Heroin for opiate addiction

[mickenator]

Swim is starting a pole to see how many opiate addicts would rather be perscribed heroin rather than methadone, suboxone ( subutex in the UK) or any other form of detox, please feel free to comment on swiy's experiences.

[kaloochi]

SWIM voted for subutex because it worked for him. It was on swims last release from prison over 4 years ago that he started taking subutex. He'd gone down that same road he always did on release [heroin, crack] and swim goes downhill fast. Swim can go from looking the picture of health to looking like a proper, skinny, dirty junkie in about 6 weeks. Anyways swim bought some subs and eventually got a script because he didn't want that life any more.

Swim really sorted his life out once scripted. As long as swim took that sub first thing he knew there was no point in having H and in time swim stopped thinking about it. Swims not CURED but his time on subutex got him out of the whole lifestyle and the thought of going back to what swim was when he was a hardcore user is anathema.

Reputation Comments on this post:

very interesting comment

[mickenator]

Glad to see your doing ok mate, are you still fighting strong and keeping those demons at bay.

[Woodman]

I voted "other" on the basis that all such addictions are not the same.

I would NOT be opposed to prescribing heroin if it was needed.

Drugs are for us to use responsibly. Sometimes it gets out of hand and people need help.

I see no reason to stigmatize them or deprive them. I think we have a greater HUMAN responsibility to HELP them.

[mickenator]

Maybe someone could start a thread for people to vote on about overall addiction and what there views are as regards to the sorts of treatment to be given.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good idea

[drug-bot]

swim is on methadone right now (alot cheaper than h), and its working fine, but swim would definetly prefer medically sponsored heroin maintaince, swim loves a good heroin rush (making swim salivate just thinking about it). if heroin maintaince existed it would be healthier than for the individual than the current illegal status,1 it would be alot cheaper,2 it would have known and standardized doses which would effectively eliminate od's. 3 no dangerous cuts. it would be as easily adaptable to everyday life as nicotine addiction is, and alot healthier than nicotine addiction.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Reasonable
	good personal expirence

[Lisa J]

Heroin is the only drug that completely removes SWIM'S physical pain, fentanyl & methadone come close but SWIM would rather use one drug that does the job than several together that still don't quite hit the mark.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	good comment on pain
	why dont physicians listen to this?

[UNIBLACK810]

Originally Posted by drug-bot

swim is on methadone right now (alot cheaper than h), and its working fine, but swim would definetly prefer medically sponsored heroin maintaince, swim loves a good heroin rush (making swim salivate just thinking about it). if heroin maintaince existed it would be healthier than for the individual than the current illegal status,1 it would be alot cheaper,2 it would have known and standardized doses which would effectively eliminate od's. 3 no dangerous cuts. it would be as easily adaptable to everyday life as nicotine addiction is, and alot healthier than nicotine addiction.

Not any rocket science related to this post but you have such a valid and great point. Now if we could only get ("The forces that be") to recognize this also, than maybe, just maybe we could get somewhere! LoL. Thanxs for the thought provocation. I'll add rep points. Later dude.

UNIBLACK810 added 30 Minutes and 22 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by kaloochi

SWIM voted for subutex because it worked for him. It was on swims last release from prison over 4 years ago that he started taking subutex. He'd gone down that same road he always did on release [heroin, crack] and swim goes downhill fast. Swim can go from looking the picture of health to looking like a proper, skinny, dirty junkie in about 6 weeks. Anyways swim bought some subs and eventually got a script because he didn't want that life any more.

Swim really sorted his life out once scripted. As long as swim took that sub first thing he knew there was no point in having H and in time swim stopped thinking about it. Swims not CURED but his time on subutex got him out of the whole lifestyle and the thought of going back to what swim was when he was a hardcore user is anathema.

Hey Kalooch! Havent heard from you in awhile (Kaloochi was my first freind here at this wonderful place! lol.) But anyways SWIM knows this exact same scenario all to well and has also been down this same road too many times to count. Swim's last prison stretch was 9 and a half years. However everytime before that Swim had found swim's self right back down that dope trail every single time swim was released. Most times within a half hour sometimes less after walking out of the prison from serving years. SWIM would leave the facility looking like(without exaggeration or vanity looking like a shorter version of the ROCK.) To 3,4 weeks later 110pds/ if that!) soaking wet with bricks in swim's pocket looking as if swim had been using for years. By the grace of God and a little will power and implementation of the people,places and things theory.Swim has been able to stay off the H since swim's release. Although swim has been dabbling with the pill thing now though it is not even nearly no where nearly like the crack and H. And swim has been able to keep his "ROCK" look maintained,hold down a household, purchase a brand new truck,get married and care for 3 children. 3 and a half years ago you could've payed swim a million bucks and swim still would've never,ever believed it possible. Sorry if this post is in the wrong place but swim just felt the need to share right now and did'nt feel swim could get the same point out if swim waited to find the correct forum. Thank you for reading this, and to get back on topic swim would take Dilaudid over anything! Yup.....even H!

[china cat]

swim is prescribed methadone and uses illicit heroin.

If he was prescribed heroin he wouldn't use illicit methadone.

A heroin prescription is the only thing that would enable swim to stop breaking the law to score.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good remark

[Spare Chaynge]

Swim see some excellent points. A hears heroin maintenance is more effective but the ball and chain to the clinic would be to high. swim would have to live right next to it. as he would be dosing as much as possible. swim has once been tied to the methadone clinic. Forget traveling. Swims clinic would never give any out except for Sunday.

The price of methadone and the negative social consequences it prevents are amazing.

[mickenator]

If heroin was perscribed to all heroin addicts then the cost of purchasing it for the pharmacies would come down aswell plus an addict would only need to go maybe twice a day at most. All that stops it being done is that Heroin is such a dirty word and has such a bad stigma attatched with it.

[frankz81]

i agree, when ur young and think of heroin, u think dirty, think of people od'ing and think of junkies with transformed facial features...

personally i dont think its anyworse than oc's if used the same way, both equally as dangerous but with the oc's u know what dose ur getting

for convenience the subutex or methadone would be the best as it requires 1 trip a day to the chemist as heroin is alot shorter acting and would prob require 2 visits. if u get a months supply at once, then yeah the heroin as ur going to be hooked on an opiate anyways, so why not enjoy?

Reputation Comments on this post:

rules

[beena]

SWIM has been prescribed methadone for a month and is currently on a dose of 40ml a day. At first the dose SWIM was on was far too low so she had to 'top up' with heroin to stay well, but she managed to stabilise on 40mls of methadone which she was quite pleased about because she knows other users/friends who have to take much higher doses just to stay well.
A couple of times recently SWIM relapsed with crack-cocaine and ended up using heroin again just to comedown. Because she used heroin she decided not to go and get her dose of methadone as well (she didn't want to double-dose I suppose). The next day though SWIM was really ill. The only thing she could put it down too was that she'd missed her methadone.
It seems to SWIM that although methadone works as a replacement for heroin, it doesn't work vice-versa.....in other words, once you are 'hooked' on the methadone you can't replace it with heroin. Instead you must take your dose of methadone as well of or instead of heroin.
This is not good because a lot of people will just end up with addictions to both substances.

[UNIBLACK810]

SWIM has been an opiate addict off and on for somewhat of roughly 15 yrs. Also Swim has been clean on a number of occasions.Longest time being approx. 2 1/2 yrs. Swim finds that heroin,(especially when Swim/or you gets Swim/you's hands on quality shit, is hands down the best euphoria one can ever experience on this shit hole of a planet we know casually as earth. Probably even outter space for that matter. Swim cannot even began to fathom the idea how anyone and swim means ANYONE could not LOVE this feeling. There is nothing ( well atleast SWIM always believed) and I mean nothing that could come the least bit close to this total bliss. However SWIM has found somthing else that has now become SWIM's new love for life.Although still an opiate SWIM find's it too be even better than H.SWIM's new love affair is Dilaudid. And even though SWIM had known of these for probably as long as SWIM has known of H, swim has only recently tried them for swim's self and they are absolutely amazing. These would be WITHOUT ? swim's choice over any and everything. HYdromorphone is absolutely fucking amazing and swim finds them even much more amazing than H and that's a big statment for SWIM,as SWIM thought it could NEVER,EVER be possible. So swim's choice would be most def. Dilaudid. They fucking RULE!

[nick23]

Swim was a poly drug abusing addict committing daily crime till he was rxed diamorphine,then he stopped using other drugs and committing crime.

Methadone and detox had failed abysmally for swim and most of his peers-many of whom are now dead.

An efficient treatment system offers as many choices as possible,from detox to diamorphine and beyond.

Swim understands why diamorphine is such a contentious issue,but would like to point out that dead addicts don't recover.

Reputation Comments on this post:

great points -- personal experience and explaining how that data could be extrapolated into a solution in general

[ex-junkie]

prescribing heroin wouldnt work as sweet as what everyone seems to think. you swimmers are forgetting about tolerance...

more will need to be consumed to achieve the same high, and doctors wont be in a hurry to increase dosages for fear of overdose. especially if it gets into the hands of the wrong people.

not everybody would be eligible to go onto heroin maintenance, it would be at doctors disgression basically, so people would still sell it on the blackmarket, and people would still be doing crime to score it. it would be of a higher quality than that on the street, so it would be more favourable to buyers on the blackmarket, and possibly more expensive.

free heroin wont take away the withdrawals and the fucked up life. it might keep people out of jail for awhile, and out of debt, but its far from a solid solution.

to think it could be a solution is just deluded.

Reputation Comments on this post:

excellent post on brining up the opposing view point/possible negatives

[chillinwill]

Originally Posted by ex-junkie

prescribing heroin wouldnt work as sweet as what everyone seems to think. you swimmers are forgetting about tolerance...

more will need to be consumed to achieve the same high, and doctors wont be in a hurry to increase dosages for fear of overdose. especially if it gets into the hands of the wrong people.

not everybody would be eligible to go onto heroin maintenance, it would be at doctors disgression basically, so people would still sell it on the blackmarket, and people would still be doing crime to score it. it would be of a higher quality than that on the street, so it would be more favourable to buyers on the blackmarket, and possibly more expensive.

free heroin wont take away the withdrawals and the fucked up life. it might keep people out of jail for awhile, and out of debt, but its far from a solid solution.

to think it could be a solution is just deluded.

There is a difference though between heroin maintenance and trying to obtain a high off heroin each time one does it. Red Rock has read several stories of people on here that just use heroin for maintenance purposes and have been on the same dose for quite some time now.

[OhCasey]

Originally Posted by chillinwill

There is a difference though between heroin maintenance and trying to obtain a high off heroin each time one does it. Red Rock has read several stories of people on here that just use heroin for maintenance purposes and have been on the same dose for quite some time now.

Herion is far from ideal for any opiate maintance especially if the goal is to get off of opiates and not just maintain a life long habit. Its generally considered harder to maintain on short acting drugs and even harder to taper shorter acting drugs especially benzos and opiates.

[nick23]

Originally Posted by OhCasey

Herion is far from ideal for any opiate maintance especially if the goal is to get off of opiates and not just maintain a life long habit. Its generally considered harder to maintain on short acting drugs and even harder to taper shorter acting drugs especially benzos and opiates.

Yes,but diamorphine is rxed in 2 scenarios.

1.Long term maintenance,where other treatment has failed.

2.As a short acting opiate at the tail end of methadone reduction-dihydrocodeine is also used for this.

[Junkhead23]

Pacman thinks that many would be better off on diamorphine than methadone. Also if pure diamorphine was prescribed it would not have to be IV'd it could be IM.

[nick23]

Originally Posted by Junkhead23

Pacman thinks that many would be better off on diamorphine than methadone. Also if pure diamorphine was prescribed it would not have to be IV'd it could be IM.

Smokes well too.

[Greenport]

Idk is this really a good idea? Heroin is a powerful, addictive opiate in itself and would likely be stronger than most opiates (well granted there are synthetic opiates muuuuch stronger) and trading one addiction for a more dangerous one isn't generally the right way to go in the ladder.

If swiM's unicorn did say morphine and wanted to taper off it, the unicorn might be tempted to lower the dosage slowly over a few days, then even switch it out for codeine after awhile to take it down a notch. Using heroin though sounds like a step in the wrong direction.

How about tryptamines? SwiM's unicorn has heard that in some places people consume hallucinogenic drugs to combat drug addiction. In some cases they have life-altering realizations and kick habits such as alcohol and addictive drugs (in fact LSD itself was studied for its potential use in curing alcohol addiction.)

In any case the unicorn wishes swiY all the willpower and strength he needs in kicking the addiction.

Reputation Comments on this post:

That would be the logical thought process.

[Junkhead23]

It is thought possible that methadone may actually be more damaging than heroin. The withdrawals are definitely worse.

Trading one addiction for another is exactly what they are doing when putting people on methadone

[OhCasey]

While I do think heroin would be better for some people in terms of managing a habit I cant see it being a very realistic option for most people who already have opiate addiction issues. Like everything in life theres no solution that works for 100 percent of people and I think Methadone isnt a very viable option in terms of curing addiction but that said short acting opiates are harder to keep at steady doses for most addicts. The fact that methadone produces less euphoria than H is something that addiction specialists consider a plus in terms of treating addiction. When it comes to trying to stop using altogether longer acting opiates seem to be a better option. If someone wants to taper from H or other short acting opioids because of methadones horrible withdrawals I can totally understand that but If you could taper down off of H why wouldnt someone just do that rather than going onto Methadone in the first place. Unless they couldnt control the H usage and used the methadone to lower the dose significantly. If getting clean isnt the goal and someone wants to maintain a lifelong habit then H would be my drug of choice too.

[beena]

This is a subject that has become very close to SWIM's heart recently. She has only been on methadone once (last summer), but that wasn't very successful for her and she chose to come off of it because she had relapsed with crack-cocaine, which in turn meant she relapsed with heroin (out of habit she used one to come down from the other), and so to continue taking methadone would've just meant increasing her intake of opiates instead of decreasing, which was the whole point of starting methadone treatment in the first place.
SWIM is quite a lucky drug-addict, I suppose, in that she has a fairly regular and reliable supply of morphine tablets in the form of MST, so on the days she can't get heroin she uses these to ward off the w/d. On three occasions SWIM has decided she wanted to stop using heroin and has used morphine to detox herself. Although she has since relapsed (on all three occasions) and at present is still using, she did for a while each time manage to successfully come off heroin this way.
All three times she switched from heroin to morphine she did so with relative speed and ease and she was able to come off all drugs (by tapering the morphine) within three weeks. Now, if she'd been committed to a methadone programme the minimum timescale she'd have been looking at to detox would've been somewhere between six months and one year. Now that's the minimum time: many addicts linger on methadone for years. There is even such a thing as the methadone maintenance programme where some hardcore addicts can, by choice admittedly, stay on methadone for years if not life.
SWIM believes in drug-treatment terms morphine or heroin treatment for drug addicts come out supreme next to the inefficacy of methadone. Furthermore, SWIM would go as far as to say that the government supports methadone treatment primarily because the user cannot get 'high' from taking it but this just makes a lot of addicts 'top up' with real heroin and/or linger on methadone for years.
Heroin treatment meanwhile (where a user is given a daily injection /dose of heroin and gradually brought off it) or morphine treatment (same idea but with morphine tablets), has proved more effective because the user doesn't need to 'top up' as they are being treated with their drug of choice anyway, only receiving a purer, safer, measured dose that can be monitored and reduced over time.
Trials, in Scotland I believe, of heroin and morphine treatment for addicts have thus-far proved very effective in not only maintaining addicts but actually getting them off drugs altogether.
Some long-term heroin addicts also get what is called 'needle fixation', which is when part of the addiction is to the actual process of injecting themselves (whacking up) heroin - methadone can't help with this but daily, safe injections administered by health-care professionals can.
Also, in terms of w/d, methadone is an addictive drug in itself and all methadone treatment does is transfer the user's addiction from heroin to methadone instead. People thing of methadone as a safe, harmless drug, but in fact the w/d from methadone is nastier than that from heroin. Whereas heroin w/d consists of severe w/d for about one week, followed by another week of lesser w/d, methadone w/d is severe for two weeks (double that of heroin) and is then followed by a further two weeks of less severe w/d. Methadone is a nasty drug to come off.
Why do we encourage heroin addicts to transfer their addictions to a drug that is gonna be even worse for them to come off in the long-run? Surely it would be better to treat an addict with the drug that they are addicted too in the first place but in a way where they are not criminalised, demoralised or put in harms way?