, then let me go into my house with a written citation for possession of drug paraphernalia. i don't know if this changes anything but thought id throw it out there.

Unfortunately most judges are more interested in sentencing drug offenders, even minor offenders, than they are going after the cops who bust them. I'm not sure if it's like this everywhere, but in the suburbs where I live the cops can get away with a lot of bullshit. They generally don't get called out for anything less than blatant abuse/rights violations. If a cop pulls someone over and strongly suspects that individual has some sort of illegal substance in the car, he can and will claim he "smells drugs" or "saw you smoking something" whether he did or not in order to "legally" invade your privacy and search your car. So in the courtroom, it comes down to the cop's word against the kid who was driving around with drugs in his car.

[Panthers007]

The Kangaroo-Kourts of suburbia are a well-known fixture in the USA. The first thing a good attorney will do is move the case into the city - where bad arrests don't hold up as easily as they do with the cop who plays golf with the judge.

[purplehaze]

In my state for a cop to search the vehicle there has to be another officer there to assist, because of the high rates of planting shit on people and dirty cops.

Tell the lawyer every little detail, how it happened step by step and let him look over the laws in your state. Alot of times if you keep your mouth shut the officer will throw the case out for you by vilating his laws, you will be punished if you don't have a lawyer thats worth a shit though.

Don't plea bargain.

[Prof. Frink]

You will need a lawyer, but you are completely capable of pleading not-guilty at you arraignment. While you get up the money to pay for a lawyer, become indigent and request a Public Defender. Tell the judge that you are not a legal expert, but that you take the future seriously and know how even a small crime can affect your life. DO NO PLEAD TO ANYTHING!!!! When you meet your public defender (agreeing to get one will cost you like $50 usually, unless you are seriously broke), ask him/her about your case. Use your PD for their intimate knowledge of the prosecution, but remember that in America with a vigorous defense, anything is possible

[wrwm4]

Hey thanks for all the advice guys. Just went to court the other day, and went very well. Luckily the judge was very understanding, and i was given the option to take one 4 hour drug/alcohol class which will cost me $45, which is well under what i expected i'd be paying going into all of this. As long as i attend the class, everything will be dropped, and nothing will go on my record. I figured i would be stupid not to accept this offer and will be attending this class in the next week or so. Thanks again for everyones help and support.