Experiences - 2 Tabs and No Visuals (Tolerance)

[Recamier]

Ok swim bought these two "Jerry Garcia tabs" for $XXX. swim has tripped off this dudes supply ONCE before, 5 days ago. and now that he took two hits instead of one... all he feels is mega anxious, craving marijuana [i recently quit], swims jaw is tickling swim and its annoying, dark ass thoughts, just constant negative thoughts slamming into swims brain.

Swim does not feel happy at all.

swim took the two tabs very happy mood and ready to have fun.

swim prepared some songs to trip too

swim has just been in a horrible body trip for the past 3 hours, shittty shitty

Recamier added 1 Minutes and 56 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by Recamier

Ok swim bought these two "Jerry Garcia tabs" for $XXX. swim has tripped off this dudes supply ONCE before, 5 days ago. and now that he took two hits instead of one... all he feels is mega anxious, craving marijuana [i recently quit], swims jaw is tickling swim and its annoying, dark ass thoughts, just constant negative thoughts slamming into swims brain.

Swim does not feel happy at all.

swim took the two tabs very happy mood and ready to have fun.

swim prepared some songs to trip too

swim has just been in a horrible body trip for the past 3 hours, shittty shitty

Swim feels discomforted he wishes to never experience any of this again... swim does now know why his first trip was amazing and this one has just been a NON VISUAL NIGHTMARE.

[Lobsang]

all he feels is mega anxious, craving marijuana [i recently quit],

Well SWIy cannot expect all trips to always be fun. Perhaps SWIy is dealing with the unresolved feelings of not having pot to smoke. SWIy should try and do something different. Change the setting. Just say to SWIy's self. "This trip will change" and wait for and expect the change. Maybe take a shower or have sex to change the level. Like that maybe.

[ljfe]

SWIM heard of those recently. Hasn't heard anything about the effects, but the people with them are sketchys who sold him bad research blotter a while ago. Is there jaw tension? Could be a DOx.

[Recamier]

Originally Posted by ljfe

SWIM heard of those recently. Hasn't heard anything about the effects, but the people with them are sketchys who sold him bad research blotter a while ago. Is there jaw tension? Could be a DOx.

jaw tension

Recamier added 1 Minutes and 5 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by Recamier

jaw tension

Cracked out.

[Panthers007]

5 days ago? One word: Tolerance. Look it up (UTFSE).

[sknkv2]

SWIY needs to read the rules:http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/misc.php?do=cfrules

Price discussion is not allowed.

Anyway, SWIM knows what happened. Recently SWIM was in the same position. He tripped on acid, had a great trip and all, three days later he tried again, took the same amount (from the same batch) and all he experienced was some mild closed eyed visuals, that he was thinking slightly different and everything was just kind of hazy. Tolerance is most likely the culprit here as it was in SWIM's case, although DOx compound could be a possibility too.

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks for looking out for the forum

[Panthers007]

DOx molecules also work on serotonin - as the molecules of these mimic indole. Indole being the base of psychedelics such as LSD25 and psilocybin. So a tolerance develops with all of these. Cross-tolerance between psilocybin, mescaline, and LSD25 has long been established.

[ljfe]

5 day gap, doubled the dose. I don't see a problem. SWIM loves tripping on L few days.
I suspect DOx, I doubt LSD would give an amped nightmare. Lucy is usually a positive experience.

[Songcycle67]

LSD tends to illicit a more "speedy" or "manic" reaction at low doses as one experiences the "one foot in, one foot out" consciousness that tends to manifest on such doses. If swiy can verify that the first dose had the proper indications of LSD (assuming he is fairly experienced with known LSD) that is: come-up of an hour or less, duration of 12 hours or less, and visual/bodily activity indicative of LSD then the wizard would say that tolerance is a fairly good possibility. usually after waiting only a week the wizard, even at a fairly large dose, can never acheive full blown psychedelia and the experience seems quite strange. It's as if the mind blocks out a lot of the experience as being "uninteresting" as in normal consciousness.

But even then there is research available indicating that even experienced users of pharmaceutical LSD could not distinguish between it and other similar compounds in a clinical setting.

There are just way too many factors present here that could mutate a proper experience.

Reputation Comments on this post:

You have demonstrated quite a grasp of the subject matter. Excellent!

[Recamier]

I don't udnerstand why it was such a mental trip.. all I wanted to do was trip out to some TOOL music, and then I just get a really shitty body/mental trip, It made me feel worthless, not at one point did I enjoy it. all I was thinking was "I can't wait to be sober again so I can just think straight. The first time i did L i was on a few brownies... my supply told me that I just had a bad trip because i wasnt relaxed and that L by itself is too edgy.... TOO EDGY? I took TWO tabs that were supposed to be GOOD, I really think I was given DOx

Why? I have done mushrooms before and bad tripped but it was easy to enjoy myself. On this paper it was really hard, I really hope nobody else gets bad paper, Honestly, It's worse to get bad paper than fake.

Recamier added 5 Minutes and 36 Seconds later...

Swim is going to wait two weeks, maybe it was just tolerance and swim got stuck in a bad trip, oh well

In two weeks swim will know if it's Dox

thank you all for the input

Recamier added 0 Minutes and 33 Seconds later...

Swim is going to wait two weeks, maybe it was just tolerance and swim got stuck in a bad trip, oh well

In two weeks swim will know if it's Dox

thank you all for the input[/quote]

[Samadhi]

Originally Posted by Recamier

I don't udnerstand why it was such a mental trip.. all I wanted to do was trip out to some TOOL music, and then I just get a really shitty body/mental trip, It made me feel worthless, not at one point did I enjoy it. all I was thinking was "I can't wait to be sober again so I can just think straight. The first time i did L i was on a few brownies... my supply told me that I just had a bad trip because i wasnt relaxed and that L by itself is too edgy.... TOO EDGY? I took TWO tabs that were supposed to be GOOD, I really think I was given DOx

Why? I have done mushrooms before and bad tripped but it was easy to enjoy myself. On this paper it was really hard, I really hope nobody else gets bad paper, Honestly, It's worse to get bad paper than fake.

Recamier added 5 Minutes and 36 Seconds later...

Swim is going to wait two weeks, maybe it was just tolerance and swim got stuck in a bad trip, oh well

In two weeks swim will know if it's Dox

thank you all for the input

Recamier added 0 Minutes and 33 Seconds later...

Swim is going to wait two weeks, maybe it was just tolerance and swim got stuck in a bad trip, oh well

In two weeks swim will know if it's Dox

thank you all for the input

[/quote]

Considering how expensive those tabs were (price discussion ) swim will assume that a proper test will not be conducted before ingesting again, swim will lay down some really basic ground questions to help determine a shot-in-the-dark speculation as to what was on the tabs...

1) did the blotter have a very harsh metallic or reactive taste to it?

2) How long was the come-up of the chemical, DOx show signs within 30 minutes but don't really start rollin till 2+hrs.

3) How long was the duration of the trip?

Answering these three questions can help a little, a test kit would be nice because of it's ability to identify amphetamines in a tablet or blotter by way of color, but, most who don't have solid real LSD sources hardly ever think of testing these chemicals.

Swim would advise that if swiy is to take another tab sometime within the next few weeks that he start low and see if the trip is headed for an amped hell-land. If it is a DOx, maybe they aren't swiy's thing, if it really is LSD, maybe the set and setting were off, or maybe LSD is just not swiys substance per-say.

[Recamier]

Considering how expensive those tabs were (price discussion ) swim will assume that a proper test will not be conducted before ingesting again, swim will lay down some really basic ground questions to help determine a shot-in-the-dark speculation as to what was on the tabs...

1) did the blotter have a very harsh metallic or reactive taste to it?

2) How long was the come-up of the chemical, DOx show signs within 30 minutes but don't really start rollin till 2+hrs.

3) How long was the duration of the trip?

Answering these three questions can help a little, a test kit would be nice because of it's ability to identify amphetamines in a tablet or blotter by way of color, but, most who don't have solid real LSD sources hardly ever think of testing these chemicals.

Swim would advise that if swiy is to take another tab sometime within the next few weeks that he start low and see if the trip is headed for an amped hell-land. If it is a DOx, maybe they aren't swiy's thing, if it really is LSD, maybe the set and setting were off, or maybe LSD is just not swiys substance per-say.[/quote]

No weird taste, it started in about two hours yes, and trip lasted from like 8 at night until like 2 in the morning

[Songcycle67]

None of your answers would indicate any known RC's, Recamier. But the problem is that it doesn't fit with any chemical profiles of known and well-established psychedelics. LSD should illicit a response within an hour but the peak doesn't start til around the two-three hour mark. Is it possible that swiy is counting the "peak" as the proper onset? Generally speaking the onset of LSD normally manifests itself in the form of slight depersonalization, laughter, slight visual activity and a general sense of "altered reality."

With that said it's not out of the question that he took a chemical which does not exist in the literature. Many nations, China foremost, are exporting lots of clandestine indole-based compounds that have no research or literature or even name attatched to them. Many people sell these under the loose label "acid," as was the case with DOM (STP), because they are psychedelics and it is the most easily-profitable and recognized chemical psychedelic.

It does seem that all signs except the come-up and some subjective (unreliable) experience point to LSD.

[Panthers007]

SWIM should come to understand that psychedelics are serious business. Just wanting a nice, satori-type trip is not enough. Many factors are involved in what happens when one takes a psychedelic. The SWIM must take what comes with an open mind and acceptance. Or face the consequences of trying to resist the inevitable.

[Songcycle67]

Originally Posted by Panthers007

SWIM should come to understand that psychedelics are serious business. Just wanting a nice, satori-type trip is not enough. Many factors are involved in what happens when one takes a psychedelic. The SWIM must take what comes with an open mind and acceptance. Or face the consequences of trying to resist the inevitable.

Yes if we were to assume his answers to be correctly stated I would call this a case of someone expecting too much. Attaining psychedelics from street sources in itself carries a fair amount of risk and that risk can, even subconsciously or unconsciously, cause a rude disruption of the "expected" action of LSD. Even if we assume the subject is of medium tolerance, someone who is not at risk of psychosis and the setting was appropriate, set could definitely have done all that was needed to turn a perfectly good hit of LSD into a manic, dark, terror trip even in experienced users.

And therein lies the true problem with your subject, Recamier. He can test the blotter all he likes and the fact is that personal, subjective consciousness will never be a suitable facility for determining what is on a .25"x.25" square. Barring taste (which can also be subjective), there's really nothing anyone can prove or disprove through simple ingestion.

Hell, he could be the one guy in the world who metabolizes LSD into DOM or something. It's unlikely, but you see where I'm going with this.

[Recamier]

The best detail I can tell all of you is this. Imagine a bad acid trip, ok? Now there are no visuals what so ever, at MOST swim had fuzzy vission, but it was extremely minuscule.
Swim has been fighting Marijuana addiction and weight problems, Swim thinks that maybe all the stress from quitting marijuana and stressing food/exercise may have re-surfaced a dark trip.

Swim thinks there is a possibility that if he does not smoke marijuana he cannot visually trip Of LSD

Recamier added 1 Minutes and 34 Seconds later...

SWIM enjoyed the first trip, immensely. SWIM had bad thoughts but they were easy to conquer.

[Songcycle67]

But you see "bad acid trip" is a very broad idea consisting of extremely subjective factors.

The best that we can do is guess based on your pre-conceptions of things like "good acid trips" and "bad acid trips" as compared to our own pre-conceptions. Also if one thinks it's LSD, and can't test it otherwise outside the context of subjective internal reaction, it might as well be LSD. In other words, I'm sure there are many people in the world who think that their supply of DOB is real acid because that's all they've been exposed to and those without clinical exposure to LSD and other psychedelics can never know for sure what they're getting. Even then it's so subjective an experience, every single time, that even a good cross-section of experienced pharmaceutical LSD users probably aren't sure what they're getting when they get it from the street.

And as I said before, even things like duration and come-up time can be distorted by subjectivity.

The best one can hope for in the modern climate is that whatever it is that they take illicits a positive reaction, luckily there are only about 200 known psychedelics in the literature and only a small margin are known to be active on blotter. Even fewer, if any, of them could be deemed "unsafe" no matter how harsh the experience.

Reputation Comments on this post:

some insightful posting in LSD recently: Keep it up!

[ljfe]

Yeah, SWIMers have different opinions about what acid will do to you because there are some research chemicals out there. In my opinion, these symptoms don't sound like clean LSD, comparing it to what SWIM has experienced from many different batches of blotter. He enjoys good trips every few days.

[podge]

This bad experience is not down to simply "dodgey trips" , tolerance or "marijuana addiction" ?!.....Marijuana isnt physically addictive. Its down to preconceptions of what should and should not happen while tripping. Tripping is a term which covers a broad if not infinite array of different sensations and experiences.

Tolerance is probably why swiy didnt get visuals, but i dont understand why swiy is so surprised to feel such heavy psychological effects, it is LSD after all. Most people generally regard this aspect as far more important than any visual effects.

Taking psychedelics without leaving enough time to absorb or contemplate the experience can lead to more negative effects in future. Also "Tool" are a good psychedelic band but the music isnt exactly designed to be cheerful, its more geared towards intense tripping. Dont underestimate the power set and setting which includes music. A trip taking a nose dive for the worst because of inappropriate music for the mood is common.

I think swiy should make themselves well aware of these basics before messing with these chemicals again.

[ADVOR]

The more SWIY thinks about negativity while tripping, the more negative feelings SWIY will produce. If you focus on something else and try to avoid thinking negatively, you will feel fine. Most bad trips happen when SWIYs think that they're having a bad trip. Key word: THINK. So change your mindset. Say, "I'm going to have a good trip!" and you will.

[psyche]

I don't see the logic of LSD being any more benign-natured than other research chemicals. Fake blotters are no reason for bad trip unless there are terrible physical side-effects.

But even then there is research available indicating that even experienced users of pharmaceutical LSD could not distinguish between it and other similar compounds in a clinical setting.

It'd be interesting if you could provide a source for that research.

[Songcycle67]

Originally Posted by psyche

It'd be interesting if you could provide a source for that research.

Panthers007 has mentioned it in a few threads but I don't think he has an online source. I was really interested to read more also, but I think he is a reliable dude. Plus psychedelics work in such a way that pre-conceptions of what you're taking matter tremendously and can alter your perceptions completely. Still, I'd love to read that study in full.

[Jatelka]

Originally Posted by songcycle67

Panthers007 has mentioned it in a few threads but I don't think he has an online source. I was really interested to read more also, but I think he is a reliable dude. Plus psychedelics work in such a way that pre-conceptions of what you're taking matter tremendously and can alter your perceptions completely. Still, I'd love to read that study in full.

It's on erowid somewhere (Can't find it at present)

[Panthers007]

That goes back to the Menlo Park "white-room" experiments - early 1960's. By "sophisticated" I was quoting from the time. I personally don't buy it. I'm quite sure many people could figure the difference between a phenethylamine (mescaline), a tryptamine (psilocybin), and LSD25. Based on the physical sensations and nature of imagery alone. I know truly sophisticated folks who can differentiate, with ease, between molecules within a chemical class.

[Lobsang]

It's eazy peezy. They are distinctly different. They're different things all together. If one knows what to look for. I mean who could confuse mescaline with LSD? Or psilocybin with mescaline? At least that is SWIM's opinion. Now SWIM does noyt know about confusion with "research chemicals". But the three old standards he would not confuse.