What has the psychedelic experience done for SWIY

[Burnt]

Hey decided to start this thread in response to idea by nature boy to discuss what SWIM psychedelic experiences has taught SWIM about to quote douglas adams "life the universe everything".

SWIM has had many intense beautiful psychedelic experiences and to sum up what they all meant would be very difficult but lets start with one trip that stands out in SWIMs memory and others can build upon this discussion with ideas experience etc.

SWIM remembers one day being on a hike with a few hits of nice acid in SWIMs head. As SWIM approached the peak of the mountain the acid began to peak. SWIM decided to lay down and just experience the beauty of the moment that was unfolding. His friends who were on mushrooms continued hiking a bit ahead and that was fine SWIM was confident in his ability to follow the trail.

So SWIM lays down and the sun is just reaching its height and gleeming all the plants around are just basking in the sunlight like SWIM everything was like diamonds reaching this glowing ecstatic beauty. SWIM remembers the exact moment everything peaked and reached some kind of synchronistic hook up the frequency of light sound and the energy of SWIMs mind reached a state of complete bliss just totally blown apart into the beauty of that timeless moment. SWIM began to think "wow it makes total sense why people worshipped the sun" before even knowing what science has taught us about the sun. All life as far as our ancestors knew was depandent on that large ball in the sky. But beyond that SWIM began to realize that "wow the sun really is like god" its atoms and energy is what made SWIMs and all other SWIMs life possible. After SWIM was just totally blissful and caught up with his friend and remembers saying "If the whole world just experience what SWIM just experienced there would be no war".
Now this experience should not be considered a delusion because what SWIM realized fits in with current models of the universe. The stars that blew up to create the sun and the sun created us really are our creators. Now no one knows what created the universe but SWIMs trip did not seek to answer that question because there is no answer right now to that question. SWIMs trip also didn't delude SWIM into believing things that SWIM otherwise would have a hard time believing it just make SWIM aware of that beautiful thought in such a way that it deeply moved SWIM to a closer understanding of nature.

Now SWIM has also had experiences that he considers potential delusions but before discussing those SWIM would like to hear some thoughts of others.

Reputation Comments on this post:

same beliefs & views

[Metomni]

SWIM has had a couple very powerful interactions with what he believes are his spirit animals. Wolves, he has always known were one of them, but he had a very intense dream of snakes, which are his worst fear. He was surrounded by at least a dozen vipers all lunging at him in slow motion, and while they were coming at him it was like an inner debate about everything he feared and appreciated about them. Animals are very close to SWIM, dogs are amazing, and wolves share a close connection, but this snake vision was astounding and very indescribably powerful.

He also saw a ghost on mescaline once, it could have been just the trip, but from what he describes, the mescaline simply put him in the same plane as the ghost and so he could physically interact with him for once.

Once on 2C-I he sat on the roof and watched a thunderstorm roll in and couldn't fathom what his ancestors thought of storms and stars and the sun.

What psychedelics have done for SWIM is simply this; they've broadened his mind from what he believed was an open mind with a wide scope, to something that actually feels free and open-minded. It's also allowed him to see that there is always growth to be undertaken, even though it feels open-minded now, there are things yet to learn.

[N0ly]

psychedelics have allowed swim to believe see and understand that at a molecular level we are all one electron one neutron and one proton in multiple places simultaneously. Also that the world you see around you is an illusion that you create everyday. course it is real because people believe it to be.

[Lobsang]

SWIM has written about his. There have been good and bad. They are all in his profile history in the threads he has started.

[lostmente]

Psychedelics taught swim that if swim is nervous enough then other people pick up on it. And if swim is REALLY nervous and pays too much attention to whats going on around swim then things start to relate to swim. Eventually if the individuals are aware enough they start to be a bit more active...the thing is that since the nervous swim was aware of the situation first so it is swims domain that the individuals come into, and unfortunately swims thoughts are the ones attracting attention and some how swims thoughts dominate the environment. Quickly individuals become aware of this and will do their utmost to keep swim from getting to boisterous and understanding the power that swim wields.

So for many years swim was heckled for swims very thoughts by complete strangers, and hinted by friends that it wasn't their fault but that swim should keep on going because what swim could achieve was more spectacular than could ever have been seen before.

Alas, swim had serious issues of confidence, sexuality, respect and boundaries. All these things were mere thoughts but as it was swim who appeared by individuals to be approaching them...it was always just what they said.

After time away, swim understood what self was. Swim took upon swims self to speak that which was direct as those did to swim. Quickly swim's worries dissapeared. Individuals would bother him for a moment, swim would look into their soul and speak. Individuals went quiet. Swim had peace

[Burnt]

how do SWIMMERs interpret paranoid delusions experiences under the influence of psychedelics? SWIM having experienced the light side of psychedelics has also on occasion experienced the dark side. complete and utter delusions about what people were doing about being under attack etc. where do you think such things come from? it certainly is an irrational response to stimuli that normally would not bother someone and could also involved psychological issues going on at the time but how does that manifest itself into total delusion?

[lostmente]

It's easier to say it was crazy when you didn't see it through. Very common act throughout time....perhaps the idea that someone could have that much influence brings about a fear of God punishment...

A delusion is mearly a belief not held by others. Reality is only that which is acknowledged

lostmente added 1 Minutes and 56 Seconds later...

The delusion would be the perception, not the action. Suffice to say I have experienced things with others that I could prove to them happened and yet they were generally too intense for them to recall.

[stoneinfocus]

Swim realized, that there's a place in him, which is the closest to himself and which enables him to separate out all influences, that hold no truth. Sciences hold truth and they might bring this feeling back to swim, again.

It also enabled him to think about all influences as a meter on a scale and he can think of making this meter go back to zero again, as a concious visualization, with some concentration involved (guess, something like meditation), and this made up quite some strenght he has, but I also think, this has always been there, just that he older he got, the harder it became to get back and realize and also to relativize the influnece of society, seeing the insignificance, and that wrong is just wrong, no matter how many billion people, executives and laws might tell you the opposite, no matter how many guns and tortures you're facing.

You yourself change by getting older, but this change and ways of experiencing lies in your nature, too, so psychedelics might helped sorting out which changes were "natural" and which one is just a forced on play-game of society adn experiences made and processed on false grounds of plainly being influenced and not experiencing and processing these experiences on grounds of your natural roots.

[Lobsang]

A delusion is mearly a belief not held by others. Reality is only that which is acknowledged

A delusion is a fixed belief that is untrue. And many times a delusion is held by many in common and acknowledged by many. But it is still a delusion.

[lostmente]

It wouldn't be overly difficult instigate a situation where swiu were aware of such phenomenon as reality shifting. The thing is that people who get involved in such acts are RATHER guarded about the events, this is because people will almost instantly put things that relate to those experiences down as immaterial, that the individual responsible was not of sane mind...its true. Doesn't mean it didn't happen but it certainly means its a hell of a lot easier to say it didn't than have everyone accept it.

Ever seen the MRI scans of someone who is experiencing spiritual phenomena and someone deep in psychosis? They are for lack of a better word indistinguishable.One must love when people adopt public perception of mental illness.

Just as a bit of background, one psychologist (shall be referred to as LC) (a field some consider as being the closest thing to a scientific take on thought processes) is specialized in the field of psychosis, an active participant in the field...teaches, contributes in studies etc.) LC doesn't consider what swim put forward earlier to be delusional, its just that the overwhelming majority of people who accept that as being part of reality will rapidly become dead or catatonic. For LC, swim is the first patient (of many as LC is (at least one of) the top rated psychologists of swims city (which has a university that is active in the field of psychology as well as other therapy disciplines) to treat first time psychotic episodes) that has held characteristics of psychosis and (at least from a mental health point of view) successfully integrated them into ones life.

swim has delusions, but they are often explanations of 'phenomena'. The phenomena can be repeated given the correct circumstances

swim's delusions don't last long, swim actively chases them and inevitbly they crumble.

[Lobsang]

Ever seen the MRI scans of someone who is experiencing spiritual phenomena and someone deep in psychosis? They are for lack of a better word indistinguishable.

Well sure they are indistinguishable because the MR is structural analysis of the brain and neither of those situations augments structure. But in any event I would be happy to review any scans you can point me to of the patients. Can you give a reference for this in the radiologic literature or some scans that are on the web?

Thanks..

[lostmente]

Originally Posted by Lobsang

A delusion is a fixed belief that is untrue. And many times a delusion is held by many in common and acknowledged by many. But it is still a delusion.

you seem to be catching on to the circular logic of such a thing. Delusions need not be fixed...nothing is fixed. You could kill the individual and then they no longer hold the delusion.

Someone is delusional when they resist one way of thinking more than it can be demonstrated to them.

Like any label, its purely perception...there is no absolute nature of such things. Anything is absolutely possible. Relative impossibility is very common. Relative impossibility is like saying Joe didn't make it to the game on friday, Jackie goes the exact same way...in the same car and same speed etc etc etc...everything the same except Jackie was driving,

if Joe didn't make it then Jackie can't.

Comparative existence is convenient, not definitive unless you decided it is

lostmente added 1 Minutes and 20 Seconds later...

perhaps it is the one saying its deluded who is delusional.

It's a shame that call to authority is considered valid

[ADVOR]

Psychedelics provided me with the answer to life, the Universe, and everything. That's all I can say. I know the answer but the answer can not be put into words.

[Lobsang]

Psychedelics provided me with the answer to life, the Universe, and everything. That's all I can say. I know the answer but the answer can not be put into words.

That has to be about the most simple and well articulated statement on the issue I have heard.

[stoneinfocus]

Originally Posted by Lobsang

That has to be about the most simple and well articulated statement on the issue I have heard.

... and one of the worst; if there were nothing to it, nothing concerning reality nor your way of living in it and if you didn't try to express yourself and give into the results of these experiences, didn't get to using them, didn't make you skill your ways of expressing yourself, didn't try to reach the best possible approach of making something out of them and didn't make them come true to the best extend possible in reality, they were absolutely worthless, they were just like a nice movie; consume, go out = had a nice time. Okay, if that's it for you, but swim thinks there's much more to it and if seen othewise, the potential of harm, coming from those new experiences and revelations of these drugs, eventually just came knocking at your door.

[Burnt]

SWIM thinks psychedelics are capable of inducing both delusion and geniune knowledge. The trouble can sometimes be sorting the two out and often within the delusion is some truth and often one can gain knowledge from a delusional experience. Sometimes during the experience its very unpleasant but after when SWIMMERs reflect on the experience a lot can be learned.

Another question. Has the psychedelic experience taught or given SWIMMERs knowledge about anything that they think came from outside. What I mean is like entity contact can take place or you may feel as if you are learning directly from the universe itself. Do you think that the mind is capable of doing all these things and that we have a vast store of knowledge that we may have gained from life experience but its very subtle and often lieing in our subconscious or is it that the mind is connecting to other minds or sources of intelligence. Moreover it could also be that whatever mind really is closely tied in with other sources of intelligence and then the answer in a way is both. Any ideas?

[poorleno]

Originally Posted by Burnt

SWIM thinks psychedelics are capable of inducing both delusion and geniune knowledge. The trouble can sometimes be sorting the two out and often within the delusion is some truth and often one can gain knowledge from a delusional experience. Sometimes during the experience its very unpleasant but after when SWIMMERs reflect on the experience a lot can be learned.

Another question. Has the psychedelic experience taught or given SWIMMERs knowledge about anything that they think came from outside. What I mean is like entity contact can take place or you may feel as if you are learning directly from the universe itself. Do you think that the mind is capable of doing all these things and that we have a vast store of knowledge that we may have gained from life experience but its very subtle and often lieing in our subconscious or is it that the mind is connecting to other minds or sources of intelligence. Moreover it could also be that whatever mind really is closely tied in with other sources of intelligence and then the answer in a way is both. Any ideas?

Yes- I think so. It seemed to show swim that they are only small yet massive in the big scheme of things and I think this is sometimes where the paranoia can kick in when things seem interconnected. It also made swim feel that although they felt meaningless they were really more in touch with 'truth' (can't express in words! ^^^) than they had thought in the conscious self. Also that there were dark and light forces around which could be used whichever way swim intended..

[Lobsang]

Psychedelics taught SWIM to better discern delusion from reality. And that delusion often represents a reality and is symbolic of it. But one must decipher and reason what the symbols mean. SWIM believes that the "Wee beasties that go bump in the night" are symbols for a reality.

[ADVOR]

Originally Posted by stoneinfocus

... and one of the worst; if there were nothing to it, nothing concerning reality nor your way of living in it and if you didn't try to express yourself and give into the results of these experiences, didn't get to using them, didn't make you skill your ways of expressing yourself, didn't try to reach the best possible approach of making something out of them and didn't make them come true to the best extend possible in reality, they were absolutely worthless, they were just like a nice movie; consume, go out = had a nice time. Okay, if that's it for you, but swim thinks there's much more to it and if seen othewise, the potential of harm, coming from those new experiences and revelations of these drugs, eventually just came knocking at your door.

SWIM never said there was "nothing to it". SWIM just simply cannot ever express the concepts he has learned from psychedelics with the language SWIM has learned. There is also a lot of information SWIM has learned about himself through psychedelics. Not just the answer to the Universe... more like the answers to his personal problems.

ADVOR added 5 Minutes and 30 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by Lobsang

Psychedelics taught SWIM to better discern delusion from reality. And that delusion often represents a reality and is symbolic of it. But one must decipher and reason what the symbols mean. SWIM believes that the "Wee beasties that go bump in the night" are symbols for a reality.

SWIM discussed this with his friend just yesterday. Before doing psychedelics, SWIM might have been afraid of walking through the forest in the middle of the pitch-black night because there might be some unknown monster waiting to grab him. Now that SWIM has experienced psychedelics, he is no longer afraid of the unknown. SWIM knows what is real and what is not.

[sylenth]

for smurf the experience has given alot more clarity to answers that smurf & people are battling with. smurf has learnt ones equality in the universe with every thing & how to use the knowledge of the workings of smurfs own mind & other peoples minds to smurfs advantage in all aspects of our humanly created system & nature.

smurf has been so plugged in to the universal consciouness of thoughts & good in the world that it feels as if at that moment 'with enough lsd' smurf can give the answer to almost every question flung his way. words smurf has never used before are all of a sudden being used & the meanings of them fully understood. psychic abilities seem present cos there is just so many coincedencas too often in a day each day, things only smurf can understand & could only share at that moment in time with out words.

it's like you are part of everyone's thoughts & the culture of the past. basically a 3rd eye that is very much open on a high level including projection. it's like it was all so meant to be at that moment in time. 'destiny' if one believes in that. da ja vu on lsd is also pretty interesting to get the mind going. 'opening the mind is wording it lightly' there is some powerful shit going on with the forces involved.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Very excellent point. I am glad that you are doing well.

[podge]

What have psychedelics done for swim....impossible to really put into words as all swimmers will agree but swim will try get the basics down.

They destroyed all his preconceived notions and idea's and gave him the oppertunity to re-evaluate reality from a new fresh perspective.

They raised all the hard introspective questions whether he liked it or not , and with experience and persistence he has used these insights to change himself at a very fundamental level for the better.

They allowed him to experience the highs and lows of the emotional spectrum with friends which also provided insight into social dynamic which otherwise may have taken a lifetime or more to realize. Riding the storm of experience with friends has also added strength and dimension to friendships.

They gave him the courage to be himself in his sober life, to not bow down and agree or tag along with things which he doesnt agree with it simply because its easier or convenient. To be content to be himself despite the social pressures which would have him do or say things which would conflict with what he knows to be right... that is a great gift.

They helped peak his interest in things which otherwise would have been overlooked , only when his horizons were opened did he realize how small a box of experience he had been limiting himself too.

They helped him realize the damage certain other drugs were having him, and as a result he has changed his patterns. Sometimes its easy to overlook the dangers of certain drugs especially when one is having fun.


The above words while all true will never do justice to what he has really gained, at this stage he finds it sad that some people can take these great tools a thousand times and never gain more than a few laughs. Hoffman put it well while remarking about LSD but it applies to all psychedelics :

"It is just a tool to turn us into what we are supposed to be."

[Stilla_junkie]

Final Word On The Topic ^^^^^

[Anonbiologist]

Originally Posted by Burnt

how do SWIMMERs interpret paranoid delusions experiences under the influence of psychedelics? SWIM having experienced the light side of psychedelics has also on occasion experienced the dark side. complete and utter delusions about what people were doing about being under attack etc. where do you think such things come from? it certainly is an irrational response to stimuli that normally would not bother someone and could also involved psychological issues going on at the time but how does that manifest itself into total delusion?

I read a good book on Drugs with a section about LSD ("Drugs: Medical, Psychological and Social Facts" By Peter Laurie, Published by Penguin, 1971) which said that LSD temporarily and reversibly degraded (or melted) the fat sheath around the long wire like neuronal cells. The sheaths provide an insulated environment in which an action potential can be generated along the nerve fibre.

Put simply in an analogy, imagine taking off all the rubber or plastic off the electrical wires in the computer and trying to turn it on, it would short circuit, all the electrical information would going every which way as wires crossed over everyway (for about a second as it destroys itself).

Fortunately the human mind is stronger than a (comparitively basic) computer and the sheaths are regenerated as the substance is removed from the body and normal function resumes.

Originally Posted by lostmente

Ever seen the MRI scans of someone who is experiencing spiritual phenomena and someone deep in psychosis? They are for lack of a better word indistinguishable.One must love when people adopt public perception of mental illness.

That sounds about right, considering the sensory nerve impulses are "shortcircuiting".

Food for thought.

[humdroid]

Psychedelic experiences = "A gift that keeps on giving"

[cubenisdreaming27]

SWIM knows that psychedelics showed him that civilization angers mother earth and she is slowly taking back what is hers. when things mold and decay that is mother earth taking back material that origanally came from her. and some day we will all return to dust. and we are all one