Side effects - Are these side effects normal?

[Romie1985]

So the last few times SWIM took "pills", he has noticed some unpleasent side effects after use. These normally dont come till two days after the drugs have been taken.

What swim experiences after pill consumption
-voices in his head ( he will be at work and here friends call his name even though they arnt there, even today it sounded like it was raining for a hour and it was sunny with a blue sky outside) this happens 1-2 days after pills have been taken and lasts around 3-5 days
-heart doesnt seam to beat properly, gets bad while trying to sleep, will stop for afew seconds, restart, change speeds etc. This happens 2 sleeps after pills have been taken and lasts up to a week.
-alot of anxiety issues (from my understanding this is normal), happens 2 days after pills have been taken and lasts around 2-5 days
-depression (this is common), happens 2-3 days after pills have been taken, lasts up to a week

This has happened the last few times SWIM has taken pills. He doesnt have a bad comedown, doesnt get scattered, has a good afterglow for around 2 days then he will experience these side effects. Now SWIM realises the anxiety and depression is pretty common but is abit worried about his heart acting funny and the voices in his head.If this isnt normal what could be causing this?

Is it a bad idea for SWIM to go see his doctor to try get some downers to help knock him out if he has trouble sleeping? SWIM isnt comfortable seeing his doctor about this side effects as SWIM would rather try keep his drug use a secret.

[paperclipseller]

SWIM has never had voices in SWIM's head. The heart beat thing does happen to SWIM sometimes when SWIM has had a lot. anxiety and depression are common with pills; it's not called suicide tuesday for nothing.

SWIM does think that if SWIM is woriied about the health implications of what SWIM is doing a visit to the doctor is fine. He will not pass on this information to anyone he is ethically bound to keep it in confidence. SWIM doesn't think he will give SWIM stuff to make it easier to come down. If SWIM wants to source these yourself you can.

[anony]

Swim aint no scientist but this is my input.
Swim wouldn't worry about any of them issues. As long as they are temporary issues and not permanent. Everybody's brain works differently and swim thinks with MDMA swiy will find perhaps cause of the lack of seretone there is slight mix up with the brain chemisty which causes disorientation (hence halloucinations) so swiy is getting mixed signals (much like how LSD works), so swiy is actually hearing a memory, if that makes sense
I think there is much undiscovered science with MDMA, seretone and brain chemistry, hence why it affects people differently.

[Micklemouse]

Anony, with the greatest respect, there is much there to be concerned about. Any of those symptoms taken alone scream out "Stop taking Pills! MDMA is not for you!"

He does have a bad comedown, it is just a little more delayed than he expects, is rather more extended than anticipated, & could if left unattended or is regularly revisited lead to greater difficulties further down the road. Hearing voices & other aural hallucinations can be an interesting experience, but coupled with anxiety & depression can lead to paranoia, psychosis & some nasty medicines. The irregularly beating heart could be a symptom of anxiety, but is also something that many have noticed on the days after a good dose of MDMA & other stimulants.

If he is worried about this or any of the symptoms then do get him to see a doctor, but in the meantime don't feed him any more MDMA or other stimulants - the prognosis is not good if this trend continues kittling...

I'd suggest, based on others findings investing in some 5-htp from your local health food store & if your friend insists on taking more pills insist on him taking this supplement the morning after & for the few days to come as it may well help alleviate these nasty unwanted effects, & aid sleep too. Even if he isn't going to take any more pills it may be worth investing to aid his recovery in general.

[Panthers007]

^^^<echo>^^^ Stop. Now. Get sleep. Eat a proper diet. Take vitamins. Look into some 5-HT as suggested. The symptoms should dissipate IF SWIM STOPS.

[Romie1985]

SWIM was thinking, could high doses of caffine cause heart problems. Cause alot of time at work swim will have alot of coffee's as he is tired. SWIM remembers on monday when he had bad heart problems while trying to sleep he did have around 10 coffee's.

Reguarding the audio halloucinations these dont happen that much. Its definately less then a handful per day and its normalyl just something like "hey swim" and thats all.

SWIM will take all then advice posted and see what happens. The last thing he wants to do is stop taking mdma for ever as he really enjoys the rush/feeling of it while being high. If the person asks why he wants 5htp what should SWIM say?

[Lobsang]

The last thing he wants to do is stop taking mdma for ever as he really enjoys the rush/feeling of it while being high.

SWIM SWIM SWIM...This is not good. I would stop the drug now. It may be the last thing that SWIM wants to do but in life we can't always get what we want we get what we need.

[Romie1985]

Originally Posted by Lobsang

SWIM SWIM SWIM...This is not good. I would stop the drug now. It may be the last thing that SWIM wants to do but in life we can't always get what we want we get what we need.

Which part isnt good? the side effects or the part where swim enjoys being high? Would like to know on your reasoning.

[Lobsang]

Originally Posted by Romie1985

Which part isnt good? the side effects or the part where swim enjoys being high? Would like to know on your reasoning.

No SWIM there is nothing wrong with enjoying getting "high". But hearing voices is not good. Not good at all. And anxiety and depression are bad too. The hearing voices is a sign that one could further detach from reality or progress into further problems. This coupled with the anxiety and depression is especially not a good sign. I would strongly suggest stopping now. That's all. Certain people do not handle certain drugs well.

[Spare Chaynge]

The fact that swim has not realized that these symptoms are problems are a bad bad sign.

[Romie1985]

Originally Posted by Lobsang

No SWIM there is nothing wrong with enjoying getting "high". But hearing voices is not good. Not good at all. And anxiety and depression are bad too. The hearing voices is a sign that one could further detach from reality or progress into further problems. This coupled with the anxiety and depression is especially not a good sign. I would strongly suggest stopping now. That's all. Certain people do not handle certain drugs well.

Ah SWIM understands what you mean now. So you think SWIM should stop for ever or just take a long break for maybe a year and then see how he goes?

SWIM never use to experience these before its only been the last 2-3 times.

Originally Posted by Spare Chaynge

The fact that swim has not realized that these symptoms are problems are a bad bad sign.

SWIM does actually realise these are problems, hence why is he trying to find out what people think about this problem. SWIM is just trying to figure out how serious these are. I would also like to reinstate that the voices arnt a lasting thing, only lasts afew days.

One of SWIMS friends once took this thing his dealer sold him called "TRIPITY" (its like xtc but apparently it had LSD also). He said for afew days after he took these pills he actually had the same thing happen. Had voices in his head saying "hey swim" and was seeing stuff for afew days. As SWIMS friend works in a bottle shop he said that he would just be standing there and see bottles flying off the shelf onto the floor without breaking, this lasted around 4-5 days he informed SWIM.

[Lobsang]

Ah SWIM understands what you mean now. So you think SWIM should stop for ever or just take a long break for maybe a year and then see how he goes?

SWIM never use to experience these before its only been the last 2-3 times.

Yes that is what SWIM thinks. Maybe take a long break and then try some other molecules if SWIy feels like it.

[Romie1985]

Originally Posted by Lobsang

Yes that is what SWIM thinks. Maybe take a long break and then try some other molecules if SWIy feels like it.

What would SWIY recommend? SWIM can't afford coca so thats out of it.

[Lobsang]

Originally Posted by Romie1985

What would SWIY recommend? SWIM can't afford coca so thats out of it.

Well like SWIM says SWIY needs a very long break. So planning the next excursions is a bit premature. It would all depend on how SWIy felt after the long break and what SWIy was looking for. I mean SWIM is not really sure what SWIy is looking for from all this.

[Romie1985]

Originally Posted by Lobsang

Well like SWIM says SWIY needs a very long break. So planning the next excursions is a bit premature. It would all depend on how SWIy felt after the long break and what SWIy was looking for. I mean SWIM is not really sure what SWIy is looking for from all this.

Woops NVM, SWIM actually misread youre previous post and misunderstood it. Looks like long break it is. Do you think abusing MDMA for around 10 weeks straight would of contributed to this end result? Between SWIMS last roll and the 10 week binder he had a 1 month break between getting high. Even with a 4 week break SWIM didnt actually find the high to be that crash hot anyways, kinda loosing its magic unfortunately.

[Micklemouse]

Indeed. A Certain Mouse would recommend a break from ALL psychoactives, especially stimulants & psychedelics, but I would also include cannabis in that, for at least a few months.

As I stated above, any of those symptoms taken alone is cause for concern, but appearing all together could lead to greater woes. Many people hear voices as part of their daily life without problem, but when those voices, however benign to start with, are coupled with anxiety, depression & insomnia, then there is a good chance that more psychotic symptoms could appear, especially if the person in question continues to take psychoactives such as MDMA. Please look after your hamster's head - drug-induced psychosis is not fun for anyone involved, & is not always that short-lived unfortunately.

Cutting down on the caffeine will certainly help with the anxiety & insomnia, but please advise your hamster to do this as part of an overall long term recovery program.

As for obtaining 5-htp, it should be available no questions asked, but it is widely used as a sleep aid & as an over the counter anti-depressant.

Edit - yes indeed, a 10 week bender would account for it!

[Lobsang]

Yes I agree with the above. And also SWIy might start taking vitamins and minerals that are natural and from a whole food source. Also an aerobic excersize program and some type of bodywork iof it can be afforded. When the mind is out of alignment the body is as well. And the drugs may cause some diminiched levels of nutrients in the body. So in other words no drugs, excersize, nutrition and maybe bodywork, Tai Chi, yoga to balance one.

[Romie1985]

Is it still alright for SWIM to drink him self retarted each weekend? SWIM dont think he could bare being completely sober when going out clubbing with his friends.

SWIM already takes a multi vitamin every day. SWIM doesnt think he wants to take 5htp as he wont be doing any drugs for along time. He doesnt see any point investing in it as he would only orignally take it for afew days after drug consumption to help sleep and realive his despression/anxiety. Any other vitamins/supplements people can recommend? SWIM doesnt eat any fish at all so maybe it would be worth getting some type of fish supplement?

[Lobsang]

Well it is probably never good to drink oneself "retarded". But alcohol used on the weekend would be not as bad as psychedelics. Not in the same class at all. But when one abstaines from all miond altering substances and bosy chemicals for long periods one gets tremendous balance. And alcohol can weaken that. So ideally no SWIM should not do it, However if SWIM feels SWIM must do it then one should not get "retarded" shitface plastered on the weekend but just a good buzz. But the fastest way to balance is total stone cold sobriety for extended periods. Like for example top boxers will sometimes stop all alcohol for months while they train for a fight. Because they believe even one day will slightly set them back. So that's all.

[Micklemouse]

There are plant based Omega-3, -6 & -9 (flax-seed I believe) that are as good if not better than the fish based ones. A Certain Mouse has used 5-htp successfully to counter mild depressive symptoms before they turn into something bigger, as have others, so it may well be worth looking into, even if your hamster is taking a break from MDMA, especially if he is still having trouble sleeping. High dose B vitamins are also worth investing in, especially if hammy likes a beer or 2 - you can't beat Berocca (unless you don't like oranges!) for a mega multi-vitamin!

I would also recommend going easy on the booze - A Certain Mouse tells me from experience how easy it is to be led astray whilst drunk, & has on occasion found himself in some right messes when he went out with every intention of staying straight apart from a "couple of beers"! There is a lot to be said for the straight edge night out, especially if the club's a good'n', the crowd is up for it & the tunes are fine - contact high does exist!

[Romie1985]

Originally Posted by Micklemouse

I would also recommend going easy on the booze - A Certain Mouse tells me from experience how easy it is to be led astray whilst drunk, & has on occasion found himself in some right messes when he went out with every intention of staying straight apart from a "couple of beers"! There is a lot to be said for the straight edge night out, especially if the club's a good'n', the crowd is up for it & the tunes are fine - contact high does exist!

SWIM knows exactly what your mouse means. This is what happened to him last weekend. Was ment to be non drug weekend but alcohol and a friend who didnt want to roll alone + he kepting whinging for over a hour at me easily changed SWIMS mind. If he was sober, this would of not of happened and SWIM wouldnt be posting here atm.

[Micklemouse]

It might be worth telling at least a couple of Hammy's mates at least a little of what has been going on, & that Hammy will be straight-edging for a while. Some people will be more sympathetic & supportive than others which is to be expected, & Hammy may be surprised at who those people actually are. The whiny friend should be told that his badgering is not welcome, & actually contributed to a week of misery - remind him that No means No.

Best of luck!

[Romie1985]

With 5htp how much should swim order?
how big should his doses be and how often?
how long should he take this for?
and there seams to be a fairly big pricing difference between brands, is there much difference between then or do they all do the same thing?

[Micklemouse]

At this point I'm gonna be lazy & say use the Forum Search engine & always read the label.

One thing I will say is do not use 5-htp alongside other serotonin boosting medications. The length of time Hammy takes any supplement is up to him really - everyone is different, but A Certain Mouse usually finds himself trailing his use off naturally as his mood improves.

Do your homework & stay safe!

[Romie1985]

SWIM ended up buying a bottle of 100mg 5htp caps enhanced with 15mg Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine hydrochloride) and 200mg of Vitamin C. These should be fine yea?