Tramadol Withdrawal

[TRAMADOL]

Hello everyone, this is my first post on the forum, and I am hoping for a little advice/help with SWIM's little Tramadol problem.

SWIM has been using Tramadol for several months now, and started quitting today. SWIM has used Tramadol for an extended period before and knows what to expect, which is to be honest what scares SWIM.

The last time SWIM quit SWIM went cold turkey and SWIM really did go like a cold turkey. SWIM had goose bumps, and went from boiling hot to freezing cold non stop. It was exactly like a really bad flu but with terrible depression and anxiety on top.

This time SWIM's intending to gradually reduce his dose over three weeks. This is because SWIM read that tapering down would reduce withdrawal symptoms. And SWIM was on 400mg a day split into 100mg doses every 6 hours in order to keep SWIM's blood levels stable because if SWIM went too long between doses SWIM felt terrible.
Also SWIM read that kicking Tramadol takes one week sio SWIM thought that it would make sense to reduce the dose once per week once SWIM's body effectively got acclimatised to the new dose.


SWIM has a few questions, the first is has anyone here used the tapering off method with Tramadol before?...if so SWIM would love to hear about any experiences you had etc.

The second is, SWIM read that someone here posted that Tramadol withdrawal lasts a week. But from SWIM's previous experience with it he seems to remember it taking about 14-17 days?...

Third thing is, is there anything SWIM can take that SWIM can buy from a regular pharmacy without a prescription (SWIM lives in the UK), or are there any supplements that SWIM may find helpful?, SWIM heard that Passionflower may help?...
SWIM want's to avoid St Johns Wort for fear of suffering Serotonin Syndrome. But SWIM intends to take lots of vitamins, minerals and anti-oxidants as SWIM already does.

SWIM lift's weights regularly (every other day) and cycle's on SWIM's off days. SWIM Hopes that this will help bring SWIM's endorphin levels back to normal as soon as possible.

Also does anyone think that the withdrawal will be as terrible as the last time because as I said before SWIM said that they were very nasty.
SWIM even considered seriously staying them for life as SWIM does enjoy them and SWIM absolutely hated the withdrawal.

A bit about why SWIM started using them in the first place is probably appropriate.
Well, SWIM started taking them because SWIM hurt his back weight training, and carried on taking them because his best friend died and didn't think that he could cope with the withdrawal on top of his grief. Plus SWIM feels better on them than off, even after quitting.
He says that if he's honest he will miss them. And if only SWIM could find a way of feeling this good naturally, SWIM would be a very happy man.

So I suppose that naturally leads me on to why SWIM's quitting, so here they are in no particular order.
If SWIM misses a dose SWIM immediately starts to feel bad.
SWIM doesn't really have the money for them.
SWIM doesn't like being dependant on anything.
SWIM doesn't like knowing that SWIM couldn't travel abroad with the habit (not that SWIM does).
Alcoholism and drug addiction runs in SWIM's family so SWIM wants to make sure that SWIM doesn't end up the same way.
Working out doesn't give SWIM the same sense of well being it did. Which makes it less rewarding which reduces SWIM's desire to do it, which will obviously affect SWIM's overall long term health which SWIM thinks is very important.
There are probably a million other reasons I remember that he said but I can't remember them now off the top of my head.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, and hopefully someone may be able to offer some help to SWIM, I know he'd appreciate it.

[trptamene]

First thing, get off the seretonin high before writing a shit ton of questions lol!

I have successfully employed tapering w/ rx'ed tramadol. Unlike the doctors say ultram def. can cause physical addiction & stopping cold turkey is not a good idea when one is taking the 200-400mg dose for months on end...

These are a lot of questions here, but one seems to already know what to do & definately is making it more of a process than I and that it likely needs to be. If one is only dropping off from a 200mg dose 2 weeks should be plenty of time to level off w/o feeling ill effects.

[TRAMADOL]

have successfully employed tapering w/ rx'ed tramadol.

Thanks, how did you go about reducing them?, as I said SWIM decided on reducing his weekly based on it taking a week to kick the habit.

These are a lot of questions here, but one seems to already know what to do & definately is making it more of a process than I and that it likely needs to be.

SWIM really doesn't know much at all it's just been guesswork based on what he's read. Seems like SWIM's not making any major mistakes though from what you've said.
And the last time SWIM went cold turkey and he had a very bad experience so that's the reason for looking into it a lot more this time. Thanks for your reply.

[Esmerelda]

Hey,

How's it going since you posted that?

Swim's used tramadol in the past and agrees the withdrawal is nasty. Not as bad physically as stronger opiates but she found the depression was worse (probably due to the SSRI effects of tramadol).

Stick it out - it's really worth it. You sound like someone who takes care of themselves in other respects so focus on that, and how you want to look after your body. When swim was on tramadol for a long time she found her health was subtley but significantly effected. In fact, surprisingly her health suffered more from long term tramadol use than from heroin. This was partly because she didn't make an effort to take breaks or control her use. She was doing 200-500 a day.

Once you're off the tramadol St John's Wort is probably okay to take. Ideally you should wait a couple of weeks, but there are no reports of serotonin syndrome occurring from low doses of tramadol with St John's Wort, and no reports of deaths from St Johns Wort and Tramadol at any dose. If I were you I'd start at a very low dose of the SJW a couple of days after you've stopped the tramadol completely. Then build up slowly. Swim did this and agrees it helps.

If you're still at the tapering stage, or having trouble, I'll happily answer any more questions.

[Razorblade]

Originally Posted by Esmerelda

Hey,

Once you're off the tramadol St John's Wort is probably okay to take.

Some studies have shown that St. John's Wort is not generally recommended for males due to it's possible link to hormone production. 5-HTP would probably be a better choice. Tapering the dose is always a good way to stop using, but take into consideration that Tramadol is not chemically addictive (at least it's claimed not to be) and Opiate withdrawal sucks, however is not fatal. With the Quantity and frequency noted, the withdrawal will more than likely be minimal and short lived

[beena]

St John's Wort shouldn't really be taken in conjunction with any SSRI type of medicines so SWIM definately shouldn't take it whilst taking tramadol ...

SWIM has been taking tramadol for two years continuous use. She also was taking 400mg a day at one time and managed to successfully cut right down from 400mg tramadol to 50mg of tramdol by this following method that is pretty easy to stick too:

Day One: 200mg tramadol morning (first thing to stop that head spinning and 200mg tramadol evening (just before going to bed).
Day Two: Same as above
Day three: 200mg tramadol morning and 150mg tramadol evening
Day Four: Same as day three.
Day Five: 150mg tramadol morning and 150mg tramadol evening
Day Six: Same as day five.
Day Seven: 150mg tramadol morning and 100mg tramadol evening
Day Eight: Same as day seven
Day Nine: 100mg tramadol morning and 100mg tramadol evening
Day Ten: Same as day ning
Day Eleven: 100mg tramadol morning and 50mg tramadol evening
Day Twelve: Same as day eleven
Day Thirteen: 50mg tramadol morning and 50mg tramadol evening
Day Fourteen: Same as day thirteen
Day Fifteen: 50mg tramadol morning.

See, it's fairly easy to do this ... SWIM used to take 400mg in the morning but the reason she split the dose between the morning and the evening was because she started to suffer with withdrawal effects in her sleep and would suffer sleep-paralysis which was really horrific and frightening. She successfully got down to 50mgs but every now and then she does still top-up her dose. SWIY will need strong willpower to successfully get off tramadol and more importantly to stay off tramadol.
SWIM hasn't been able/felt ready to make that last step to come off these meds completely but she spoke to her drug-worker who told her that if she was finding it too difficult to cut down from the last 50mls what she could do was empty some of the 50ml tramadol capsule that she takes out and try and reduce by roughly an eighth a day (so from 50mgs to 42mgs then to 35mgs and so on). Of course with capsules it would only be a rough guess as to how much SWIY is reducing by each time but at least SWIY would know he was making progress.

Oh yeah ... SWIM forgot to wish you good luck!

Reputation Comments on this post:

	excellent post. thanks for your input.
	excellent method of tapering that I have printed out for m to use...eventually..thanks

[yaba]

Swim went cold turkey, not nice !! Shakes, sweating at night and hard to go to work. Swim found it hard but it can be done! needed a sick note for a week plus onother week of. He thought some diazepam could have helped.

[youdontknow]

thats wierd, i didnt thing tramadol was even a real opiate. SWIM has tried it before and it felt like a was high on weed. SWIM hated it. To tell you the truth its PROB more of a psychological addiction for real.

[chillinwill]

tramadol definitely can cause addiction since it is a synthetic opiate but its not as strong as say heroin or morphine.....tramadol also is a SSRI in a sense and when detoxing off of it can cause seizures due to the effects it has on the serotonin reuptake....one might not feel the tramadol high if they are used to more powerful opiates such as oxy's, morphine, heroin, etc

[fiveleggedrat]

Tramadol is 100% an opioid. Others might deny or complain about it, but Swim used to nod on it like it was heroin. Used to produce insane amounts of euphoria. Swim also never got many of those nasty SSRI/SNRI effects. Usually only worse nausea than most other opioids.

Swim's first opioid was tramadol, and he has extensive experience with it. And yes, physical or w/d symptoms can happen from both SSRI aspect and opioid aspect.
Tramadol works very different on everyone.

[beena]

Indeed ... SWIM once accidentally ran out of tramadol whilst away on holiday and was therefore forced into withdrawals. She felt terrible. She had never and would never have purposely stopped taking tramadol suddenly like that and so wasn't prepared at all for the severe withdrawal that followed: full-on flu-like symptoms, shivery skin, hot and cold flushes, nausea and depression as one would expect from a proper opiate and on top of that you have the SSRI-sudden withdrawal effects too - brain zaps or shivering: every time you move your head the room seems to spin. It was truely horrible.
Don't think that because the euphoric effects of a drug seem less than another that the withdrawal will be equally as mild: it just doesn't work that way.

[Panthers007]

It made Bongo feel hot and strange - like being itchy - inside his skull. He attributed this to the SSRI-effects. He took it for pain from dental problems. He said to hell with it and switched to ibuprofen instead.

[fiveleggedrat]

It's sad that many do not like tramadol. It really is interesting that it produced such powerful, extremely positive effects for Swim.

[beena]

Oh, SWIM just doesn't like the severe withdrawal symptoms that tramadol can produce and the difficulty that SWIM has had when trying to cut down. SWIM knows that she is addicted to tramadol both physically and mentally and that pisses SWIM off: she doesn't like to have any drug having control over her. On the plus side though tramadol is the only prescribed medicine that SWIM has taken that is an effective anti-depressant. Traditional anti-depressants have never worked for SWIM and prozac in particular left SWIM feeling suicidal and unable to even leave her front door: that particular medication SWIM had a severe negative reaction too ... but tramadol still to this day work effectively for SWIM as an anti-depressant and if she could get her dosage back down to 50mgs and not be tempted into increasing it again then she would be quite happy to take it as an anti-depressant (she just wishes the medical authorities would also recognise it as a good anti-depressant so as she could get her own legal prescription for it and not have to reply on others).
SWIM believes tramadol is a better anti-depressant in many ways because it begins to work about 30 minutes after taking it, whereas with traditional anti-depressants you're looking at two weeks for them to really kick in ... not very helpful for someone with severe clinical depression - two weeks is a long time to suffer mentally - also the medical authorities are so quick at handing out prozac and the like despite the negative research that has been conducted in recent years showing people feeling suicidal, some even committing suicide whilst taking it - and we're often talking about people who weren't suicidal when they began taking the medication.
SWIM hasn't heard of anyone having negative effects from the serotonin side of tramadol - SWIM thinks the main thing is if they were prescribed for this and monitored closely then for someone like SWIM when they wanted to come off them it could be done properly with her GP's guidance and help. As it is SWIM's doctor is unaware of her usage and that is why it has a habit of fluctuating up and down which is obviously not good. SWIM has been saying quite a lot of negative things about tramadol on this thread (mainly because the initial question was about tramadol withdrawal which SWIM has had plenty of experience of - and it ain't pleasant), but SWIM truely believes there are a lot of really positive and useful qualities about tramadol. SWIM just believes that it is at present not being used for its full potential. Also as a recreational drug it is not particularly good: at first SWIM enjoyed it and experienced significant euphoria from it (although it seems many people like Panthers have never got any 'buzz' from it at all: SWIM has heard many people describe it as 'hot and itchy' in fact!), but any highs are short-lived, tolerance quickly builds up and unlike morphine and other opiates where you can improve the effects by taking a short break, therefore lowering tolerance, it does seem that once tolerance has been built up to tramadol it never really goes again. It's a shame actually.

[Panthers007]

If it works for SWIM with severe clinical depression, then by all means - let SWIM proceed. In a worst case scenario, the withdrawl is eminently survivable - though nasty. But I'd council SWIM to keep their ears to the rails for any new ideas. I would hope SWIM has a doctor, or similar, that can be confided in and told about this usage. Not just to secure further assistance in supply - possibly - but to try to get this use known and approved by the powers-that-be. I'm sure there are many people with severe depression that this course of action could help who don't gain any benefit from the current model of treatment.

[beena]

The reason SWIM can't tell her doctor that she is taking tramadol for her depression is that the person SWIM currently gets her tramadol supply from is in fact living with SWIM and also has the same doctor as SWIM so it wouldn't take said doctor long to figure out what was occuring and as tramadol aren't licensed to be prescribed for depression in the UK it wouldn't really make a difference if SWIM's doctor truely believed her reasoning - doctor's hands are tied. This is a sad and unfortunate position to be in because SWIM would love to tell her doctor what was working for her: not for supply (she already has a steady and plentiful one anyway) but mainly so as others could possibly benefit from her experience as you say, the system in England at the minute is well below-par.

[nikky36]

SWIM has noticed that just about a day and half after taking last dose the withdrawals kick in,SWIM cannot stand the intense stomach cramps,nausea,sweating and depression,SWIM initially thought she could take codeine one day and tramadol the next to cut down on costs but SWIMS body looks for the tramadol every time,this isnt the time for SWIM to detox,SWIM would rather have her addiction right now..............

[sarbanes]

There is one easy way to get off tramadol. You gradually titrate down (or taper). But you really must be organised. Print up an Excel spread sheet with dates on left column, and time of day/evening on right. Write down how many tablets when. Say you need at least 12 tablets a day just to feel semi-normal, start with 12 1st few days, then go down to 11 next day, then back up to twelve, then to 11, then 11 for maybe 4-5 days, then 10, etc. Be organised about and work out. Really, this is the simplest, best, and most elegant way to get off a drug. The idea with this type of taper is you can get high the 1st day of your taper (take as much tramadol as you want), and you just go down from there (how ever long it works). An added benefit with tramadol (or other pharmaceutical) is you know your dose (unlike street drugs, often times), so you can control for actual dosage, and really taper.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Good post.
	great idea!
	For the Excel idea. But it's better to put results in as you go and watch your progress! I even did a graph myself! lol

[lorzapmail]

Tramadol has about everything mentioned there is about it, so just a few words. It is indeed and opioid and has really bad stomach cramps during W/D's. Again Swim is preaching lorermide (imodium). It truely works for tramadol. 4 mg every 4 hours. Also plenty of B-Complex, potassium, banannas, sun light D3. Valiums or Clonzeapam long half life benzos. If you cannot get benzos get blood pressure meds. During withdrawal your pressure will go way up. Drink lots of water and green tea, the green tea is great for stomach problems not to mention antioxidents. (In fact swim has 4 or 5 glass of green tea a day.) If tramadol was not so easy to get we would not have to go through this so often. Follow this for 4 days and you'll be fine and then you can do it all over again and again and again.

[dyingtomorrow]

SWIM wishes he had never tried H, so things like bupe or tramadol or pills or whatever could actually make him feel good and not just feel like cheap, dirty knockoffs.

I had no idea withdrawals could be even so bad for a weak opiate. Here SWIM's feeling good getting down to 1 mg of suboxone, and that shit is probably like 5x stronger than some tramadol. Not looking forward to withdrawals

[beena]

^ SWIM knows that feeling all too well: SWIM has a ready supply of tramadol and morphine tablets but neither work as well as they used to cos of the heroin ... so SWIM keeps taking the heroin, but then she still uses the tramadol and other opiates too to stave off withdrawals and depression when she crashes on the days she can't get anything. It's a never ending cycle of drug-abuse ... SWIM was clean for three weeks in September too (went away to get clean) but then blew it totally within days of being back in London. Today SWIM is feeling really low ...

Yeah, SWIM also thinks it is amazing how the withdrawals from something that is not even a proper opiate can be so bad. The withdrawal from Tramadol is different from the withdrawal from heroin but it is still very, very bad. SWIM doesn't suffer as much with it though just because she has a ready supply ... SWIM isn't looking forward to the day she actually really wants to try and stop - it's not gonna be pleasant!

[lorzapmail]

Originally Posted by beena

Indeed ... SWIM once accidentally ran out of tramadol whilst away on holiday and was therefore forced into withdrawals. She felt terrible. She had never and would never have purposely stopped taking tramadol suddenly like that and so wasn't prepared at all for the severe withdrawal that followed: full-on flu-like symptoms, shivery skin, hot and cold flushes, nausea and depression as one would expect from a proper opiate and on top of that you have the SSRI-sudden withdrawal effects too - brain zaps or shivering: every time you move your head the room seems to spin. It was truely horrible.
Don't think that because the euphoric effects of a drug seem less than another that the withdrawal will be equally as mild: it just doesn't work that way.

..............
Again, get some imodium (lopermide)4mg every 4 hours, take B-Complex,take potassium (bananas), lots of water, clear soda if you have to have it, Chicken noddle soup and jello.4 days and your ok. I never had RlS with Tramadol an have taken up to 1000mg of the crap.My problem was stomach aches and the runs (no nice wa to put it) Low grade opioid. Avoid the tramadol/Soma trap.

[beena]

lorzapmail: do you mind me asking how long SWIY was taking tramadol for? SWIM has been using for over two years now continously (never at the levels you mentioned mind you: the most SWIM was taking was 400mgs a day, and now that's down to 100mgs a day, but it is continous use). The withdrawals SWIM would get now if she tried to stop would be far worse than say, even six months ago ... it begins with brain zaps which are associated with comming off SSRI drugs and then sleep paralysis happens at night (which scares the shit out of SWIM), then headaches followed by flu-like symptoms and lethargy and depression. SWIM has had the runs too, but stomach cramps, thankfully, weren't a problem.
SWIM gathers your remedy would take care of the stomach problems and perhaps help with the flu-like symptoms but what SWIM's main concern is, is the brain zaps and sleep paralysis that she would suffer. SWIM doesn't know of anything that gets rid of these and those are the main reason she continues to use.
Still, SWIM is presuming SWIY is completely clean from Tramadol use now? Hats off to you lorzapmail, that must've taken some willpower, esp. from the levels SWIY was taking.

[lorzapmail]

Originally Posted by beena

lorzapmail: do you mind me asking how long SWIY was taking tramadol for? SWIM has been using for over two years now continously (never at the levels you mentioned mind you: the most SWIM was taking was 400mgs a day, and now that's down to 100mgs a day, but it is continous use). The withdrawals SWIM would get now if she tried to stop would be far worse than say, even six months ago ... it begins with brain zaps which are associated with comming off SSRI drugs and then sleep paralysis happens at night (which scares the shit out of SWIM), then headaches followed by flu-like symptoms and lethargy and depression. SWIM has had the runs too, but stomach cramps, thankfully, weren't a problem.
SWIM gathers your remedy would take care of the stomach problems and perhaps help with the flu-like symptoms but what SWIM's main concern is, is the brain zaps and sleep paralysis that she would suffer. SWIM doesn't know of anything that gets rid of these and those are the main reason she continues to use.
Still, SWIM is presuming SWIY is completely clean from Tramadol use now? Hats off to you lorzapmail, that must've taken some willpower, esp. from the levels SWIY was taking.

...

Sorry for delay in writing.At one time swim took 1000mg of tramdol. Swim usually took 400 mg a day, I did the taper down system in about 3 weeks I feel your pain Am am sorry you had tjis happen to you. You will get through this! I took those nasty pil for 18 months. Again sorry for the "brain zaps" and hope someone will help you with that. I would be concerened about seizures

[ellis]

Hi
ive been on tramadol for 5 months post op. I didnt know about addictive properties or antidepressant effect, until i tried to stop them four weeks ago then my gosh did i know.i was on 5-600mg per day for 4 months.I have reduced it and am now on 50mg (25mg b.d.)to be honest i didnt notice bad side effects until id got to 200mg per day.then its taken me 3 weeks to reduce further. my s.e. seem to be milder than most ive read.i have shakes, no concentration,memory rubbish,hot and cold flushes.hands always icy.and this week i dont sleep well. sounds bad but am still managing to work, drive and look after 3 kids.
you asked for what could help with depression.I think whats helping me is the power of food. Ive been following a diet which increases seratonin levels, balances sugar levels for years when i tried prozac and had a bad reaction.The book my mam found is called POTATOES NOT PROZAC.iT IS ALL ABOUT A HEALTHY DIET.it was successful for alcoholics.I think using food to increase your seratonin levels may help you.im very strict on this food plan at the moment,like any healthy diet i do give in to temptation.it is a balanced everyday diet,ie protein with every meal,9a fistful), only carbohydrates at night,(increases overnight seratonin),knowing which fruit and veg is best for you and taking vit b ,zinc and vit c. worth a read to anyone with 'depression' or addicted to alcohol, drugs.it certainly seems to be making my symptoms milder.