Combinations - Mescaline and Mushrooms....

[Dr. Awesome]

Swim just wanted me to let everyone know that he has finished about half of his Pedro tea and will be finishing it off in a few minutes. He's thinking that probably an hour to an hour and a half into it he'll eat his shrooms, hopefully by that point the tea will have settled in his stomach. Now... he needs to finish the tea

Dr. Awesome added 967 Minutes and 24 Seconds later...

Last night got pretty intense...

The San Pedro tea wasnt doing too much for swim. He was having pretty strong OEVs(patterns moving, surfaces morphing) but was only having weak CEVs that were nothing more that lights kind of moving around and none of the crazy vivid scenes in his head like he has had before with mescaline. About three hours into the trip(he waited longer than planned to see if the mescaline would get stronger or anything) he finally decided to eat the shrooms. About 15 minutes later he started noticing that shroom visual where things kind of have a double image that pulsates and flows and "shimmers". At this point he lie down on his couch in the dark with his iPod on and started watching the light coming in through his window hitting the wall and it started moving a lot, more than any OEV had ever moved before. It was kind of weirding him out but it was still cool. Eventually it got to the point where every single surface of everything he saw was continually changing and morphing and rotating in all sorts of shapes. Things would full on change, if he were looking at some words the letters would shrink, enlarge, twist, turn, unbend(an s would turn into an l), and completely disappear then reappear. He cant really remember the CEVs except that they were the most amazing beautiful geometric forms and shapes and patterns and colors all changing and flowing and being really intense. The downside was that he was extremely confused. Swim usually always knows that he's tripping and understands his environment but this time he kept trying to figure out what was from the shrooms and what was from the mescaline and why everything was doing what it was doing instead of just going with it, something he had to remind himself to do several times.

Basically, it was the most intense trip swim has ever had. The visuals were nothing like he had ever seen before. Aside from the confusion and getting annoyed with the shrooms later on(he didnt like what they were doing to music and the physical feeling) it was an awesome trip. Mescaline and mushrooms definitely combine and work together and potentiate each other. Swim also informed me he cant wait to try it again, except next time he wants the mescaline to be stronger and will take the shrooms sooner.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good post

[Geechee]

If SWIM was SWIY he he would have taken them both at once. Imagine how much more intense it would have been. Hell, Imagine how SWIM felt when he took shrooms and acid at the same time.

Sounds fun though except for where SWIY mentiond discomfort. That is usually easily fixed by just going with the flow and not trying to control everything. After all, SWIY (not specifically swiy) can't expect to take that amount and combo of substances and expect to maintain control.

[Richi]

Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome

Swim usually always knows that he's tripping and understands his environment but this time he kept trying to figure out what was from the shrooms and what was from the mescaline and why everything was doing what it was doing instead of just going with it, something he had to remind himself to do several times.

I wonder if it would really be possible to distinguish between what effects are caused by psilocin and what effects are caused by mescaline.

Both molecules have an affinity for the 5-HT2A serotonin receptor (and others), and would work synergistically.

[Lobsang]

I wonder if it would really be possible to distinguish between what effects are caused by psilocin and what effects are caused by mescaline.

Yes it definitely is. Mescaline has some very classic perceptual effects that others do not to that degree at all. Mescaline has a hall mark of producing form constants. Mescaline while similar to psilosin is very different. It acts much more on the vosual cortex. It produces geometry that the others do not to a degree close. Spirals are classic as well as other things. Look here.

The key hallucinogenic alkaloid in the San Pedro cactus is mescaline. Mescaline is unique among drugs in that its main action is a stimulant of the visual and visuo-psychic areas of the cortex (Kluver, 65). This lets the brain experience an altered state of consciousness. Mescaline is also found in many other cacti and succulents, including the well known Peyote cactus.
The largest part of the mescaline experience is experienced visually, through hallucinations. Most hallucinatory phenomena are usually variations of certain forms. These form constants are:

1. a) grating, lattice, fretwork, filigree, honeycomb, or chessboard;
2. b) cobweb;
3. c) tunnel, funnel, alley, cone or vessel;
4. d) spiral.

The fineness of the lines is often stressed. They are so thin that it is hard to say whether they are black or white. These form constants are also seen in other altered states. One observer has seen the same hallucinatory constants during four different childhood sicknesses. This has led him to conclude, "All the geometric forms and designs characteristic of mescaline-induced phenomena can, under proper conditions, be entopically observed" (Kluver, 65). Some of the form constants are also found in, "the visual phenomena of insulin hypoglycemia, and in phenomena induced by simply looking at disks with black, white, or colored sectors rotating at certain speeds" (Kluver, 65). These hallucinatory forms have also been reported from migraine attacks.

One author tries to account for the different form constants by referring to the various structures in the eye. He concludes from anatomical and observed data that,"the rods and foveal cones can look backwards and that the retinal pigment and the choriocapillary circulation can, therefore, be seen under certain conditions" (Kluver, 65). In essence, our hallucinations are views of looking backward at the retina, according to this theory. This would explain the prevalence of lines in mescaline hallucinations. Mescaline intoxication is a complicated and somewhat incomprehensible thing.

These accounts are taken from experiments done with Peyote in the 1920's. I am using these accounts on the assumption that the psychedelic mescaline experience will be fairly uniform, regardless of the plant used. It is important to understand that no written account can adequately describe the experience. The form constants experienced with mescaline intoxication overlap into the sensory sphere of experience.

A Professor Forster felt a net-like "cobweb" on his tongue. Another subject felt that his legs were spirals. For him, the spiral of his leg blended with another spiral that was rotating in the visual field. "One has the sensation of somatic and optic unity" (Kluver, 71). Lines are one of the most prevalent things seen while under the influence of mescaline. This is often seen as a "lattice" or "fretwork. A physician, Dr. Beringer was conducting an experiment involving mescaline. One of his subjects stated that:

He saw fretwork before his eyes, his arms, hands, and fingers turned into fretwork and that he became identical with the fretwork. There was no difference between the fretwork and himself, between inside and outside. All objects in the room and the walls changed into fretwork and thus became identical with him. While writing, the words turned into fretwork and there was, therefore, an identity of fretwork and handwriting. 'The fretwork is I.' In other people the "lattice", or "fretwork" became so dominant that it appeared to dominate the whole personality. All ideas turned into glass fretwork, which he saw, thought ,and felt. He also felt, saw, tasted, and smelled tones that became fretwork. He himself was the tone (Kluver, 72).

Weir Mitchell took an extract of one and one half Peyote buttons and he eventually saw: A white spear of grey stone grew up to huge height, and became a tall, richly furnished Gothic tower of very elaborate and definite design, with many rather worn statues standing in the doorways or on stone brackets. As I gazed every projecting angle, cornice, and even the face of the stones at their joinings were by degrees covered or hung with clusters of what seemed to be huge precious stones, but uncut. These were green, purple, red, and orange; never clear yellow and never blue. All seemed to possess interior light, and to give the faintest idea of the perfectly satisfying intensity and purity of these gorgeous colors is quite beyond my power.

As I looked, and it lasted long, the tower became of a fine mouse hue, and everywhere the vast pendant masses of emerald green, ruby red, and orange began to drip a slow rain of colors. Here were miles of rippled purple, half transparent and of ineffable beauty. Now and then soft golden clouds floated from these folds (Kluver, 16). This quote is from someone who had been injected with .2 gm of the sulfate of mescaline by physicians: A steel veil the meshes of which are constantly changing in size and form...beads in different colors...red, brownish, and violet threads running together in center...gold rain falling vertically... regular and irregular forms in iridescent colors resembling shells and sea urchins... transparent oriental rugs, but infinitely small...wallpaper designs...countless rugs with such magnificent hues and such singular brilliancy that I cannot even imagine them now...cobweb like figures or concentric circles and squares...the pyramid of the tower of a Gothic dome...


architectural forms, buttresses, rosettes, leafwork, fretwork, and circular patterns...modern cubistic patterns...gammadia forms from the points of which radiate innumerable lines in the forms of screws and spirals, in flashes and calm curves, a kaleidoscopic play of ornaments, patterns, crystals and prisms which creates the impression of a never-ending uniformity...hexagonal small honeycombs hung down from the ceiling...incessant play of
filigreed colors... in the face of B I saw a lattice of yellow-greenish horizontal stripes (Kluver, 17).

As our SWIMMER friend in his experience said in his post..

He cant really remember the CEVs except that they were the most amazing beautiful geometric forms and shapes and patterns and colors all changing and flowing and being really intense.

And of course the SWIMMER recognozed the classic shimmer of the mushrooms well.

About 15 minutes later he started noticing that shroom visual where things kind of have a double image that pulsates and flows and "shimmers".

So based on research done by others into mescaline. And SWIM's personal considerable experience with many things. SWIM would say that the different molecules can produce effects that are hall marks on to them selves.

Reputation Comments on this post:

great info ;)

[Richi]

Originally Posted by Lobsang

Mescaline has some very classic perceptual effects that others do not to that degree at all. Mescaline has a hall mark of producing form constants.

And of course the SWIMMER recognozed the classic shimmer of the mushrooms well.

So based on research done by others into mescaline. And SWIM's personal considerable experience with many things. SWIM would say that the different molecules can produce effects that are hall marks on to them selves.

Very interesting, thanks for the information.

Do you have the source for the first quote?


Having not experienced and illegal drugs myself and only speaking in terns of what I can imagine based on anecdotal evidence made available by others, I would suppose that some effects of this combination of drugs are distinguishable as evoked by one and not the other, while other effects are caused by a synergy of the two acting at the same time.

Namely;

Basically, it was the most intense trip swim has ever had. The visuals were nothing like he had ever seen before.

[Lobsang]

Do you have the source for the first quote?


http://www.biopark.org/peru/mescaline-healing.html

[podge]

Here we go....

19:30 - swim consumed 12 inch's of an Pedro cactus liquidized. Smokes a spliff for nausea.

22:00 - swim consumed 30 grams of fresh Stropharia Cubensis. Smoked a spliff for nausea.

23:00 - the mescaline was quietly seeping in as the mushrooms began to take effect.
This was an interesting experience, swim got very bare and minimal visuals for the whole experience, but swim was entered into a very revealing psychedelic world.

The journey was conducted alone, in darkness.

He found the the mushrooms were kept in check by the mescaline, as in the experience was very easy to navigate, no problems of any sort. But the experience was elusive, sometimes it would calm down to stage where it seemed to disappear and swim had to work to go deeper. While in meditation things certainly opened up and swim was able to explore and map out new territory so to speak with no discomfort or fear.

It was a very interesting combo, no visuals really but it gave way to a very consistent , manageable and informative experience. The experience had fizzled away by about 04:00 - 04:30 am and swim had no problem getting to sleep.

Overall a surprisingly easy and useful experience , they didnt synergise and blow swim out of the water as he had thought they might. Swim doesnt see much recreational value in the experience, its has value for personal exploration.

[Richi]

A foot of San Pedro and 30 grams fresh cubes - without visuals?

A high tolerance, perhaps?

[Dr. Awesome]

Swim always loves hearing about other's experiences because they can be so different. Of course things like dose, individual plant compositions, set and setting, etc all play a part but Podge's friend and my friend seemed to be in the same set/setting and had almost opposite experiences; Podge's friend had hardly any visuals but had a very rewarding psychonautic voyage, while my friend had extreme visuals but was too confused and mind-melted to make sense of hardly anything.

Also swim doesnt really get form constants from mescaline interestingly. His first time the CEV's he saw were those light blobs you get from staring at a light and then closing your eyes except they were colored and moving around and the OEV's were little wisps of steam coming from his phone and stuff. The next time he saw zig-zags that were bright neon colors but he was mostly seeing "visions" of snakes and aztecs. While with shrooms he has had very distinct form constants; while listening to the Any Colour You Like he saw colored lines slowly forming the tunnel shape with a little spinning fractal.

Thinking back on the things he was seeing in this last experiment(shrooms and mescaline) he can definitely tell how the two were combining into the crazy visuals he was seeing in his head. There were the zig-zags he gets from mescaline but the edges weren't straight lines, they were little fractals moving around. He was also seeing circular spinning fractals along with other stuff he cant even remember. He still cant get over the OEV's though, absolutely insane.

As far as the discomfort he felt it wasnt really that he was in pain or anything, it was that before he took the shrooms he was having a really great body high from the mescaline, probably it's strongest effect, and then he was having the weird shroom body high which in comparison wasnt all that great and it was more annoying than anything(he gets annoyed easily while on stuff).

The next time swim decides to do this he's going to take a stronger dose of mecaline and possibly even a smaller dose of shrooms. He'll have to do something different about when he takes each; either at the same time or take the shrooms right before he starts peaking on the mescaline. Swim also mentioned he might want to do this combo plus a morning glory extraction... that would really be the "flowery dream"

[podge]

Ya swim has been using mushrooms quite a bit recently,he waited about two weeks since his last trip though and he hasnt taken Mescaline in a long time. He thinks the mescaline may not have fully prepared as he expected a powerful experience like swiy had. But nonetheless , swim is very satisfied with the experience.

Swim would also opt for more mescaline if he were to try this again.

[Lobsang]

Originally Posted by podge

Ya swim has been using mushrooms quite a bit recently,he waited about two weeks since his last trip though and he hasnt taken Mescaline in a long time. He thinks the mescaline may not have fully prepared as he expected a powerful experience like swiy had. But nonetheless , swim is very satisfied with the experience.

Swim would also opt for more mescaline if he were to try this again.

Yes it is sometimes hard to get the dose of mescaline high enough using cactus. But it could be done. If SWIM can ever get mescaline that is extracted from cactus then that is possible the best. Or a lot of peyote and that is hard to get. The other thing is that the mescaline content of the cacti like san pedro is so variable. This is probably genetics mostly. If it was SWIM he would be trying to get into himself like 800mg or more of mescaline. He might try using like at least 4 ounces of dried san pedro. But it would be hard to know the dose do to variablity of the cacti.

SWIM does know that the san pedro he has used fresh is not so strong compared to peyote. One needs to eat a lot. A 12 inch fresh peice is not enough. Maybe 3 would be. And it is hard to ingest that much. I mane some native americans in "church" take 40 or more peyote buttons to get to where they want to be. So SWIM believes in high doses of mescaline. At least for SWIM. Because the full experience is wonderful and low doses for SWIM are a tease.