Effects - How likely is SWIY to harm someone else?

[missyelliott]

While under the influence of LSD, is SWIY more likely to harm someone else??

Swim asks because someone he spoke to recently was really agaisnt psychedelics because "it can make eveyone appear to be demons so you could kill them".

And swim watched a bit of fear and loathing in las vegas including the bit where jonny depp as nearly killed by the tripping other guy...

So, is someone more likely to hurt/kill someone on lsd than other drugs, like the wonderful drug alcohol??

cheers

[Heretic.Ape.]

A paranoid dangerous violent person should certainly not take ANY mind-altering substance. Maybe monkey is just a boring monkey but he's certainly never felt that he needed to hurt anything or anyone while tripping on any substance. Not to say other kooky animals wouldn't freak out and hurt someone though.

[shokora]

Though there always is a chance of 'violent behaviour' when tripping. The message of a trip is mostly 'love' and even if someone goes bad, violence is not often involved.

SWIM thinks this person you talked to is heavily influenced by anti-drug propaganda.

[TMM]

The dose required for the necessary dissociation from reality would be pretty high, and one is unlikely to react violently to the changes in their brian unless they are already a violent or instable person, in which case they shouldn't really be taking psychedelic drugs, as H.A. said above. It's more likely to make you paranoid and scared than aggressive and violent.

[jason41392]

From someone who is not I's (feel free to correct my grammar) expierience's, it's not likely to happen as long as someone who is not you is taking it in a responcible way, and not around people who would cause someone who is not you to have negative thoughts or feelings.

And as has been said above, if swiy is unstable emotionally, or of a violent type, it is probably best that they not take LSD to begin with.


Note: please forgive my spelling, I'm a bit tired.

[Panthers007]

That's like what they claimed about Charlie Manson: "LSD proves that anyone can become a dangerous psychopath from taking LSD!" Of course, being locked up in the California penal system and raped from the age of 9 didn't have anything to do with it. They were just trying to help him.

Most people Bongo knows couldn't even cut a pizza (it was breathing) when on LSD (or other psychedelic). Shulgin employed "The Rose-Test." You'd hand someone a rose. Shulgin included. And no one wanted to harm such a beautiful creature! The only substance that allowed Shulgin to destroy the rose - of a quasi-psychedelic nature - was 3,4,5-TMA. This drug was included in the Edgewood Arsenal inventory of potential chemical-weapons. As was LSD25. But further testing caused psychedelics to be largely abandoned. Attention was instead focused on anti-cholinergic deleriants such as BZ and the JB-series.

So the answer is no - LSD25 et al isn't going to make one attack people. Unless they are of such mind to begin with. Want a drug that turns one into a thug? Belly up to the bar, boys!

Reputation Comments on this post:

You're a very knowledgeable guy

[Lobsang]

While under the influence of LSD, is SWIY more likely to harm someone else??

It would not be likley unless a person had a natural tendency to do that normally. And if a person took enough acid to thave a full "psychotic break" then they most likley would be so dysfunctional they could not act. So no I do not think that acid is going to make the babysitter put the baby in the microwave because she thought it
was a ham. As the urban legand goes.

And swim watched a bit of fear and loathing in las vegas including the bit where jonny depp as nearly killed by the tripping other guy...

I don't know about the movie...But in the book I think a funny part is when the Samoan attorney is in the bathtub with a big knife under the water.

[Strangeness]

Originally Posted by missyelliott

So, is someone more likely to hurt/kill someone on lsd than other drugs, like the wonderful drug alcohol??

I'd say rather that the opposite is true, SWIM has yet to see any LSD-induced violence in his time... but has seen his share of alcohol-related incidents.

I know the thought of really going off the deep end and reaching that state where you no longer know what's going on or you've completely lost touch with 'normal' reality can be frightening. But if you reach such a state you're likely to be pretty physically incapacitated anyways so it would seem unlikely that you're going to go around stabbing people unconsciously as your mind takes a stroll through fairyland.

But that's not even something to worry about with the 'typical' range of experience intensities. Because typically you are at least going to have some idea of what's going on and some sense of "ok I shouldn't do that."

Just don't worry about it and enjoy the ride.

[Songcycle67]

SWIM:

Sasha Shulgin did an experiment with a variety of psychedelics, including LSD, in which he gave these substances to himself and a variety of other subjects and the idea was to give the person a rose and see if they could destroy it whilest under the influence of a given substance.

The only compound that made him and others destroy it was TMA (i'm not sure what this is but i don't think it's a psychedelic), and that was purely out of curiosity.

There's a pronounced sense of "fragility" and "oneness" in most people when they take it that I find it extremely difficult to believe that a trusted friend could hurt another friend.

It is, however, a widely known fact that Oscar Zeta Acosta (Dr. Gonzo from Fear And Loathing) was a violent man under the influence of LSD. In the preface to his book, The Autobiography Of A Brown Buffalo, Hunter Thompson wrote about the rage that would consume Oscar under the influence of LSD. Now you must remember that Oscar (Gonzo) had been taking all kinds of psychedelics (and other drugs) for almost a decade before he and Hunter met and therefore his tolerance was considerable. Also Oscar was infamous for mixing his drugs and drinking lots and lots of booze while tripping.

I'd say the other drugs, most specifically methamphetamine and booze, and his tolerance level are what enabled his rage. He had also had an extremely extremely hard life, surrounded by violence. Obviously anyone with this kind of set should seriously try to work out these problems before taking any psychoactive. They also took a lot of these drugs outside the context of proper setting, which definitely could lend itself to violent reactions.

It should be noted that methamphetamine (nor amphetamine) and booze whilest on psychedelics don't necessarily lend themselves to anger, especially for a first-timer.

[VitaminK22]

Swim has noticed that LSD can make him angry, but only when something or someone does something that pisses him off.
Swim was once at a party when a guy, that he didnt know, went completely mad and started smashin things up and threatening to stab people for no reason other than he couldnt handle acid. Swim felt a surge of anger build up and eventually, after the guy smashed a glass, swim couldnt hold it in and punched the guy twice, he fell down with a very scared look on his face. swim thought to himself afterwards that the guy could want revenge so swim and friends locked him in a room and we didnt see him again untill the morning. Not a very nice experience at all.
This made swim realise that he was able to control his anger and emotions while on lsd, cos if he couldnt, the guy would have woken up in the hospital. But some people just cant control themself when on lsd, swim still doesnt know whether or not that guy would hav actually done something dangerous

[brandonthegreat]

Panthers and songcycle,

where did Shulgin discuss this Rose Test? TiHKAL?

[Panthers007]

It was in Pihkal, in a chapter delving into his work-up with 3,4,5-TMA.

[Songcycle67]

i keep doing that crap. sorry panthers.

[deargdoom]

When on copious amounts of alcohol this guy I know gets very violent towards people he doesnt know and very protective of friends. Stoned or Salvia he is relaxed and in touch with the universe and does not see the point in violence. Although in saying that SWIM usually gets himself in such states on anything that his mates have nicknamed him the palm tree as he can do nothing but stand up and sway.