Drug info - Krypton product turns out to be addictive opioid: O-Desmethyltramadol NOT kratom

[stan7k]

swim came across a pack of Krypton; it claims to contain kratom extracts. Has anyone seen this or tried it out? The pack contains only 3 grams and
it's difficult to estimate how strong it is.

[Armaghetto]

..... Back then SWIM didn't know that it contained tramadol metabolite ..

EDITED

[Leonore]

The thing named Krypton actually contains Tramadol and coffein, but not Kratom alkaloids. Information came from a reliable source stating EMCDDA as original source.


Take care,

Leonore

[Synchronium]

Please post any evidence of that whatsoever.

[Leonore]

I was wrong, there was O-desmethyltramadol ! , not Tramadol, in a Krypton extract bought, and analised in Germany, so it's even possible, that Krypton sold in other countries might be a real extract.

I've read it on a hungarian forum, posted by an expert from my country, I can't find any evidence proving it, but as soon as I can, I, or others will post it. Just thought to warn swiy.

Take care,
Leonore

Leonore added 8 Minutes and 39 Seconds later...

Its better to say, that a test made in Germany doesnt say anything sure about the ingredients in Krypton sold in another part of the world. There might be some other chemical in them.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Thanks for this potentially worrying info
	Good discovery!
	Interesting discovery.

[Alfa]

translated from an Hungarian forum:
July2nd 2009

A few days from the EMCDDA EWS (early-warning) News: "Germany Krypton" kratom extract "a bioactive metabolite of the analgesic tramadol, O-desmethyltramadol is identified. Psychoactive ingredient is caffeine found in the "Plant mixture". The (fake) herbal drug effect should not be attributed to kratom alkaloids but to the two synthetic additives. "

Can someone find the original EWS report / analysis?

Translated from a Vienna drug information and prevention institute:

Synthetic opioid discovered in Smoking mixture

The smoking mixture sold as "Krypton" contains, according to the manufacturer's specifications kratom leaves and extracts. The effect is described as stimulating and relaxing .

The Institute for Forensic Medicine in FreiBurg, Germany, has now analyzed the product. Besides caffeine, the synthetic opioid O-Desmethyltramadol is identified. This is a breakdown product of tramadol, an opioid painkiller which is prescribed with moderate to severe pain. After the consumption of O-Desmethyltramadol it turns into tramadol in the liver and because of this it is much more potent than tramadol itself

Like with "Spice" this is once again shows consumers need to be careful with products that are presented as smoking mixtures, since no assumption can be made that the ingredients listed on the product actually contained correspond. In this case, moreover, we are not dealing with synthetic cannabinoids, like with Spice but with a synthetic opioid. Due to the high potency of O-Desmethyltramadol there is an increased risk of overdose and, subsequently, respiratory paralysis. Based upon the high risk in regard to the addictive potential of opioids, we strongly recommend against the consumption of this 'herbal blend'.

The institute for forensic medicine in Freiburg, is the same institute that cracked the Spice secret.

I can not find the original study. Please see if you can find it.

[Alfa]

Some additional information about the reliability of this source of this information. ChEck iT! is an Austrian drug prevention and drug analysis project, with ties to the EMCDDA (European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction). It is one of the few drug analysis projects in the EU. I know this is a second hand statement, because Check iT is stating that the university of Freiburg has found O-Desmethyltramadol in Krypton. But both check It and the university of Freiburg are reliable sources. Meanwhile I have checked the validity of this claim and have gotten informal/ unofficial confirmation that there is indeed O-Desmethyltramadol in Krypton.

Originally Posted by Alfa

translated from an Hungarian forum:
July2nd 2009

Can someone find the original EWS report / analysis?

Translated from a Vienna drug information and prevention institute:

The institute for forensic medicine in Freiburg, is the same institute that cracked the Spice secret.

I can not find the original study. Please see if you can find it.

[One Eyed]

Originally Posted by IonicDaze

honestly we should just let this thread die IMO. not the kind of attention kratom needs to be attracting.

[n/ QUOTE=IonicDaze;628443]honestly we should just let this thread die IMO. not the kind of attention kratom needs to be attracting.[/QUOTE]

I don't really agree, the only time SWIM tried "Kratom" was when he got Krypton. The first effects were a little euphoric but dominated by cold sweats, really REALLY itchy skin and several instances of vomiting. Ended up having to lie down and keep really still, felt like a bad hangover and just wanted to sleep. SWIM put this down to first time, new experience.

The second and third time wasn't so bad, still itchy but no vomiting but then SWIM ran out of the stuff and didn't bother to get any more. SWIM was recently thinking of getting some more but may skip it after this info as SWIM thought he was consuming a herbal blend of Kratom leaves/extract.

PS the dose on each of the three occasions was 1g which now seems as though its quite a strong dose and SWIM was drinking it with tea or coffee - can't imagine the extra caffeine being a positive influence either.

One of the big arguments against legal highs is that the user is no wiser about what they're taking than they would be when buying from an illegal dealer... this Kratom incident just supports that. It was around about July when SWIM bought the Kratom and if he'd read this post then he certainly would have steered clear of the Krypton brand.

Originally Posted by Valseedian

and in the end those little pixelesque letters 'not for human consumption' free them from all liability...

swim says buy pure.

Originally Posted by Valseedian

plausible deniability

what is it marketed as? it doesn't have to be EFFECTIVE at what it's advertised as doing..

in the end, "not for human consumption" puts the decision to consume it into the hands of the adult who bought it... I'll say it the same way I do on every other thread:
you don't drink 1/2 a gallon of bleach, and then sue the clorox company... regardless of the ingredients... replace the units, substance and company with whatever you please..

Both the above quotes are correct. However, again they are sold in head shops/online where you buy legal highs. Common sense applies that it WILL be consumed, everybody knows it. Whilst the legal responsibility is taken away from the vendor because of the "not for human consumption" text, the propaganda the media uses will still argue that they're selling dangerous products under various guises (i.e. incense, pot pourri etc.) which end users will then consume. One could counteract that argument with the fact that aerosols, cream chargers (mmm) etc. are sold in normal shops and could be abused by people but usually such shops will sell a variety of products and not focus on one or two set areas like head shops do.

Consider this:
SWIM bought some Peruvian Torch which had been dried and then sold as pot pourri. Supposing SWIM was daft and thought that it was pot pourri (sickly smell aside) and put 40g in a big bowl in the middle of his coffee table. Then SWIM has company round who bring their children. Child scopes pot purri on table and decides to chew it without being spotted.

Ok so he'd need to eat a lot to have any negative/positive effects and the taste would most likely repel him but I'm fairly sure that hallucinogenic pot pourri should have a somewhat more descriptive label on it other than "not for human consumption."
At least with bleach and other toxic products you get an indication of their effects and what to do if you get it in your eyes or ingest it, including advice to immediately contact your doctor and show them the bottle.

[Synchronium]

Is that report likely to be something that needs to be leaked first, or will it be publicly available eventually?

[Alfa]

Drugs-Forum has already approached the researchers and requested information.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Your dedication to this community is outstanding

[Alfa]

Thread moved to Research Chemicals, to increase visibility.

[polidelaiko]

Too bad these chemicals always appear in the wrog way, like the JWH cannabinoids.
SWIM wanted to try O-Desmethyltramadol since he read of it, as he doesn't like the initial effects of tramadol... but he wants to try it as a pure chemical and a known dose, not as a fake herbal kratom....

[IonicDaze]

honestly we should just let this thread die IMO. not the kind of attention kratom needs to be attracting.

[Alfa]

People need to be aware that this Krypton kratom product is not kratom but an addictive opioid. The European Union is already aware of this and will likely send out an alert to all countries, so the attention already is there.

[0utrider]

just to mention it: kratom can be addictive as well, and should not be underestimated either.

SWIM wonders about the complication this "tramadol" could cause in people taking high dose SSRIs and thinking its safe and being surprised by severe dangers this mixed potentially causes

[IonicDaze]

Originally Posted by 0utrider

SWIM wonders about the complication this "tramadol" could cause in people taking high dose SSRIs and thinking its safe and being surprised by severe dangers this mixed potentially causes

the claim is that the product contains O-Desmethyltramadol which is inactive as a serotonin reuptake inhibitor

Reputation Comments on this post:

Useful clarification

[nibble]

Originally Posted by IonicDaze

the claim is that the product contains O-Desmethyltramadol which is inactive as a serotonin reuptake inhibitor

(-)-O-desmethyltramadol is however active as a noradrenaline reuptake inhibtor. The (+)-O-desmethyltramadol enantiomer is completely inactive as a monoamine reuptake inhibitor though, perhaps they have resolved it.

Reputation Comments on this post:

nice piece of info, but please give references when you can

[IonicDaze]

Originally Posted by nibble

(-)-O-desmethyltramadol is however active as a noradrenaline reuptake inhibtor. The (+)-O-desmethyltramadol enantiomer is completely inactive as a monoamine reuptake inhibitor though, perhaps they have resolved it.

my point was simply that O-desmethyltramadol doesn't share tramadol's high risk of serotonin sydrome when combined with SSRIs.

the combination of SSRIs and NRIs is harmless, there is even a class of drug the combines the two (Serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors)

[Alfa]

The high risk of O-desmethyltramadol is not in toxicity, but like most opioids; in addiction.

[Synchronium]

Has there been any more developments/evidence since this revelation?

[Thirdedge]

F#@ks sake. This news has swim wondering about some of the other so-called Kratom extract capsules on the market. This product looks like its made by the smoking blend manufacturers, is it a German product?

[honourableone]

Originally Posted by Thirdedge

F#@ks sake. This news has swim wondering about some of the other so-called Kratom extract capsules on the market.

I would expect that most of those are genuine, as very few seem to be of a quality worth bothering with (as with most kratom products on the mainstream market), and just seem to be crude rudimentary attempts at extraction.

The smoking blends started off in a similar way, a market of useless cannabis alternatives untill Spice showed up. In both cases the market could have produced better products originally without resorting to RC use. However in this case, I would say use of a powerful opioid has much greater potential for problems and negative attention being bought to legal drugs than even the smoking blends did.

[Thirdedge]

^ I agree. With the smoking blends there was a genuine need for a legal Cannabis alternative that worked. These blends have benefited many people who for whatever reason could not risk illegal Cannabis. But surely Kratom is good enough on its own? I can not see any logical excuse for selling an RC as Kratom, other than straight out greed. I would suggest a boycott of this manufacturers entire product range.

[Alfa]

Its a Polish product, but it is on the German market. AFAIK it does not come from smoke blend manufacturers.

[Alfa]

I think the manufacturer only has one product. It would only be worthwhile to boycott vendors that sell Krypton. But I expect that not all of them are aware that they are selling an opioid.