Drug info - Can the difference in trip be due to differences in LSD?

[Treebierd]

Recently my goldfish, Merl, took 3.5 hits of a new batch. While on his adventure, Merl started having a bad trip. Confusion set in and he couldn't figure out what was going on until a few beers were able to calm him down. This trip during the first 4 hours, was minimally visual compared to other trips where a similar dose was taken. Out of 6 other friends tripping, 4 had a bad trip. Merl started to think of the possibility of a batch of lucy being "bad". Also is it possible for differences in the chemical structure to change how visual a trip will be. I wouldnt imagine that being possible at first thought, but Merl has noticed that certain sheets have given different trips. For example, with one type Merl saw trees breathing and ants crawling on the ceiling each time, and others have given totally different hallucinations. If indeed Merl has different trips due to factors other than mindset, what would they be?

[Panthers007]

They would be pure speculation at this point. Unless the goldfish had bothered to run a few tests, before ingestion, no one can tell the goldfish what it may have been: LSD25 or, possibly, a DOx molecule.

[Lobsang]

Does not sound like LSD to SWIM. SWIM noticed some was stronger than others. But in general acid was acid.

[Treebierd]

Merl hasn't tried DOx and isn't sure if he wants to. From what I have read though DOx has a longer uptake period, 2+ hours, is this correct? Merl had a sneaking suspicion that the blotters could have been some type of 2C compound during testing day, but a few people Merl trusts discounted that theory. It seems hard to find any good information on DOx, what would be the full name to search for?

Treebierd added 1 Minutes and 38 Seconds later...

Panther... any easy tests Merl could run to see if the DOx theory were correct? I don't think we all have quite the chem expertise that you do.

[Jatelka]

Treebierd: I suggest UTFSE to find out about testing for DOx. It has been covered many times before

[Songcycle67]

To SWIM's knowledge there have been no scientific tests done to confirm any isomers which would be present in an impure (read: uncleaned) batch of LSD that are active at the same level. However there is much speculation about this topic, and many chemists insist that purity is important, and it is completely plausible that a relatively small amount of some leftover junk could block the proper receptors and alter the trip.

The general consensus among people who insist on purity is that the more pure the crystal, the more "magical" and encompassing the trip becomes. The purer the substance, the more it creates all the classic symptoms of LSD inebriation. Clearer thought patterns, clearer visuals and a less "speedy" high have been attributed to proper purity. Also many believe that purity effects dose; i.e. you don't need as much to get off on purer batches.

With that said, In SWIM's opinion if you get something that is at least 70%+ pure it should be the same as a dose of Sandoz. The vial that was opened for Hoffmann's 100th birthday was of a brownish color, indicating that Sandoz acid itself didn't approach the white, fluffy crystals that are circulated among the well-connected today. One of the main problems in the initial research of ergot alkaloids at Sandoz was in the use of chromatography (the machine which is used to analyze the substance and properly clean it), a fairly new procedure at the time. Now there are machines that go far beyond the capabilities of the early, essentially homemade chromatography setups that were in use by Sandoz and Czech labs.

Generally, I'd say it's a safe bet that the truth lies somewhere in between and for now I'd attribute bad experiences to low dose (as being stuck somewhere in the middle of two distinctly different realities can be extremely unsettling), set and setting, or a research chem.

Sounds like DOx to SWIM due to length of come-up and subtlety of visuals. 3.5 hits of even 50 ug (relatively unheard of except in more obscure areas where LSD is extremely hard to find) would give "a full blown psychedelic experience." The dosage range given for this kind of reaction is usually between 125-150 ug, though this is obviously dependent upon tolerance and body weight. Even the most unconnected of space cadets can find 100 ug hits; these days around that amount seems to be the minimum found on blotter and in crystal or liquid from the source. That leaves improper drying of blotter or improper laying of crystal/liquid in the tabs as the only other likely problem in running across pre-blotted doses that are this weak.

Sorry for the length.


Edit: SWIM: 2-ci is unlikely due to A) so little could fit on a small tab that it is sort of silly to press in this fashion, B) 2-ci trips are usually said to be more visual and more encompassing than even LSD.

There are only two ways to test for DOx, and one is based in experience. The first is if SWIY has tried both mescaline and LSD, seperately and at proper dose, before. If the trip felt more like a speedy, low dose mescaline experience than LSD, then DOx is most definitely a possible culprit. In SWIM's experience DOx tends to brighten colors, throw off halos, and distort space and time. In SWIM's opinion it also gives a distinct "dirty" body high. DOx, even DOM (STP), is basically a souped up form of speed. Most don't consider these drugs "psychedelic," in the classic sense, in their action. The other indicator would be in taste. DOx gives off a very bitter, very pronounced taste which is often described as a combination between "battery acid" and "the worst medicine you can imagine."

One must keep in mind, however, that the best we SWIMmers can do is to gather information from SWIY and make an approximation based on our own, completely subjective experiences. There are a lot of variables in play here.

[radiometer]

see this thread:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56103