Psychedelics and God

[The Dreamer]

Dosage:

My cat hasn't tried any really hard hallucinogens yet. He's quite fond of salvia but seems to be over sensitive to it. It just scares the shit out of him unless he takes it in small doses (he uses one or two bowls of normal (1x) foliage that he grows himself). Cannabis however seems to give him some pretty decent CEV's. But then again he hasn't tried the serious stuff yet so maybe others wouldn't consider my CEV's decent at all.

Question:

So, what my cat is really asking here is: does the use of psychedelics promote a belief in God? He's been an atheist for a couple of years now until just recently. Right around when he started experimenting. In addition to being much happier he also noticed this profound feeling (even when he's not on anything) that there is some driving force behind the universe. It didn't occur to him that there might be a connection until it came up in conversation with a couple of his friends who also say that since they've started they feel as though they believe in 'purpose-related things' that they didn't believe in before.

But this is really messing with my cat because he's been diagnosed with depression and he once joined a very strange and abusive church as a result. Obviously, this is a loaded question for him and he's not sure how to approach these feelings. Are they symptoms or epiphanies or isn't there a difference?

Has anybody else felt similarly? And if so what did their cats do about it?

[newgrower]

SWIM is an atheist and has done lots of psychedelics. IMO, psychedelics do tend to work on the parts of the brain that have to do with religious experience. They can let you see the interconnectiveness of everything and break down the sense of self. But IMO, none of this makes you believe in god if you aren't inclined to in the first place - it's a matter of interpretation.

It sounds like SWIY may be someone who is religious by nature but had a bad experience with church. SWIM would suggest not to suppress these feelings but rather be careful in choosing a new church. SWIM would suggest a large mainstream church or a universalist church. Watch out for any church that treats their priest or leader as divinity or try to control the lives of their worshipers.

[The Dreamer]

Oh, my cat will not be returning to church anytime soon. He may believe there is something going on upstairs but of the many churches he's tried they all seem to have been a rip off. However, something more along the lines of a philosophical society with no mandatory tenants may pique his interest someday. Haven't found anything like it though.

[Nature Boy]

Psychedelics are what you make of them. Some might find God in their mushrooms, for others it can be a confirmation of their underlying religious scepticism. Psychedelics can allow you to catch a glimpse of the universe's intricacies. It's at the individual's discretion whether they attach the experience to faith or understanding.

[RedYellow_OrpheusKii]

This is a really hard one for anyone to really tackle. God undoubtedly reveals Himself to those who have never done hard drugs once in their life, but then again those who have may or may not hone into a consciousness in which the mastermind behind an intricate design begins to take shape. I don't think any one person can state "THIS IS GOD" and then describe a being capable of drawing up a UNIVERSE filled with some of the most beatuiful creations. just think about our world alone. i mean even the human body seems like it was planned out so VERY carefully. "Hm, he's going to need to create...I'll give him hands. He is going to need to see, I'll give him eyes." We can only begin to tap into that kind of truth in small portions, as we are only human beings.

As far as drugs are concerned I find it fascinating that there are creations from God, like plantlife, that have the ability to alter states of mind and unlock doors within one's consciousness. I'm not going to go as far as saying "if you want to know God one must do drugs!" but its really up to the person as to whether or not its within their cards to embark upon that journey......Destiny just may have her say in the matter as well

[razorweb]

Originally Posted by RedYellow_OrpheusKii

This is a really hard one for anyone to really tackle. God undoubtedly reveals Himself to those who have never done hard drugs once in their life, but then again those who have may or may not hone into a consciousness in which the mastermind behind an intricate design begins to take shape. I don't think any one person can state "THIS IS GOD" and then describe a being capable of drawing up a UNIVERSE filled with some of the most beatuiful creations. just think about our world alone. i mean even the human body seems like it was planned out so VERY carefully. "Hm, he's going to need to create...I'll give him hands. He is going to need to see, I'll give him eyes." We can only begin to tap into that kind of truth in small portions, as we are only human beings.

As far as drugs are concerned I find it fascinating that there are creations from God, like plantlife, that have the ability to alter states of mind and unlock doors within one's consciousness. I'm not going to go as far as saying "if you want to know God one must do drugs!" but its really up to the person as to whether or not its within their cards to embark upon that journey......Destiny just may have her say in the matter as well

The heightening of our senses opens up a whole new perspective of information that normally is filtered out by our consciousness how we interpret this information is what causes the mystical experiences as we can more closely feel the god force of love that drives consciousness. Life is awareness and awareness is consciousness.

[The Dreamer]

My cat has calmed himself a bit. The idea that his beliefs where more dependent on his emotions and experiences than his logical thoughts broad-sided him a bit.

Nature boy my cat agrees. Psychedelics seem to cause climactic thoughts about ones beliefs; the way having a baby or witnessing a death might cause a person to make climactic decisions about their life. And obviously its a strong tendency not an absolute cause.

Red Yellow my cat does not believe in destiny but he does believe in evolution and evolutionary systems. Perhaps he may have a tendency toward belief in a God while others may have a tendency not to. If he sees that certain beliefs cause people to be miserable or to hold several other ridiculous beliefs then he may let his tendency die the way an addict must release his addiction to die without every actually conquering it.

In that way he believes in destiny. One might say he is destined to confront a God-shaped cosmos. But I am not sure how it will end.

[Mr. Giraffe]

I'm loath to talk about God, but I would say that the studies and reports indicate that 'oneness', a connected feeling to the universe/ the human overmind/ your own range of cognitive faculties. Generally, people report a feeling of increased purpose and a sense of underlying order to reality. My cat reported that one of the most important benefits he received was the realisation that there was a bigger reality beyond language.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Used scientific studies to clarify the issue

[The Dreamer]

Mr. Giraffe perhaps its this reality that you speak of that my cat recognized as 'God' because he didn't know what else to call it. Evidence of your 'too big for words' theory perhaps. Had he thought of another word he may have avoided negative feelings altogether. He now thinks it may be good to sit and describe this 'God' or 'reality' in his own words. Hopefully, this will give his mind the opportunity to avoid the default picture of the supreme alpha-male sex-hating bigot that he once worshiped.

[lostmente]

the pharmacratic inquisition movie is a pretty awesome take on this...at least from a relgion point of view

www.pharmacratic-inquisition.com

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...42553983229569

[The Dreamer]

LostMente you may have changed my life.

[lostmente]

I really got to pay more attention to the messages that come my way

[pistol pete]

man if swiy gets a little freaked out on too much salivia but hasnt done real psycedillics, id say jump in with some mushrooms or somthing. dont let salvia scare you out of it.
for one salvia isnt truely a hallucinogen. what it does is it takes away your ego right away. giving you the hard and scary end of real hallucinagens at high doeses.

with mushrooms or lsd or a tradtional psycedellic you can keep your ego and hallucinate at correct doeses.

and in that mind state it where swim is brought compeltely close to god.

the first time swim did mushrooms swim was depressed at the point in time, after swim came down from the mushrooms the way swim looked at life was so much more fond, and swims realtionship with god was much closer. swim's not saying anyone who does a drug liek this will get close to god through it. but if thats whats your searching for it really will help.

Thats the beauty of psychedelics, they strip you of your ego showing you who you really are and what life is really about. its truely a learning experience.
look at DMT example. they can give DMT to heroin addicts one time, and by the time their 10 to 20 minutes intense trip is over they will often quit herior no questions asked. it shows whats really important in life and where you really want, or need to be, no matter what your ego, or super ego try to tell you to protect you
hope this helped

[LsdWeedShrooms24]

Only you know this answer. you say your an athiest, but if you have any doubt, you prolly will find god. but if you truely believe he doesnt exist, you wont (SPOILER ALERT you'll find something better!!!) in my opinion.


you allready know the answer

LsdWeedShrooms24 added 3 Minutes and 19 Seconds later...

Also, that "driving force behind the universe" you mentioned. its you

Reputation Comments on this post:

I liked that.

[teddybearpicnics]

Swim had a friend, and we dosed on mushrooms, my friend swiJJ was SO fucked up and he didn't talk for like 5 hours, when he started to come down he was talking our ears off about how he is now the child of the christian god and how god talked to him and blah blah blah, he was athiest before..

He graduated high school, went to the bible institue of NY, and is now doing missionary work and is still the same bible thumper he was that night.

.teddy

[The Dreamer]

How does your bible-thumping friend feel about drug use? Does he admit that a mushroom trip caused his faith?

And no my cat was certainly not driven away from psychedelics by Sally. He's just broke right now and lacks the proper connections.

[tokerjoker]

for SWIM whenever he does weed, sometimes he gets into deep deep thought, He's a roman catholic and believes God exists and he also believes the devil exists, like it is said, the greatest of the devils wiles was to make us think he doesnt exist. However when SWIM gets stoned alone SWIM gets into deep thoughts sometimes, and feel such a great love for everyone and God. Its a welcome experience.

[Fat Cop]

What your cat is experienceing is spirituality. Its not totally unrelated to the bible, but is to any church. Psychedelics definitly promote spirituality and they can give one a very religious experience. They let you tap into the higher planes of existence before you have even made a conscious effort to do so. If you are interested in your new spiritual path than I would recommend meditation and the philosophies of buddhism and ancient egypt. Spirituality is a beautiful thing dude. The firsy step in spirituality is to realize that God is not seperate from you. Infact you are God. God is the ultimate and supreme reality. You are only begining to open your eyes.

If nothing else, seek experience to grant you wisdom. If you seek to persue spiritual knowledge, it will naturally come to you.

[FooManChoo]

Don't feel concerned or scared brother. Posing questions and then questions upon those questions is a key to the path of enlightenment. Sounds like you've started your own personal spiritual quest bro. Congratulations.

[Desertfox]

Psychedelics have allowed me to see how everything is connected through layers and layers of meaning. SWIM can see the reason things happen and why they play out the way they do. He can see the sacredness the physical world and see god has can reveal himself when you pay attention to the patterns.

[Burnt]

I think it can go either way. SWIM has had some experiences that convinced him there was some force out there tending the light at the end of the tunnel. Likewise SWIM has had some experiences that would make SWIM think all religion is bullshit because if you change one stupid little neurotransmitter you can induce a mystical experience. But it can go either way and it depends a lot on the nature of reality and whats really going on out there.

[emersonthecat]

I sorta understand what you mean. My cat, Emerson, grew up in a very abusive, psycho,church that many people consider a cult, but he still always had a strong belief in religion/god. However, since his experiences with psychedelics, and even just plain life experiences, he's realizing that there is definitely a driving force behind the universe. He definitely doesn't believe there is nothing spiritual. There is a fine balance between science and the spiritual aspects of the universe, he thinks. Does he believe in nothing? No...does he believe in god still necessarily, no, he isn't too sure if there is a god, or what "god" even is, but, he is convinced there is definitely a spiritual side to the universe, whether or not it is run by a being of some sort, not sure, but it's there.

[sandoz1943]

SWIM has had the "god" trip a few time and agrees this can be very disconcerting for someone who did not previously have any belief in god. SWIM never had any type of religious beliefs before. SWIM now has found that she does believe there is some creative force behind it all pushing and guiding you so that you are where you should be doing what you should be doing at the proper time. Her beliefs are her own and they work for her and that all they have to do. She recalls reading some where that the word church origionaly ment a gathering of people gathered to talk and worship god. Not a building full of strangers with one person speaking. She feels religion is something you come to on your own. You shouldn't need anyone to validate your beliefs. She suggest locating open minded friends that you can talk to without being judged. Why would anyone want to worship a god that would want you to sit and listen to someone else's interpertations and beliefs. She doesn't feel drugs added to or detracted from her beliefs. She believes what she believes because she believes it and knows in her heart and mind that it is good and true. She pictures god as a weaver. Weaving a beutiful tapestry. Some times drugs allow you to see the pattern. All life is a pattern. She hopes one day to be able to view the tapestry in it's whole. If you believe something and it brings you joy and makes you happy thats all it has to do.