A Liberal Democrat member of parliament has introduced the Prohibition of Cannabis Seeds bill, which as the title suggests, aims to outlaw the possession of cannabis seeds, which are currently legal in the UK.
The debate, which consisted of Paul Flynn (the only sane MP as far as drug policy is concerned) telling the 'honourable gentleman' why he was being an idiot. Below that is the press release from the Legalise Cannabis Alliance. Flynn says this is unlikely to pass, but it may give the government ideas.
Quote:
Paul Flynn (Newport, West) (Lab): The Bill will appeal to most Members, and it is certainly well intentioned, but I suggest to the hon. Member for Carshalton and 9 July 2008 : Column 1431
Wallington (Tom Brake) that it would have many unintended consequences for a group of people that he has not mentioned: the thousands in this country who use cannabis for medicinal purposes. There have been Bills before the House that would have allowed cannabis to be prescribed. Frequently when I speak on the subject, some newspapers link the fact that I have arthritis to my enthusiasm for legalising medicinal cannabis. There is no connection. I have never in my life used an illegal drug, and I have no intention of using one.
One drug that was recommended to me, and which many people used, was Vioxx. It was a COX-2 inhibitor and pain reliever that was prescribed more than 1 million times in this country before it was discovered to have caused 150,000 heart attacks and strokes in another country. The merit of cannabis, which has been used as a medicine for more than 5,000 years on every continent, is that all its side effects and problems were discovered through experience many years ago.
Thousands of people in this country choose to grow their own cannabis. I am happy to reflect on the fact that only 12 ten-minute Bills, I think, have become law in the past 25 years, so it is unlikely that this one will, but the Government might be persuaded to go down a similar path. If it were to become law, those people would have to move to the criminal market. At the moment, they are doing something perfectly legal. They can buy their seeds on the internet, in other countries or in shops such as the one that the hon. Gentleman mentioned, which are fairly rare. If they do so and grow their own, they know the quality and strength of the cannabis that they take when they engage in a perfectly harmless activity that gives pain relief to people, particularly those suffering from multiple sclerosis, who find that the chemical drugs that are available to them cause terrible problems, including nausea and all kinds of serious side effects. People have come to demonstrate at Parliament in the past 12 months, showing that they want the law to be changed. If the law is changed, and a simple Bill is introduced to differentiate between the recreational and medicinal use of cannabis, the hon. Gentleman’s Bill might be appropriate. However, this Bill would plunge people into fear, in the knowledge 9 July 2008 : Column 1432
that the only way in which they will be able to continue to use cannabis—their medicine of choice—will be to move into the illegal market.
The hon. Gentleman rightly said that he was against the irrational proposal to move cannabis from class C to class B, but I am sure that that will happen. As a result, the maximum sentence for possessing cannabis—and, presumably, for possessing seeds—will go up from two to five years. We would be doing that in the knowledge that we do not have a single prison that is free of the open use of heroin and cocaine to which to send anyone who is convicted. They could go to prison as an MS sufferer using their medicine of choice—as a cannabis user—and come out in five years’ time as a heroin addict.
As a result of the hon. Gentleman’s well-intentioned Bill, major injustices will be done, and the anxiety that it and any proposal from the Government will cause is not worth its suggested benefits. He did not give any evidence of harm—certainly, people will be understandably anxious if such a shop is set up in the neighbourhood—but there is harm from other temptations for young people, particularly from tobacco. Virtually everyone’s first use of cannabis as a drug of abuse is when it is mixed with tobacco, which is an addictive or killer drug. It kills 120,000 people a year, whereas deaths from cannabis are probably non-existent and certainly extremely rare. There is concern about the side-effects, and no one would advocate its greater use, but I urge the hon. Gentleman to think deeply about the unintended consequences of his Bill. Question put and agreed to.
Bill ordered to be brought in by Tom Brake, Keith Vaz, Mr. Gary Streeter, Mr. Nigel Evans, Mrs. Janet Dean and Bob Russell.
Cannabis Seeds (prohibition)
Tom Brake accordingly presented a Bill to prohibit the sale of cannabis seeds; and for connected purposes.: And the same was read the First time; and ordered to be read a Second time on Friday 17 October, and to be printed [Bill 136].
Cannabis Campaigners urge MP’s to reject prohibition of cannabis seeds bill
In a political U-turn, the Liberal Democrats not-so-liberal drugs legalisation policies on cannabis was thrown into question last week by Tom Brake MP, who split his party in the middle by introducing Bill 136, the Prohibition of Cannabis Seeds Bill.
Ingo Wagenknecht, a spokesman for the Legalise Cannabis Alliance (UK) said: "Such a bill will not only be unenforceable, impractical and an outright waste of taxpayers money to enforce. It will diminish our agricultural choices and introduce a Government-led cartel regime as to what species can be grown. Farmers, just as with GMO’s, currently growing hemp for industrial and medicinal purposes under Government license, would have to agree not to sell or save seeds for the next year, a ludicrous suggestion that belies Lib Dem unity on their policies."
He added: "The Hemp genus is far too valuable to us to have it further prohibited, indeed it is criminal to withhold it from society when it could benefit us so much, never mind the drugs that can be won from it.
"Whilst splitting the Lib Dems and self-deluding us into believing that they are tough on drugs, especially at this point in time when we are looking for real alternatives to our oil based economies when we want to cut down on CO2 and want to reduce harm to our youngsters, our future taxpayers and pension providers, this proposal does nothing to forward debate. It perpetuates the same old prohibitive messages that have served to proliferate drugs and keep it in the hands of criminals."
"How can you have a policy wanting to legalise cannabis and then ban the seeds?
"Until this bill 136 falls, we will be advising our members to only vote for candidates that have voiced their support for the equal application of the Human Rights act, the legalisation and control over cannabis and for real harm reduction in society"
"The LCA urges all MP’s to deny this bill a second reading on October 17th. It already represents a waste of public funds and time.
I"n the two-month leading up to the second reading our members will lobby MP’s , we hope to avert this bill before it becomes another unwieldy and useless tool for an overburdened police force and stick in the mud bureaucratic structures that are currently determining drug prohibition and harm on our streets.
What a bizarre idea from an MP who is member of an increasingly bizarre political party. There was a time when you hoped that a vote for them might be a vote for at least a mild kind of rational liberalisation. Tom Brake, the main dude involved, used to be the MP for the area I once inhabited, and I confess to having voted for him twice, him seeming to be a not-bad dude as far as mainstream politicians go.
It is especially bizarre when the police have an increasing amount of serious stuff to deal with. Though it might help them reach their targets. Aren't the police, like almost everyone else, part of the idiot target culture? Do they have to make a certain number of arrests per week or something like that? Does anyone know (any cops out there reading this stuff?). Because if so it influences the profile of focus of those enforcing the law. I mean, it's far easier to reach your target by busting an evil monster walking down the high street with a bunch of cannabis seeds in his pocket than by dealing with something less serious like people trafficking, guns on the streets in Clapham blah blah blah.
Not really, if the product itself can be sold on the black market as widely and in as plentiful supply as it is, same goes for the seeds. A ban would just shift them onto the illegal market rather than the legitimate businesses that sell them currently.
The black market would sell the plants, not the seeds. Clones are way more interesting production wise. Clones will give a much more stable outcome of production. Seeds can do anything. Seeds are only for growers that do not have continuous production.
There is not much cannabis seeds being sold within the Netherlands. It's all clones of top quality genetics. The same goes for other countries where clones are legal to sell.
I suspect that if seeds become illegal, then the potency / THC level of cannabis in the UK will rise steeply and get near the levels of Canada and The Netherlands.
Potency was the argument for moving cannabis from class C to class B.
It was a bloody silly argument, seeing as higher cannabinoid levels mean less marijuana has to be smoked, so you have a higher delivered cannabinoid to tar/toluene/benzene ratio. But I suppose that doesn't change that fact that the general populace doesn't seem to know or understand this.
I randomly turned over to the BBC Parliament channel a while back and ended up watching the this debate!! I believe the debate was also about the control of cannabis paraphernalia along with seeds. Paul Flynn was amazingly sensible for a member of Parliament arguing against this suggested bill. He seemed quite pro drugs really without actually admitting it fully. Its quite encouraging that some MPs with some common sense are actually speaking up in debates!!
I wouldnt worry too much about the seeds being banned though as stated above these discussed bills between low grade MPs are rarely actually implamented!
Quote:
I am happy to reflect on the fact that only 12 ten-minute Bills, I think, have become law in the past 25 years
I randomly turned over to the BBC Parliament channel a while back and ended up watching the this debate!! I believe the debate was also about the control of cannabis paraphernalia along with seeds. Paul Flynn was amazingly sensible for a member of Parliament arguing against this suggested bill. He seemed quite pro drugs really without actually admitting it fully. Its quite encouraging that some MPs with some common sense are actually speaking up in debates!!
I wouldnt worry too much about the seeds being banned though as stated above these discussed bills between low grade MPs are rarely actually implamented!
From what SWIM has heard all seeds are set to be banned in the new year, SWIM is set to buy a lot before this happens.
Could you please provide a source for this? Can you back this claim up. I am not saying its not true, but would like to know what its based upon.
Like I said I heard it, from a friend who is 20 years in the business, he's been saying it for a while now, now whether it's true or not I cannot say. Earlier this year we had the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo) set to clamp down on 'retailers who display drug-related paraphernalia, because of fears they are glamorising abuse of illegal substances.' 'Head shops'. My own opinion is that a ban will come sooner rather than later, mainly due to the high rise in 'grow houses' operated by large criminal gangs i.e Chinese. The police are finding, on average 2 a week in N Ireland, there's that many Chinese locked up in Maghaberry jail, they have to serve Chinese food now
30-07-2008, 12:28
What a bizarre idea from an MP who is member of an increasingly bizarre political party. There was a time when you hoped that a vote for them might be a vote for at least a mild kind of rational liberalisation. Tom Brake, the main dude involved, used to be the MP for the area I once inhabited, and I confess to having voted for him twice, him seeming to be a not-bad dude as far as mainstream politicians go. 
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