Has swim fucked up?

[ItalionStalion]

Swim has been snorting H every night for 4 nights in a row now, only about half a bag a night. Prior to this swim was a part time opiate user (few months), but before this 4 night binge on H swim did a 6 day binge on dehydracodeine (250mg) , codeine (400mg) & methedome (30mg) all on individual nights.

Obviously i need to take a good break, is swim to expect any wd and if so how bad? Swim has a very very addictive personality but luckily a strong personality and willpower, it's not swims intention to be hooked on H but i do want to use recreationaly (1-2 times a week) and avoid raising tollerence.

But alas swim is worried he has fucked up and without realising gone to long without a break.

[sarbanes]

>>Its not the physical dependence that you have to be worried about with opioids (yet that is there as well, but usually manageable, especially in a an otherwise moderate case such as yours). Its the psychological addiction which will really be the test of your wills. As the psychological component is almost equal to the inverse of the pleasure you gained from the opioids (hence, there's no free ride, you got ta pay the piper), etc, yada yada. That's why for someone like yourself, even if you have a strong will (like you say), it may not be enough. Strong will is not to be confused (or substituted) with bravery or big ego. Those won't help you quit. But discipline (the ability to work out on command, and jog for an hour). The ability not to buy something you really really want, in order to save your money long term. The ability to willingly steel your body by jumping into an ice cold river 7AM Saturday morning, instead of having wake up sex with your hot GF. THESE are the sorts of things which will determine your real will power here, and therefore, your success. If you are just a tough guy with a big ego, you may *think* you'll be fine, only to find this vague fear cross you, and the feeling that "something is not quite right", type of feeling haunt you, while the comfortable familiarity of the opioid offering itself will make all better and normal and chipper. Using will be the natural, "right" thing to do. Not using will be out of the question – especially when you can use just one more time, and THEN give up. That never happens though, it just keeps repeating.<<

Reputation Comments on this post:

Enjoyed your distinction between willpower, bravery and tough guy ego. Great insight into addiction dynamic. Thanks!

[purplehaze]

If you do have withdrawls DXM is said to reverse withdrawl to opium. I how ever am not that knowledeable with withdrawl treatment to opiates so maybe someone else could clarify that for me.

My advice is never take another opiate in your life inless you absolutely have to. I'm not in a mood to write out a big why. Inless you want to go spiraling down and become addicted and fight a very hard depency and addiction it's advised to never look back.

The depression is said to be the worst depression in the world, read into the addiction and treatment forums. I'm sure there are users there that could give you a big why.

[Panthers007]

Simply put: Once addicted you need to take it all the time just to feel normal. Which is where you started from. No more getting high - just keep taking it to not feel sick. Does that sound like fun?

[ItalionStalion]

Originally Posted by Panthers007

Simply put: Once addicted you need to take it all the time just to feel normal. Which is where you started from. No more getting high - just keep taking it to not feel sick. Does that sound like fun?

Not for swim chap, swim knows he's not hooked yet, no where near but swim was just wondering how bad the wd would be from the 10 day bing he's been on, probberly fuck all tbh. Should ride it out fine with a few benzos and what not.

Just hope swim can lay of the H for a coupla days, sooooooooooo very very morish it's rather scarey!!

Some how it tricked swim into thinking 5 days were only 3

[sarbanes]

Originally Posted by ItalionStalion

Not for swim chap, swim knows he's not hooked yet, no where near but swim was just wondering how bad the wd would be from the 10 day bing he's been on, probberly fuck all tbh. Should ride it out fine with a few benzos and what not.

Just hope swim can lay of the H for a coupla days, sooooooooooo very very morish it's rather scarey!!

Some how it tricked swim into thinking 5 days were only 3

Stallone,

Don't listen to the deliberate, anti-social negativity. Some people are just miserable, so the only way they know to engage is to try to bring others down. Typical mid-western US mentality. Now, onto the topic of importance. Although it is true (my philosophy regarding psychological addiction), there are a number of drugs which, when added to your arsenal, can make withdrawal almost painless, these do more for the physical symptoms, and less for the mental (craving). But there are excellent exceptions. I have heard DXM helps (ref above), and that its mechanism (NMDA antagonism) is similar to why some drugs (racemic methadone type) don't always build the biggest tolerance (one of the enantiomers is NMDA antagonist). I think there is some truth here, but its only part of the picture. Baclofen is easily available, and is like clonidine (in gross physical remidiative effect), except instead of just treating your physical symptoms, it will curb your cravings as well. Combined with very low dose naltrexone (to help reverse your tolerance via receptor/g-protein decoupling), and an anti-convulsant (BE CAREFUL!, oxycarbamazepine and phenytoin recommended), and combining those three with some SSRI and low dose benzo type (or even some of the Z drugs instead), one can turn even the worst WD into something not so bad. Also, having some codeine (~30mg oral, typical adult male), can have immense craving controlling effects (molecule somehow tricks your body). The synergism between all these modern, state of art drugs for treating both WD, and especially, the stormy period post WD, is wonderful. Personally, we don't look at it as something to be cured, but rather managed. This is because we want to use, we don't want to not use. But you need to somewhat "not use" if you want to enjoy using, regardless of how much drug you have. Even those who manage to obtain 120 OC 80's/month from their physician, won't be happy long term using. You need to use in moderation, and you need to force yourself to not use some times. SWIY could never simply not use, because SWIY doesn't want to not use. If SWIY wanted to not use, then SWIY would not use. Honestly, its what you want to do within your means, that's all.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Borderline flaming and a bullying attitude won't win many converts.

[Juko]

SWIY is not going to wd. SWIY is going to crave it and might be a little more sensitive than normal for a day or two. but what shocks me is you said, " but i do want to use recreationaly (1-2 times a week)," and admitted to having an addictive personality. Having an addictive personality too, there is no such thing as once or twice a week. After a week or so of doing that SWIY'll be depressed the other 5 or 6 days, and then before you know it its 2-3 times a week using, then 3-4 days and then SWIY'll find the other three days unbearable (craving, depression, irratabilty. Then swiy will look back and be like shit.. its been 9 days straight.. Believe me, it f^&*s with your head more than your body. You sound like you don't know what the consequences are, smoke pot kid.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good to let people know.

[ItalionStalion]

Originally Posted by Juko

SWIY is not going to wd. SWIY is going to crave it and might be a little more sensitive than normal for a day or two. but what shocks me is you said, " but i do want to use recreationaly (1-2 times a week)," and admitted to having an addictive personality. Having an addictive personality too, there is no such thing as once or twice a week. After a week or so of doing that SWIY'll be depressed the other 5 or 6 days, and then before you know it its 2-3 times a week using, then 3-4 days and then SWIY'll find the other three days unbearable (craving, depression, irratabilty. Then swiy will look back and be like shit.. its been 9 days straight.. Believe me, it f^&*s with your head more than your body. You sound like you don't know what the consequences are, smoke pot kid.

Swiy is right of course, swim is gonna have to just suffer the consequences when he uses! Swim has given H a break now after 6 nights of using back2back, he's feeling fine apart from being abit depressed and booooored as fuck, a few temazzies and a JD&coke helps a little though.

Swim smoked pot since he was 14, heavely from 18 an gave up a few months ago due to severe anxiety and deepresion, swim suffers from ADHD/OCD amoung other things and ganja didn't really help with that, swi
m finds the buzz from it shit now anyway!

[Juko]

yeah, heroin high is 78858787 times better. also heroin's chance of ruining your life is 45648945 greater. swim just got out of rehab and has been dope free for 12 days now. swim's never craved something that has brought this much trouble to his life. even though is messed so much shit up, swim dreams about it and thinks about it constantly and finds himself thinking about using again. swim's depressed, when he know's hes done the right thing. swim's life will never be the same after opiate addiction. pot is safe.

Reputation Comments on this post:

I like people who care about others. Thanks

[chillinwill]

Originally Posted by Juko

yeah, heroin high is 78858787 times better. also heroin's chance of ruining your life is 45648945 greater. swim just got out of rehab and has been dope free for 12 days now. swim's never craved something that has brought this much trouble to his life. even though is messed so much shit up, swim dreams about it and thinks about it constantly and finds himself thinking about using again. swim's depressed, when he know's hes done the right thing. swim's life will never be the same after opiate addiction. pot is safe.

keep it up man....SWIM believes getting off opiates and staying off them is one of the hardest things that someone can do...what SWIY just described is exactly how SWIM feels....SWIM has been clean almost 4 months now but he still thinks about and wishes he could causally use but knows that he can't....its crazy how one little thing in someone's life can wreck the rest of their lives

[newgrower]

Wow - those anti-marijuana commercials really have worked. Even the junkies buy into that bullshit.

Totally smoke pot instead. Swims been smoking for 20+ years and off heroin for 10+ years (used only about 4 years). Another option is poppy tea if you really need the opiate feeling but isn't the best opinion as it is addictive and does cause withdrawal. Swim does find he's able to maintain using tea occasionally unlike heroin which ran his life but does consider himself stronger willed than most. Of course the reason tea isn't as psychologically addictive is that it isn't as good of a high.

[cnsns2ccl2]

SWIM hasn't been following panthers posts ovetime but swim thinks he/she made a valid point with this one. The advice seemed to be that if one isn't too deep into heroin to stop now and stick to smoking pot or start smoking pot instead if one feels the need to do drugs. Swim thinks pot is psychologically addictive but probably not as fierce as an opiate addiction swim is guessing. For one thing, the drug is much more affordable. When potheads can't get weed, USUALLY they don't fiend for it so bad that they resort to lowering their morals (like stealing from people to get money, lying, etc) to the point where one addicted to opiates or stimulants may. That's how swim interpreted Panter's post and it made sense to swim.

[Panthers007]

The worst effects SWIM would have if he quit right now would be like a mild case of the flu. Couple days under the weather and maybe bed rest.

Or SWIM could fuck up his life for years to come.

Let's see...the flu? Or life screwed? Decisions, decisions...

[newgrower]

Addiction to heroin happens faster than usually expected - it just has a way a sneaking up on one.

Swim doubts he would have listened when he was in the same situation. But swiy still has a chance to stop heroin before it's too late. Please do - swim thinks there's lots of people who just want to say stop it kid, you're heading into a whole bunch of trouble. There's lots of drugs that swim likes and can handle but just haven't met many that can handle this stuff (doesn't mean there aren't any - just none swim ever met). Lots of luck to swiy - its a difficult situation but not unmanageable at this point.

[sarbanes]

Originally Posted by newgrower

Addiction to heroin happens faster than usually expected - it just has a way a sneaking up on one.

Swim doubts he would have listened when he was in the same situation. But swiy still has a chance to stop heroin before it's too late. Please do - swim thinks there's lots of people who just want to say stop it kid, you're heading into a whole bunch of trouble. There's lots of drugs that swim likes and can handle but just haven't met many that can handle this stuff (doesn't mean there aren't any - just none swim ever met). Lots of luck to swiy - its a difficult situation but not unmanageable at this point.

Totally hear what your saying. Its just that, the only people who have any business being addicted, are those with ready/easy/cheep access. Drugs are SO not worth spending any real money on. And consuming street drugs is analogous to sleeping with a prostitute (for sex)...ie, even less value. Once you've gotten to the place where you need them to feel normal, I totally agree with what panthers said. It ain't worth it. But its not all or nothing, and its not black and white only. Even some one who has become addicted can stop using again. The sweet spot surely is Weekend Warrior, as its the only way to both use (on a somewhat regular basis), and also enjoy a real opioid high. I know one person who constantly goes through WD, and loves that "relief shot" when it comes. What a looser way of living. Only loosers spend real money on drugs. Drugs can be nice, but they just aren't worth lots of money, really.

[UNIBLACK810]

SWIM wil give SWIY some good advice on the H thing. First off SWIM doughts seriously if SWIY has developed much of a physical addiction with just 3 or 4 days of half bag useage. Although everyone has a unique system i really dought SWIY does. What will be the problem is the psycological will play tricks on the physical making you think that SWIY is experiencing H withdrawl giving SWIY an excuse to go cop a bag. Every little pain your cat feels or every time your cats eyes tear up or every chill or hot flash SWIY will chalk up to a withdrawl sympton. What one has to realize is that our eyes teared and our noses ran and we got chills and hotflashes way before SWIY or me ever knew H. But your brain will tell you diffrent. If SWIY does feel anything it wil be very minor like a minor cold or so. Just be glad SWIY isnt kicking a monster. Imagine not sleeping for months and sweating uncontrolaby and shitting and vomiting @ the same time for hours on end!!! Now thats a withdrawl. SWIM has been thru it a number of times. Than on top of all that SWIY will be more depressed than SWIY has ever been and probably ever will be in your entire life. If SWIY doesnt ever wanna experience that shit! Than by all means please please I beg you stop while SWIY is ahead. If SWIY doesnt SWIM promises you will...........And @ that point, when its too late SWIY will wish they had!!!!! I promise.

[ItalionStalion]

Swims cats still using everyday, using a bag or more aday now. Swim needs to sort this cat out.

[y0ssarianlives]

Hey man. SWIM ended up addicted to opiates the EXACT same way SWIY are heading; using for a few days in a row then taking breaks. But... SWIM started to feel like shit (depressed, irritable, paranoid) ect after some of the longer binges, and eventually after binging for 5 days on some fent he came down with flu like symptoms and was in a horrible emotional state that at first he did NOT associate with physical dependence, but once SWIM used some oxycodone about three days in and felt perfect, SWIM realized what it was.

SWIM was not going through full fledged withdrawals; but SWIM could not sleep, was incredibly lethargic and couldn't focus on anything, felt incredibly cold and was shivering even in the relatively warm weather and was wearing a big jacket and had a space heater right next to him and still was freezing, SWIM was anxious, miserable, had no appetite, sense of smell was altered, ect

But it wasn't full on withdrawals at this point, and SWIM had a choice to make. Stick through the week or so of the worst symptoms and stay clear from opioids after having learned the lesson; or go all out and seek short term relief from (in retrospect, MILD withdrawals) by acquiring a steady supply of opioids.

Guess which one SWIM took... SWIM is now stuck in the state's system of freaking mental health and addiction workers, completely dependent on methadone, and has through his opioid addiction fucked himself over in many ways and does not want to see someone else go through this when SWIY is still in the very early phase of dependence and faces a battle that can be won with far less discomfort than later down the road.

SWIM urges you to stick it out, please man, do not send SWIYself down a path that will exponentially worsen to unimaginable miserable depths when you are NOT too far gone yet.

The symptoms SWIY will face at this point are not going to be fun, but will be far more tolerable than a month from now.

Please, SWIM really wants you to listen to the others in your thread as well as SWIMS own experience and make a choice that will save SWIY a world of trouble.

Kick it now, while you still can get off relatively easy with the WDs.

[Juko]

Man, no offense to this thread, but SWIM has been there and far past it. We all had the same advice for you. Stop now!.. or post in the heroin forum. "You can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink." I am sure every addict could start a thread and talk about how he/she needs advice on quitting. SWIM doesn't understand, nip it in the bud like everyone advised, or don't complain. Don't be offended but I've been following this thread for a while and you still didn't do anything. Sorry if you offended.

Peace out. Be safe.
Juko

Juko added 3 Minutes and 31 Seconds later...

Its only been a week, SWIM's kicked dope after week, and only felt mildly depressed and a little sore for about a day. Exercise or something man, I hate to witness someone documenting the start of a heroin addiction.

Juko added 2 Minutes and 7 Seconds later...

SWIM was lucky and used for only 10 months. And that sucked big time getting off. Save yourself man. Ok, I am done posting for real.

Peace

[Focus]

I tend to follow my cat's advice on this one.

He wouldn't know whether the withdrawal would be bad, but he strongly thinks that, if SWIY believes himself to have an addictive personality, he is likely to be deluded about his ability to control this.

This self-delusion is a common theme in other addictions, such as gambling. Felix knows very little about opiates, but rather more about that topic.

Tell SWIY from me to take care of himself.

[moda00]

Let's please keep this thread on topic and free of flaming. The topic is that a member is concerned about his/her heroin use and wants to discuss ways to prevent problems with addiction. Thanks!!

[ItalionStalion]

As i said before swim was a huge lover of ganja, used to love it and smoke it every day, swim still has a smoke now and then but doesn't really get much from it now, it just aggravates anxiety in swim. Perhaps swim will be able to smoke again when he is older, swim has very fond memories of mary j and she will always be his first love, they are just taking a break from each other.

Back on topic, swim managed a day without opiates but has been using everyday again since, mostly snorting H and ocasionaly smoking, also taking methedone, swim noticed restlessness and mild sickness when going without. swim's not even sure how long he's been on it, this has all happened very fast, he was only intending to use beriefly and very ocasionally there after!

Swim will have to get a handle on it and cut down very soon.