Side effects - Nightmares / Night Terrors / Sleep Paralysis !!!

[Kashinoda]

SWIM hasn't rolled for over 6 months, and when he does usually has a fair dosage (8-15 pills) sometimes over two days depending.

on Sunday SWIM and his friend dropped only 2 pills in the early hours (6am) and went to watch the sunrise, it was a pretty awesome experience and was one of the best highs SWIM had ever had. Went back home and crashed and slept fine.

Last night however SWIM had a major case of fucked up sleep. Kept falling asleep, having a nightmare... then experiencing sleep paralysis. Was times where his eyes were open, the things in the room were attacking his girlfriend and i was screaming for her but nothing was happening, his body was non responsive, woke up crying and sweating scared shitless..

Must of had over 15+ nightmares last night, all accompanied by a huge falling/head major spinning feeling. Skipped work today SWIM couldn't get hold of himself this morning.

SWIM's had a minor case of this before after doing over 15 pills on a weekend, so I really don't understand this? SWIM's friend is fine (was his first time roll as well).

Know many people have had simular experiences, but this was such a small dose? Could serotonin levels really fuck up that much? Are there other factors?

[Panthers007]

Psychological factors may have come into play. Don't worry - it's not a dirty word. SWIM could try to untangle the nightmares. Looking to see if there is a common-thread in them. A certain symbol (object, person, idea, environment) that runs through all. If so, SWIM may have found an issue from SWIM's subconscious mind that is on the verge of resolution. MDMA is very good at bringing this on.

This isn't a cause for concern. Rather it's cause to rejoice. It means SWIM is undergoing a healing process and will emerge in a more holistic framework.

Advice: Relax. Let nature take it's course. And don't try to rush the process with more MDMA. It's good SWIM knows to use this material sparingly.

[freshacejay]

SWIM only experiances similar but less severe effects when meth is in the mix. This as panthers said though, sounds like something more profound since it occured with a delay and more severety.
Try tyding up your life and work hard. Sounds NAZI but helps SWIM.

[WhiteIsland]

SWIM always gets nightmares after rolling. Usually not the first but rahther the second to fourth night. This seem to be linked to the amount though. Stronger roll, or especially after more days in a row the nightmares get worse

[Stiney]

Originally Posted by Kashinoda

SWIM hasn't rolled for over 6 months, and when he does usually has a fair dosage (8-15 pills) sometimes over two days depending.

on Sunday SWIM and his friend dropped only 2 pills in the early hours (6am) and went to watch the sunrise, it was a pretty awesome experience and was one of the best highs SWIM had ever had. Went back home and crashed and slept fine.

Last night however SWIM had a major case of fucked up sleep. Kept falling asleep, having a nightmare... then experiencing sleep paralysis. Was times where his eyes were open, the things in the room were attacking his girlfriend and i was screaming for her but nothing was happening, his body was non responsive, woke up crying and sweating scared shitless..

Must of had over 15+ nightmares last night, all accompanied by a huge falling/head major spinning feeling. Skipped work today SWIM couldn't get hold of himself this morning.

SWIM's had a minor case of this before after doing over 15 pills on a weekend, so I really don't understand this? SWIM's friend is fine (was his first time roll as well).

Know many people have had simular experiences, but this was such a small dose? Could serotonin levels really fuck up that much? Are there other factors?

You would be surprised how common this is amongst MDMA users Kashi (sleep paralysis I mean), I guess most people just don't talk about it when it happens to them so thier isn't much info on it. But Swim has brought this conversation up several times online on various websites and also amongst his freinds and associates and on average it seems that roughly 20-25% or there abouts of people who use MDMA semi-reguarly have experienced sleep paralysis. In pretty much all the cases swim has discussed with people it occured when using MDMA far two frequently, 2 days in a row or every weekend for a few weeks ect, and in every single case he has discussed with people the symptoms disapeered completely when they cut way back on their consumption of MDMA i.e. stopped being complete and utter imbeciles that shouldn't be allowed take any drugs at all (swimself included).

I cant say if their are other factors but there is definately one common factor and we all know what that is, symptoms like this are your bodies way of telling you to cop on. Taking pills two days in a row is not good and can only lead to trouble, same goes for taking 8-15 pills.

*Edit* I just noticed you say this occured on only 2 pills this time. That does sound unusual with what I have usually heard about sleep paralysis and MDMA use, but no doubt the 6am start could have had something to do with it, presumably since you slept when you went home you hadn't slept the night before? Already being sleep deprived and then throwing in a serotonin flooding drug into the equation might have triggered it. It's not a good idea to put your body through any strenuos activity, which taking MDMA is, when you are functioning with out adequate sleep. Two common causes of sleep paralysis are MDMA use and sleep deprivation , so combining the two is pretty likely to vastly increase the chances of having an episode.

[Masa]

yeah nightmares and night sweats swIm had stopped useing for like 2 months and they had stopped but started again

[Panthers007]

<koff!> Moderator please delete. t/y

[Masa]

done and done

[Bajeda]

Don't know if 'Night Terrors' really fits in the thread title, as a distinguishing characteristic of the phenomena (differentiating it from nightmares) is that they generally aren't remembered the next day except in rare cases.

Originally Posted by Stiney

You would be surprised how common this is amongst MDMA users Kashi (sleep paralysis I mean), I guess most people just don't talk about it when it happens to them so thier isn't much info on it. But Swim has brought this conversation up several times online on various websites and also amongst his freinds and associates and on average it seems that roughly 20-25% or there abouts of people who use MDMA semi-reguarly have experienced sleep paralysis. In pretty much all the cases swim has discussed with people it occured when using MDMA far two frequently, 2 days in a row or every weekend for a few weeks ect, and in every single case he has discussed with people the symptoms disapeered completely when they cut way back on their consumption of MDMA i.e. stopped being complete and utter imbeciles that shouldn't be allowed take any drugs at all (swimself included).

"Several recent surveys including our own suggest that between 25-30% of the population reports that they have experienced at least a mild form of sleep paralysis at least once and about 20-30% of these have had the experience on several occasions."

From your guesstimate, it would seem that the prevalence of life-time experience with sleep paralysis would be about equal to life-time prevalence in the entire population. Where did you get the 20-25% figure though, as just guessing it based on personal observations and experience isn't especially useful.



It seems like more frequent and higher dose ecstasy use would put you more at risk for triggering an episode of sleep paralysis, as the phenomena is barely mentioned in the literature concerning ecstasy / mdma effects and it would appear that anecdotally, only heavy users report experiencing this.

One study [1] found that 20% of users with 10 or less ecstasy experiences attributed increased anxiety to their use, and amongst those with up 10-100+ experiences about 40-47% suggested they experienced increased anxiety due to ecstasy use.

Of the more frequent users (10-100 and 100+ lifetime use) 40% and 60% for each category indicated that they were experiencing difficultly with sleep, another potential trigger for sleep paralysis, particularly when combined with anxiety / stress.

Another study [2] confirms that potential triggers of sleep paralysis are included among the after-effects of ecstasy use, and that this is exacerbated by polysubstance use, setting (rave or party environment), and the reasons for use (set).



I think it is also important to distinguish between MDMA and ecstasy, as MDMA taken in a clinical setting doesn't seem to have the same side effects profile as ecstasy taken in a recreational setting [3,4], possibly influenced by set and setting, but likely largely due to adulterants commonly found in ecstasy tablets. Even caffeine has been found to intensify and prolong the adverse effects of MDMA [5], so even relatively pure materials are still not as good as getting the pure substance itself, and getting speedy pills or rolls with other adulterants is far worse [6]

A study looking at the effects of ecstasy use on sleep indices found that most indicators were not changed to a significant degree, but the number of awakenings at night increased among ecstasy users (1.5 awakenings) and was even higher among abstinent ecstasy users (1.7 awakenings) compared to the control group (1.2 awakenings). It also suggested that perhaps individuals prone to psychpathological symptoms have a predisposition to ecstasy use. [7]

A review of literature concerning ecstasy's (and other drugs) impact on sleep habits found that Stage 2 sleep is reduced in abstaining heavy ecstasy users, while Stage 1 sleep is increased and overall sleep time is reduced. There was a trend for reduced REM latency as well, which is interesting. [8]

Some studies were conducted on reduced REM latency (in the form of SOREM) and its relation to sleep paralysis, finding a significant correlation. [9] Perhaps reduced REM latency combined with increased sleep awakenings is the primary reason for abstinent heavy ecstasy users to experience these problems.


There is more I'd like to look at regarding this topic, as it is something that hasn't come to my attention before, but I'm having trouble getting a few articles that could shed light on the situation. I'll see if I can manage to grab them. Until then, there really isn't much research on the prevalence of this particular problem amongst ecstasy users. Hopefully things will get better for swiy, and maybe this will also deter some people from taking large doses of ecstasy frequently (though you'd think the other risks would be deterrent enough!).





1. Differential experiences of the psychobiological sequelae of ecstasy use: quantitative and qualitative data from an internet study (2006)

2. "Partying" hard: party style, motives for and effects of MDMA use at rave parties (2005)

3. Altered States: The Clinical Effects of Ecstasy (2003)

4. Human psychopharmacology of Ecstasy; a review of 15 years of empirical research (2001)

5. Association of caffeine to MDMA does not increase antinociception but potentiates adverse effects of this recreational drug (2006)

6. MDMA ("ecstasy"), methamphetamine and their combination: long-term changes in social interaction and neurochemistry in the rat

7. Current and former ecstasy users report different sleep to matched controls: a web-based questionnaire study (2008)

8. Effect of illicit recreational drugs upon sleep: Cocaine, ecstasy and marijuana (Schierenbecka et al 2008)

9. http://www.miqrogroove.com/writing/S...Paralysis.html
http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/...act/129/6/1609
Recurrent S.P. is different story - http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...00002/art00004

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good info, thanks.

[Kashinoda]

Thanks for all the info Bajeda just reading through all the reports now.

What SWIM still doesnt seem to understand is, he has been clean for over 6 months and the dosage was very small compared to his usual idiotic amount.

Also to be noted with SWIMs previous Sleep Paralysis/Nightmares it was bad but wasn't 10% of what happened this week, this week was very traumatic. SWIM wonders if he should write it off as something being diced with the drug its self, or due to new MUCH more stressful lifestyle? Just slightly concerned doing E last year might have fucked the brain some what, although SWIM only done pills for 3 months on and off...

One last thing, couldnt find anything in the articles or information about possible sleeping aids and if they would be bad/benefitial? SWIM often takes a lot of diazapam when he needs to force himself to sleep and gets a good sleep on it. Could taking that or something simular help?

Thanks in Advance

[Bajeda]

Clonazepam is indicated for the treatment of night terrors and sleep paralysis (or at least it is prescribed for such purposes). Not sure if other benzodiazipines are equally effective, but can't think of a reason why they'd make things worse.

[anony]

Kashinoda, swim had the very same thing. It contiued for approximately a week, but it was a week of hell. Swim had a huge amount of pills this one night, approximately the same as what swiy is used to. Swim continued to work although it was a week of severe headaches, severe dizziness, a feeling of sickness. When swim tried to sleep, as he began to 'drop off' he would have a bad nightmare and it would wake him up again. swim found it very hard to sleep.
i know this might sound stupid but swim dropped some more pills, and was fine from then on.

[Stiney]

Originally Posted by Bajeda

Where did you get the 20-25% figure though, as just guessing it based on personal observations and experience isn't especially useful.

It is just the figure that I've observed. Since swim experinced the phenomenon I have asked a large proportion (over 200 people) of the people I know that have taken ecstacy weather its ever happened to them, and somewhere between a 1/5 and a 1/4 have said yes, about 90% of them saying it occured in the couple of weeks after a heavy ecstacy binge, most of them saying they never experienced it before and most say it ceased when they stopped taking ecstacy. I know its not exactly a highly controlled experiment that gave the results but I wouldn't call it useless. Anyway thanks for the post and the links, lots of good info.

[anony]

Originally Posted by Stiney

It is just the figure that I've observed. Since swim experinced the phenomenon I have asked a large proportion (over 200 people) of the people I know that have taken ecstacy weather its ever happened to them, and somewhere between a 1/5 and a 1/4 have said yes, about 90% of them saying it occured in the couple of weeks after a heavy ecstacy binge, most of them saying they never experienced it before and most say it ceased when they stopped taking ecstacy. I know its not exactly a highly controlled experiment that gave the results but I wouldn't call it useless. Anyway thanks for the post and the links, lots of good info.

How the hell did swiy manage to conduct such a large survey to a bunch of people that would probably end up kissing you before you completed your sentence?
Hopefully that dint sound 2 gay

[HorseBucket]

Swims brother used to sleepwalk and wake up standing in closets and scream in his sleep all the time. He did MDMA like mad every weekend for about 6 years before this started happening though.