Cultivation - Coca Cultivation

[Benga]

live cuttings are another option.
but yes, discussion of sources for legal products belong in the source forum.
b

[novo]

Hello, swim was wondering what soil substrate is successful for coca? Swim has used Pro-mix, a peat moss, vermiculite, perlite mix, and even though both novo and coca species grow in it, swim has had constant yellowing of older leaves, and the color has never been right on any of the leaves. The new growth often looks good for a week or so, then the yellow mottling happens. Swim uses an acid fertilizer (17-6-6) with extra iron, and adds some mixed mineral supplement as well. The coca pH is adjusted to under 5 and the novo's pH is around 5.5. Swim uses a 1000 w MH, and the temperature stays between 75 and 90 F. A fan provides a gentle breeze.

Would anyone have suggestions of why these plants have deficiencies?

[hul gil]

Swims friend uses potting soil combined with sand a little perlite mixed in also adds cured manure or what ever you want to call it says manure on bag but looks just like the cheap potting soil swims friend gets also some charcoal from the fire pit there are alot of nutrients in the charcoal .
swims friend uses a 12-4-8 and 4-12-4 plant food every two weeks originally started with the 4-12-4 transplanting solution then started adding the 12-4-8 in with it to change them over but plants have done so well with the two combined swims friend continues with it .
I know you need to get the micro nutrients also so far swims friend has been lucky as far as soil and fert go I dont know if we can give a site for grow info purposes but if you google growing E.novogranatense coca plants or java coca should give you some good link for how to grow.

[libertassimplex]

Some companies sell special coca soil, but I think it's a rip-off. Incredibly high prices. I suspect you can just mix some bonsai soil with a lot of palm soil and I suspect they'll do fine with a little leaf-green-plus and some stuff made of bone for the rooting once in a while.

[Cakes]

swim has had constant yellowing of older leaves, and the color has never been right on any of the leaves. The new growth often looks good for a week or so, then the yellow mottling happens. Swim uses an acid fertilizer (17-6-6) with extra iron, and adds some mixed mineral supplement as well. The coca pH is adjusted to under 5 and the novo's pH is around 5.5.

Sounds like the low pH might be causing a lockout of calcium. It might be better to bring it up to about 6? Calcium def can make a plant's overall color appear off too.

Having "extra" iron can be kind of a funny pH/lockout issue too. the iron content in the coca's native soils might make it seem like the plant needs a lot of iron but the main role that iron in the soil plays is a pH stabilizer (it conducts the electricity, raises EEC capacity, makes the soil acidic). too much iron can lockout the calcium too.
so it's true that the plant grows in an iron soil, but most of that iron is locked into a substrate status, it's not actually a soluable and immediately available nute in huger quantities than other nutes.

most of the soils of the world are like that^^.
it is only the soils of the deserts and the river bottoms that are different to my knowledge; the river bottoms will be neutral and the deserts will be alkaline.

River bottom soil is not a bad idea to some degree. like i said, it is prone to being neutral but also it's silt is the "alluvial" soil that some coca soil is said to have in it. It is the worn rocks, the smallest particles of soil, the most available and obscure of minerals; and it may be why the grow texts for coca mention the dangers of erosion so often. because in the mountains when erosion happens, the alluvial soil washes away and there is no replacement for it like there is in the riverbasins where the silt gets replenished all the time from the draining down and washing of the surrounding countryside.

Alkaloid production in many plants is linked to high mineral content in the soil, so SWIM should keep up the good work there. Kelp is a good source of trace minerals because the kelp soaks up all the traces sent to the sea (so it shouldn't be collected from polluted places). there are also many rock fertilizers around, like granite dust has potassium, phosphate rock has P and greensand is pretty good. there are others. but also a good source is usually the dirt in SWIM's yard; getting a handful of different colored dirt everytime he goes on a trip is not a bad plan.

Most frequently a yellowing of the lower leaves means nitrogen deficiency. N def can also cause an all over light green color rather than the darker green. an N def is easy to imagine if SWIM is giving food only occasionally because the substrates he is using do not have any nutes of their own. After the food is dried up or washed out of the inert mediums, then the plant must subsist on it's own nitrogen reserves; and it can only do that a few days before it has to start robbing it's lower leaves to support the new top growth.

A good soil mix might be:

10% silt
20% humus/loam ("used up" compost, full of humates and fulvates)
20% fresh compost
25% iron clay based soil (like from most yards or pine forests)
25% composted wood bits or sand/grit

a mix like that will be best if it is either renewed from the top or by repotting. that means every few months SWIM can repot or else he could put new organic matter on top of the soil. putting it on top works well if there are worms in the mix; or else he can whiz it in a blender and pour the solution on the soil to get it to the lower soil. repotting 1 - 3 times a year still isn't a bad idea though.

I imagine that the coca could take some feeding beside the food that will be in that soil mix. The soil would feed okay for 6 weeks, but after that or before, SWIM can give supplemental food in his water.

[fnord]

how much coca plant would one need to extract 1 gram of coca extract?

[fnord]

Originally Posted by fnord

how much coca plant would one need to extract 1 gram of coca extract?

Ok,so in reference to yield how much could one expect to get of 20 plants started from rooted cuttings in a green house for one growing season.

Elevation: 267 ft / 81 m

[novo]

Thanks to all for the good SWIM advice. I wish I understood soil chemistry like cakes.
SWIM originally made a potting mix composed of soil from a forest with wild blueberries (focusing on worm casts under organic matter), sharp sand, a little bit each of black rock phosphate, greensand, fossilized seabird guano and dry humate. The mix was lightened up with peat moss and perlite. The plants were given rain water, with a little clay and fulvic acid, and mild organic hydro ferts. The plants were experiencing deficiencies so they were transplanted into Pro-mix and they did better, but still had problems. SWIM's research showed that E coca likes the soil very acid, and supposedly can't stand calcium (though I know this an essential nutrient, and is found in the leaf). The E novo's are supposed to grow best at a pH around 4.7 . SWIM wonders if testing pH with a liquid test kit is giving accurate readings. Other growers SWIM reads about seem to not test pH and the plants look fine. SWIM has been using reverse osmosis water and chem fertilizer for acid loving plants, and citric acid to adjust pH. The pH is always higher when the runoff water is tested, likely from buffers in the Pro-mix potting soil.

According to SWIM, the plants were started under flourescents and sunlight and were later moved under the 1000 MH. They are now 3-4 ' under the light, with the light on 24 hours a day. SWIM does not think the constant light is the problem. The E coca are probably 5 months old, well branched and some are flowering. The E novo var novo are 9 months old, lots of branches, and have flowered off and on for at least six months. No seeds have formed. Sometimes older leaves will be the problem, sometimes it will be middle leaves and sometimes the growing tips. Other times a lower branch will have green leaves while the rest of the plant is yellowing. Very frustrating for SWIM to say the least. Lots of early leaf drop with the affected leaves. SWIM has read just about all the growing info available on the web, including info from Java. SWIM wonders if it could be another problem like light spectrum or watering. SWIM lets the plants dry until the pot is light and it is dry 1/2-1". Very rarely will the plants start to wilt before water is applied. Some plants have leaves curled up on the edges like they are too wet or something, though they do dry out between waterings.

SWIM wonders why, but is now sprouting E novo var Truxillense. SWIM really hopes to figure out what the exact problem is so the new plants won't struggle like the others have. SWIM is willing to repot or change pH or anything else that will help.

[Cakes]

Yes, the liquid tests are accurate. The paper strip tests are not always though, especially if the substance is extremely aqueous.

It sounds like SWIM's plants are struggling with the acidic pH. Momentary lockup/lockouts causing transient, but classic, nutrient deficiency symptoms. maybe because of the method of acidification. In their native environment, the acidity is kind of a static thing, caused by the conductivity of the iron in the soil. But the peat, and the RO water and all, are pretty active.

maybe it is like if SWIM were standing on a really warm rock ledge. and the warmth under his feet would be comforting/stabilizing. but if the air was warm too, then it might be too much.

Coca's native environment, the lee side of that huge mountain range down there, is a moderately deep clay soil with very little difference in it's secondary and deeper clay layers (utilisol). The texts don't say first layer of the soil horizon is the same in clay, just the next ones. and also the soil is sometimes fragic. Fragic's consistancy is what I imagine humate to be. so I applaud SWIM's choice in that additive. It's a fine particle that can become hard like bone, but gets weaker in water. if a dried piece is immersed, it "slakes", like a fine film that comes off and mixes thoroughly i think they mean; very soluable like. Very fertile/available stuff maybe.

so. We are also thinking that the pH report that SWIM heard may be just a bit exaggerated. 4.7 is awfully darn low. It probably isn't taking into account the significant amount of fine organic material that accumulates on top of the soil. Plant material has a higher pH than the lower subsoils when it is fresh and if the organic materials undergo a composting process, then their pH will raise even more, it will be close to, if not exactly, neutral. But all of that happens in the top few inches of soil and soil tests are taken from deeper parts. All soil tests will specify the sample should be taken from 6 or more inches down. Generally, the deeper the test, the more accurate it is portrayed to be in some pH texts. So not only could the test be missing that top layer's influence, but also there is the small fact that the deeper one goes in a rainy region, the more acidic a clay soil can get. like gley soils in England. it is due to what happens to the iron; the condensing of it i think.

so to wrap it up, and since i did take a look at the maps, i will say that i doubt very much the soils in coca's native habitat have an average soil pH that low because the soil fertility maps would not show such a positive value for that area if the pH was that low.

and speaking of maps. maybe SWIM got ahold of a text that read like the one i just looked at, it described a utilisol (coca's native soil) as never existing "in calcerous soils". A phrase like that might lead someone to think that plants that grow in utilisol don't like calcium. but actually calcerous soils develop where it is arid. Everything after that (like the accumulation of calcium) is secondary, so a calcerous soil may be calcerous but it got that way by something that had nothing to do with calcium.

to a person studying soil, this makes sense because the classification of soils generally has to do with one main thing> How the soil developed. Coca's soil got that way from lots of rain. and calcerous soils got that way from no rain. <<that is why utilisols are said to never exist in conjunction with calcerous soils.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks for all your great posts in the coca forum and other Ethnos fora. Your knowledge of growing is a great asset.

[EarnestAccord]

Wow, I had no idea it was so hard to grow. SWIM recieved a cutting, planted it in generic potting soil with about 1/4 of that being worm castings and boom SWIM now has a bush two feet high. Did SWIM just luck out? Though to mention it SWIM did find all sorts of deficiency looking problems when SWIM first got the cuttings and they had to stay indoors a few week untill summer hit. But as soon as they were moved outdoors everything cleared up and mucho bueno..??.
SWIY mentioned above that SWIY had a coca go into flowering. How does one go about that? SWIM hasn't found information on how to do that nor has SWIM's coca done it on its own.

[novo]

Wow, great information cakes. I'm thinking SWIM would be smart to read up on utilisol soils. After reading what you wrote, and reading the pH cited by a grower in the Netherlands (between 5-6 for E coca), SWIM dropped the citric acid and increased the amount of fertilizer added to outdoor levels instead of the indoor levels recommended. SWIM thought about it and it seemed that under a 1000 W light, it was more like the outdoors, plus the plants have continued to grow despite regular leaf drop. They likely need more food. So far, SWIM sees an improvement. Time will tell, but at least SWIM is feeling better with the good support here. Interestingly, the report read by SWIM on pH for novo and coca was an indoor growing experiment to determine the pH and temperature for optimum biomass and cocaine content. The results gave very low pH for both plants, and I don't recall the exact pH SWIM read, but it was somewhere in the 3.5-4.5 pH range for coca and 4.5 to 6 for novo. E coca was said to die off early when the pH got over 6.5. Again, these figures aren't exact. I'll try to find the web address for that report. I know it's available in an abstract form on an Indonesian growers novo blog. Some good grow reports there as well.

Hi EarnestAccord, it sounds like SWIM is doing the right things for the cutting, and that kind of goes along with what I have been noticing, that the less complicated methods are getting good results. As far as the early flowering is concerned, SWIM was very surprised when they first started appeared, and has some theories about why it may have happened. First, with all the nutrient problems, there has been regular leaf drop. Flowers tend to form on the bare stems where leaves once were, and this goes along with what SWIM read, that there is often a flowering flush after leaf drop or defoliation. Also, it should be noted that SWIM is using a warm spectrum 1000 w metal halide with a 24 hour photoperiod. This may have either sped maturity, or triggered a hormonal response to reproduce. One more thought is that because of the nutrient problems, the plants have never looked like they had enough nitrogen, and in many plants, abundant N will hold off flowering in favor of leaf growth. SWIM hopes to get the plants healthy and bring them outdoors when it's warm to let the bees cross pollinate the plants for some berries and possibly some hybrids.

[Cakes]

planted it in generic potting soil with about 1/4 of that being worm castings and boom SWIM now has a...

^^i love this. and you are right, it is that easy. just like driving a car is easy. it isn't hard to make a car either, but some folks like to talk shop you know.

the plants have never looked like they had enough nitrogen

is this in relationship to other coca plants? or in relationship to SWIM's expectations? because it may be light or pH but also this>

I have read that coca gets harvested 2 - 6 times a year; and that the way to tell if it is ready to harvest is: the leaves crack and break when bent; and the leaves may have yellow tinge or yellow edges. and so i am thinking that maybe SWIM has a plant that needs regular harvesting. all that "leaf drop" might be what SWIM has been waiting for. it is the leaves becoming mature, getting dry and losing their chlorophyll and preparing to drop<<it is (may be) harvest time.

^^that makes especial sense if we are thinking that flower formation may 'naturally' follow this 'typical' leaf drop. it appears the plant may be doing natural cycles.

honestly I have had a hell of a time when trying to find pH readings online so good luck with that. it seems the major sources of info are begging us to share readings/thoughts on it. but as far as researching the existing taxonomy/basic soil structures down there, maybe my best advice would be to look at the inceptisols first. it's probably the most basic soil and then the lower soils will be like that inceptisiol but they will have more of the finer pieces because those pieces will have washed down from the inceptisol. Also their fertility goes up, probably due to the higher numbers/accumulation of those fine pieces that get washed down; more plants will be growing there so the vegetative/organic content in the soil will be higher too.

coca native soils.jpg

most, if not all, the soils that coca is grown in down there will derive from the mountain top soil. good menomic>>the INCEPTIsol was there at the inception.

the inceptisol is the mountain tops and the utilisol is the lee side of the mountain where the accumulation of fine particles allows it's UTILIzation as an agricultural medium.

There is another map in the file archive that shows exactly where the utilisols are; and there is a text file that goes with it that tells the definition of utilisols and all soil types of that sort:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/loc...s.php?catid=46

SWIM hopes to get the plants healthy and bring them outdoors when it's warm to let the bees cross pollinate the plants for some berries and possibly some hybrids.

I read that when those berries are fully grown then they are picked and allowed to ripen off the vine; idk why off the vine. maybe so there is less seed loss? and maybe it speeds the coca onto it's next cycle; idk. But the 'drupes' are allowed to ripen until they are soft (maybe the seeds need further maturing?). and then the pulp is washed off the seeds. and then the seeds are dried.

^^that was interesting to me because in some plants, the seed pulp is necessary for seed germination. the seeds need to ferment in it a bit. and then after that the seeds can be removed and dried. if the seeds were removed and dried too quickly, then the seeds can be fermented in something else and then used; it doesn't have to be their own juices, just a like substance.

I also read that when SWIM wants seeds, he needs to use plants that were grown from seed; because if a coca plant was grown from a cutting (is a clone), then it's seeds will not be viable.

Also, it should be noted that SWIM is using a warm spectrum 1000 w metal halide with a 24 hour photoperiod. This may have either sped maturity, or triggered a hormonal response to reproduce.

This is quite likely and very interesting, thanks for sharing.

[novo]

Yes, I have considered that SWIM's plants were going through somewhat of a natural leaf drop, although they yellowed before they should have. I think I have read 35-50 days is about the life of a leaf before it is nearly ready to drop. SWIM's plants may have a nice flush of green leaves, and then very soon, the oldest leaves of the flush starts getting yellow between the veins and edges. The newer leaves even have a slight mottling still, even after this great new flush (though the leaves are still greener than before). Most pictures I see of coca plants show that the stems are usually pretty bare with a flush of growth at the ends of the branches.

The E coca in general looks better than SWIM's E novo var novo. The novo is always deficient looking, and at best will put out a couple of healthy leaves before they quickly look mottled and yellow, then drop. Often, there will be a leaf drop after a watering, and a new flush of leaves will form. SWIM is hoping the increased fertilizer and higher pH will change that. It's not unusual for things to be looking healthy only to swing back to sad in a few days.

I wonder how much others are watering novo and coca? SWIM waits until the pot is light, though there is still some moisture an inch or so in the soil. Then usually enough water is applied until there is some drainage. Fertilizer is used every watering as recomended on the label. There is very little salt build up in the drainage holes, so SWIM doesn't think overfertilization is a problem. Also, the plants have greened up since the fert amounts were increased. Still, I think the pH needs fine tuning. I'll try to find the pH article and post hte web address.

You are correct that E coca must have another coca plant for reproduction as they are self sterile. From what I have read, only E novo var novo is self fertile. A grower in Indonesia has only one plant, and has been offering seed of this plant for sale. He got his original seed from a single plant in a botanical garden, so these seeds are quite inbred. SWIM hopes to cross the Indonesian plants to E novo var truxillense, for the added hybrid vigor. It looks like one of SWIM's E coca plants has a berry trying to form. Most flowers drop after a few days of opening, but this one looks like it is swelling. The seeds of Erythroxylum for sale are often sent in the berry in moist straw or moss, and the berry is usually pretty rotten. I think the viability is higher with seed planted while still fresh, though it is good that you can dry them for the longer term.

Thanks for sharing those maps cakes. I have not had much time with the computer, so I haven't had much chance to study them

Reputation Comments on this post:

keep the good info coming

[asdasdasd]

Swim lives in italy, his city is full of hills and his house is on a hill (not rome btw... italy is all on hills exept Padan Plain)... maybe he could give a try lol!!!

[Cakes]

Boy you aren't kidding! that place looks covered in mountains. Also nice temps and rainfall for coca. it looks like the area outside Naples is where a lot of hemp is grown too.

1000 MH. They are now 3-4 ' under the light

These lights can be kept closer for other plants but it might make it a little warmer than SWIM wants, huh? a cooling hood might not be a bad afternoon project for SWIM some day if he ever wanted to try that light at close distances; cooling hoods don't always work but usually they can let a light be within a foot or even inches of the plants.

You are correct that E coca must have another coca plant for reproduction as they are self sterile. From what I have read, only E novo var novo is self fertile.

actually I didn't know that and I am glad that I now do. thank you. In my comments above what I was trying to say is that clones are sterile. Cuttings are good because they mature fast, like their harvest can begin in half the time of a seed grown plant; so clones get used a lot, but the text I saw said that clones are sterile. So even though they may produce flowers in half the time that seed plants will, the seed from a clone lacks an embryonic center and so clone seed is not viable <or at least thought not to be by one text writer, because i haven't actually tried it personally and i have only seen it written in that one text so far.

Most pictures I see of coca plants show that the stems are usually pretty bare with a flush of growth at the ends of the branches.

This varies with strain. some have foliage at the ends but others have leaves along the lower branch as well.

I think I have read 35-50 days

that is not far off the time I have in my notes. mine says 2 - 6 times a year but i am pretty sure that it was specifically referring to outside cultivation. the variance, if water related, may be due to greater moisture in different elevations and/or the fact that some areas have more than one season where rainfall increases (like Bogota does).

I wonder how much others are watering novo and coca?

I was just looking at the weather charts for Bolivia and it looks like they might be moist all the time down there. They are getting the most water during their 'warmer' season rather than the winter like my house. Even the very tall mountain tops (too tall for coca) are getting four inches of water per month in their 'dry' season<<one inch a week is what garden books recommend for vegetable gardens, although i sure water a lot more.

Lower elevations like where coca is grown might get 2.5x the rainfall that the highest mountains do, like 70 inches a year rather than 20 inches. <<that higher figure is about right for veggies in my area.

I have seen text that says the ancestral variety of coca is found in "moist tropical forests". The Trujillo variety of novo is said to be more drought resistant. the fact that they called it drought resistant might mean that it tolerates drought rather than liking it. The Trujillo is thought to be maybe the daddy to the novo novo.

if the novo novo is linking it's flowering schedule to it's water supply then it may be revealing important things about it's horticultural nature. There is a class of plants that DO link their reproduction to their water/dry cycle. This class of plants can also share some other traits. like they can be sensitive to fertilizers during flower (can't take N (maybe other ferts too*) and they can be sensitive to pH (if they areen't acid or alkaline lovers then they may, alternatively, need cool temps to flower).
^all three of those traits are not always present in each plant that belongs in the class but they can be^.

I, personally, don't see ANY problem with a grow that naturally defoliates and regrows in a mad cycle. as long as the leaf product was good of course. Also the fact that their flowering is scanty right now isn't really call for alarm since they are so young and this plant is said to mature with age. But if (later) there is a prob and it is lack of prolonged flowering or needing a higher quality of flower, then maybe they need a more constant water supply and then plain water once flowering begins (plain since SWIM has good soil, not if SWIM didn't).

*maybe other ferts too>i say this because i realize my info is very short compared to what may be out there. i, personally, have noticed that any extra N can make a nice flowering plant stop it's flowering and begin another cycle. but i know little of other nutes in that respect except to say that it is also common for grapes not to be fed phosphorus><and grapes are kind of like drupes.

and outstanding soil choices btw. i gotta mention that. i was rereading your post and realized i got caught up on other stuff and never commented what great choices SWIM has in his mix.

We have been talking about what the native soils might be like down in South America and I have a bit more info to add about that. I saw a small note in a coca text about the Cuzco area not being high in iron. and I didn't mention it because I thought it was probably a small area and maybe just another one of those interesting anomalies that pop up. But I finally tracked it down a little and it seems that the area is actually dead center to where coca's ancestral home is down there. I say it is the home because i read coca originates from the "eastern Andes of Peru and Bolivia" so this place Cuzco is mid-latitude to both their borders and just to the east of line drawn up the middle of the Andes.

there are alternative spellings for Cuzco<one reason it took me a minute to begin looking at that area. my home map says Cusco. large lakes and wetlands to the east. Aridsols to the far south. huge rich valleys (possibly close to neutral in pH?).

[60sguy]

None of my friends have grown this plant. However being a gardener I have numerous friends that have a hobby of growing exotic plants out of their native habitat.

What these individuals have found is that it without regular trips to these exotic locals with pH meters and soil tests they had to find what worked for the plant in their area. These individuals made numerous clones of plants and like your research attempted to duplicate the conditions. Unfortunately in green houses or other situations one inch off inch of X pH then a change was very difficult to duplicate and test. However six pots of a species were set up and being in an alkaline area pH was lowered to various levels with phosphoric and nitric acid all with the same substrate and nutrition. With some species the pH was a major factor in early growth with pH needs changing as the plant matured as in nature growing into substrates with different pH during development. My friend killed some varieties of the same species that had different needs. Something to be expected. With each species and strains within the species similar tests were made, using different substrates some completely foreign to the plants natural environment; examples 100% coco coir, coco and manures. Imported soils, soil mixes, etc. Then nutrient tests, addition of soil micro organisms etc.

A large chore, not for a hobbyist more of an adventure. In three years optimal conditions were found for each type of plant leaving many dead ones during the experimentation phase.

All though this post does not address the plant you are growing the same experimentation should prove results. In some instances mixes such as highly composted manure, coco coir, perilite, organic nutrients determined by test, pH alterations, ozmosis filtered and adjusted water, etc. Yielded plants that were vigorous in growth and similar to those harvested in their natural state.

The plant that you are growing is fascinating, and some of my friends may decide to make an attempt.
Few individuals take the time to learn all the needs of a plant be it a pepper or a bougainvillea. Sounds like your friends are on the right track and thought the isolated control and tests that others have found so useful might be of interest.

[Heliosphan]

Can you guys help please. Swim has a young Novo and there may be a fungus.

Leaves are developing a black spot and often eventually on the entire leaf. The affected leaves then dry out and fall off. The growing tips of the stems look a bit black too. It is growing a lot of new leaves, but they are turning black, dry out, and fall off. What could this be and how can it be remedied?

[Cakes]

if it is a mold, SWIM can try a spray. to do it organically, he can try baking soda (bicarbonate of soda). try it on a few leaves and wait a day to make sure there is no damage since it is a new thing. SWAN has not heard of it on coca yet but it works for many other plants so it is unlikely there will be trouble.

1 quart of water (1 liter)

1/2 teaspoon baking soda, or 1 t. for stubborn control
(2.5 cc/ml or two times that for stubborn control)

spray all leaves over and under; once every three days. if lots of this alkaline water goes into the soil it could affect pH; tipping the plant to let run-off hit the ground while spraying can help; or a towel can work. flush the soil in case of accident like a spill.

ok>that recipe kills powdery mildew and other things very well, but just fyi, i will say that i have tried baking soda on my roses and used it in amounts that were a lot more than that recipe. like 2 tablespoons per cup. but that is for SWIM to decide because coca may not be a rose. maybe to test on a few leaves and then decide. also there are other things, like commercial anti-fungal things, but that is for SWIM to decide too. also vinegar works good but the baking soda is better (maybe because it doesn't dissipate like the vinegar does). alternating them might have value, idk. 2 teaspoons vinegar (10ml) per liter of water; apple vinegar is okay to use, it adds minerals. the vinegar is good for when there are live flower pistils showing that want to be preserved.

Mold can be helped a lot by keeping the air flow going. mold needs a moist place to live so if the flowing air can keep the plant surfaces dry it can make a big difference. <<using a fan after watering is standard practice in SWAN's garden if she can manage. keeping it on all the time is good for mold in humid grows and will increase total plant respiration<means more growth and also more water needed and also more heat stress possible. air filters of ONA will kill mold and are about $20 USD homemade; hydro stores sell many versions. also the surfaces of the grow room can harbor spores. like in the soil, SWIM can kill colonies just by lightly scratching the soil surface. also he can smother them by putting down a light coating of new soil after the scratching. if he had room, it is even possible to pour on a new coat of dry sterile soil after each watering in times of trouble. Bleaching all surrounding walls is good too; like diluted bleach on a rag/sponge and wiping surfaces. maybe one part bleach to 7 of water. he could easily make it less strong if it was a surface that may actually get bleached. but SWAN likes lots cause she grows in a bathroom and it can be very humid in there. she actually uses straight bleach from the bottle whenever possible.

mold resistance increases when the plant's cell walls are strong. in marijuana culture this is done with good potassium availability and with chitosan (foliars are good).

Black spots can also be nute related (in other plants) if it isn't a fungus. it can be an overdose (nitrogen i think, although i suspect coca would get yellow bubbly spots first); or it could be a phosphorus deficiency (found on middle-aged leaves).

or it might be the moon. if so, she'll prolly feel better next month.

[Benga]

this thread is starting to get very interesting. The wiki's coca article needs work in its coca growing section, if someone would like to add input, it would be great.
started compiling what we have here already, but greenthumb experience is appreciated.

b

[60sguy]

Swim might try another organic method of curing fungus and some other plant ills.

In the mid 90s a prestigious Southern university in the US discovered that fungus could be controlled by a distribution of whole corn meal over the surface of the soil.

However later they and other researchers retracted the statement but the practice caught on in the South were humid, damp conditions were often the norm.

Gardeners used an uneconomical amount of corn meal. More than a farmer would use, approximately 1/4 inch over potted plants and gardens and turned under and watered in. Similar treatments were reported to be used to wipe out brown spot on St. Augustine grass.

Feed stores around major metropolitan areas sell thousands of bags with no advice, just stating they have a lot of repeat customers.

I have a friend that purchased a 50 lb. bag of whole ground corn meal and wiped out all the fungus and spots on a variety of ornamental and culinary herbs.
Roses, rosemary, zinnias, as well as repeated applications to brown patch with additional fertilizer and water.

Searches across the web will bring many results but the theory is that the corn meal fosters a fungus, Trichoderma that creates a chemical benign to humans but attacks other fungal and possibly other pathogens.

My friend was told that it also acts as a natural fertilizer and may be high in nitrogen. Witnessing my friends plants change in 7 days was amazing. Brown patch took repeated treatments.

His problems were seasonal such as the spring fuzzy white fungus on rosemary to continuing problems with zinnias that required monthly to bi monthly treatments.

Will it work on swims plants? Possibly however maintaing all other elements such as soil aeration, pH levels for swims plants, proper nutrient balance considering the addition of the corn meal. The corn meal must be whole grain; often located at feed stores, natural food stores, and occasionally at grocery stores. Read the labels carefully.

I certainly don't want to contradict any of the other posters views on plant ills. I simply have observed some radical improvement in what could be called a controversial chemical treatment of my friends plants and yard. The chemical being the substance created from the fungus breaking down the corn meal and then absorbed by the diseased plants roots. Since it is not an economically viable alternative for the agricultural industry little if any more research will be done. Crop rotation and other treatments work on the original plant tested, peanuts. Should covering the field with a quarter inch of cornmeal duplicate the first positive tests it still would not be a viable option due to the high cost relative to other methods available. However for small applications it is a very economical approach.

Swim might try this on one plant, turning the meal in well and watering. My friend did not do this on large areas of his flower garden, and although the results were achieved a solid cake of deteriorating corn meal does not create a pleasant odor. Smaller amounts turned under on a periodic basis in my friends potted plants achieved the same results.

Around where the discovery was first made radio commentators and garden stores often stock corn meal. Approximately 90% of the gardeners of ornamental plants, and edible plants such as rosemary use the treatment. Should swim have luck with this method his friends might test it on other plants as well that are not as frequently discussed by our public orators.

[SpaceKitten]

SWIM in another town in norther europe tried to grow e. coca just for fun,
in the beginnng he thought i killed it due to bad handling first(it was a small seedling) after some serious prob , didnt like to be put straight under 250hps, (leaf yellowed again looked like dying, and was under florus for a while ,
it seems to have adjusted its now under a 250hps, in a plastic baggie, swim tried to poke several holes in th e bage wich made it curl up and again dying leafs, so now its back under the hps with 1 tiny tiny hole th plastic baggie is real foggy and plants seem to love it new leafs coming all the time,

as for "special expensive soil , dont bother swim used regular soil and just added a small amount of normal fertilizer, my point is dont give up

/love kitten

[Cocagrower]

I have been trying to grow e coca and novo for years with varied success. I presently have a LARGE # of E coca and e Novo growing out doors at sealevel. I live in a tropical climate in the virgin islands and am doing very well. The seedling are growing well and healthy looking. I have done lots of research over the years and have grown them hydroponically also. The alcoloid yeild is good on the leaves even at sealevel. I have made tea on many occassions and it is of good quality. My only compaint is that when they are young they grow very slow. I have at least 200 e coca and 40 e novo. I actually had over 500 seedlings but have thinned them out.

On a seperate note I have been trying to process leaves into paste with not good luck. I get hung up in the final stage when seperating the kerosene and then adding acid/h2O and then the carbonate(how much and how do you know when to stop adding) How much is the minimum amount of leaves. I presently have to vats going one has 1000 gms and the other has 1600gms is this enough to get precipitate. Hope someone knows?

Look forward to learning and sharing

[Cocagrower]

Soil that is good for coca is, 1 part coca coir 1 part red akadama(clay available at bonsai) 1 part kiriu (river soil from bonsai supply) 1 part kanuma(low ph clay).Order all in the small size for better root growth. The red akadama has soo many elements and so does the kanuma.

all of the materials are volcanic type clay and is imported from japan and used in the bonsai industry.Very closely resembles the iron and low ph soil needed. You can leave out the kiriu if you cannot find,it is very scarce.

[BluntSkunk]

is it a plausible method of getting personal?


how long does it take and how much do u need, could u use a standard hydro kit to make lets say an ounce any one with any experience?

[Benga]

Cocaine is made from coca leaves. Coca isn't cocaine.


the answer to your questions are no.


you need a lot, it won't have enough alkaloidsif you do grow coca athome, and to make "an ounce" you would need hundreds of kilos of leaves, plus training.


forget it and read up on the forum, on coca that is....