Opinions - DMT solo?

[nEone]

SWIM's friend was very pleasantly surprised by the complete success of a Marsfold Tek Extraction. He followed the steps and didn't have any trouble.

He's interested in partaking but is concerned because he doesn't have a sitter around. He's pretty well versed in hallucinogens and if this were a mushroom trip or anything like that - he'd have no problem going solo into the darkness of night.

But because of the rapid onset ... he's a little concerned with the idea of trying out the results of his experiment on his own. He's not concerned with the headspace of a solo trip...but more with the likelihood of him flailing about or falling or otherwise getting himself into danger while under the influence.

SWIM's friend is considering starting with a low dose - 10mg say - and using a handheld lighter as his heat source. He'll be comfortably set up on a couch with glassware and table-corners well out of reach. Is it possible to ease into the experience (as much as one CAN ease into being rocketed into hyperspace?)

[Metomni]

SWIM has never smoked the substance, but would say it's a bad idea. If an experienced psychedelic user has to even question it then there is not only hesitancy, but the knowledge that it might turn bad if SWIY is alone.

Does SWIY have someone they trust enough to be around with them during this experience? SWIM reccomends just calling up a best friend and having them around just in case. SWIY will likely feel like they're alone either way, why not just take the best precaution?

Good luck sir.

[podge]

Good luck with it Neone. Swim hasnt tried DMT either , but is planning a solo Ayahuasca trip in the coming days so knows the worry. Swim thinks that if the dose is correct ( especially with smoked DMT )then i doubt swim will be very active or mobile during the experience. But it all depends on the swimmer i suppose....swim likes to lie down usually if he's tripping indoors.

If swiy does decide to go for it then swim would advise :

Inhale.....put the pipe somewhere where it cant ignite anything ( e.g steel container ) ..... lie down ..... exhale.... learn....

[Metomni]

SWIM has an issue with assuming a swimmer won't be mobile. When SWIM used to smoke salvia the thought was, "Let's lay in bed, lock the door, but everything that is sharp or breakable away, and we'll be good to go!" Then he had bad trips where the door wouldn't open and he thought he was trapped forever so he stopped locking the door. Then there were times where he'd snap back to reality and he would be lying on the ground outside or standing in the middle of the kitchen.

SWIM really doesn't recommend it, but do as SWIY thinks is right and report back here.

[nEone]

^^ that's his concern Metomni - Salvia never made him get up and move around. But some of his friends did. Since the duration/intensity seems to share things with Salvia...he wonders if other people have that kind of experience with DMT...he's read experience-reports, but hasn't ever heard of anyone flailing about or moving without meaning to...

[Salvinorin A]

Yeh, swim was never able to move on DMT, nor has he seen or read about anyone who could at a reasonable dosage.

As for salvia, the intensity is about the same (a little weaker probably); however, swiy may move around on Salvia, but probably won't know it.

If swiy gets to that point of complete inability to feel the body, swiy won't be moving.


SWIM has done most of his DMT trips solo, he wakes up in the exact same spot every time. Just stay away from sharp objects, like a reasonable distance. SWIY should be just fine.

Sal-A

[Metomni]

"If swiy gets to that point of complete inability to feel the body, swiy won't be moving."

In the salvia trips SWIM described, he got to that point of complete inability, and yet still wound up in the kitchen, right next to the knife collection even one time. Especially being SWIY's first time, they don't know how they will react, I think it's unsafe to say at a reasonable dose no one will move around, because that's simply not true. It might not be likely, but for a first venture, why not just get a sitter for SWIY?

[Salvinorin A]

Originally Posted by Metomni

"If swiy gets to that point of complete inability to feel the body, swiy won't be moving."

In the salvia trips SWIM described, he got to that point of complete inability, and yet still wound up in the kitchen, right next to the knife collection even one time. Especially being SWIY's first time, they don't know how they will react, I think it's unsafe to say at a reasonable dose no one will move around, because that's simply not true. It might not be likely, but for a first venture, why not just get a sitter for SWIY?

On DMT? hmmm, well, that is the first time swim has ever heard of that happening on DMT. Thanks for sharing.

SWIM still thinks that swiy should be fine, but doing it solo should be a last resort.

Sal-A

Btw, excellent tip 69Ron.

[69Ron]

I recommend starting with a low dose, like about 10 mg and working up. Beware, that there are cases were some unusual alkaloids get extracted from several DMT containing plants that are extremely potent at 10 mg. Many plants that contain DMT also contain 5-MeO-DMT, bufotenine, and other unusually potent alkaloids. Mimosa doesn't just contain DMT. It has several other alkaloids in it. You should read about "Jungle Spice" in mimosa. 10 mg of vaporized "Jungle Spice" will blow most people away. It's much stronger than DMT. Also, some plant extracted DMT is contaminated with 5-MeO-DMT or bufotenine. 5-MeO-DMT can be very frightening at 10 mg vaporized for some people. A 10 mg dose of vaporized bufotenine is also very strong. Also, I've read cases where pure DMT decomposed to something stronger, active at 2-10 mg. No one knows what it is.

Always test a new extract's potency at no higher than 10 mg before going higher. The DMT trip is over in about 15 minutes and you can do it again in 30 minutes at a higher dose.

SWIM never uses a sitter, but some people need to because they are idiots and take more than they can handle. You should only take as much as you can handle. If you take more than that you are risking your life and others around you. I've seen people lose control and pick of a knife while high and freaking out. Such people shouldn't be using drugs. If you think you might do something uncontrollable like that you should not use drugs or only use very small doses. I don't want to see anyone getting hurt. People need to be responsible for them selves. Don't rely on a sitter to baby sit you. A guy freaking out can suddenly become very strong, violent, and require several people to subdue him. If you lose control, pick of a knife and kill your sitter, then what? People that can't control their brains while under the influence of a particular drug shouldn't be using drugs. Play video games, go out to see a movie or something mentally safe like that.

DMT can make some people feel that they are possessed by evil spirits. If you get this type of effect you should not use DMT anymore. The last thing I want to see is my neighbor freaking out on DMT thinking he’s possessed by an evil spirit while shooting people with his hand gun through a crack in his window! This kind of this does happen. Some people just can’t control themselves even while drunk on alcohol.

Test the waters first. If you find it easy to handle at 10 mg, then try 20 mg. Don’t rush into trying 50 mg until you are ready. 50 mg is almost an overdose for some people, and can be a very light dose for other people. Everyone is different. For SWIM 10 mg is enough for good visual effects. 20 mg is very intense for SWIM. 40 mg and SWIM loses contact with reality. Some people need 100 mg for that.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Good post
	Good info

[nEone]

SWIM'S friend found a cohort for his initial foray...so all's well.

After his initial experimen, SWIM's friend will likely go solo most of the time...but for a first outing...yeah - the advice on this board is top notch and only confirms what SWIM has been telling his friend.

Many thanks.

Reports to come.

[Metomni]

Good to know it went well. SWIM awaits the stories.

[pyroarchy]

SWIM smokes it by herself all the time, BUT in low doses. SWIM should always have a experienced sitter on hand, who is educated in psychedelics and their influences on humans.

[nEone]

So - SWIM's friend has no idea how to smoke powders like this - so it's a good thing he found a buddy to help him understand the subtle nuances of swirling the pipe etc. He found that he was trying to hit the pipe way too early. And yeah, he also found the smoke to be pretty harsh on his non-smoker lungs.

They started off with 10mg's and that was enough to show them that it wasn't a placebo....this ain't Kanna we're talkin' about here...and then just at about the time where they were both very impressed with themselves....hey...it was over and they were back to normal...surprisingly back to normal. They weren't launched into hyperspace...no CEVs or OEVs - they just felt the potential and the duration.

With the headspace and tone of the experience now better established, SWIM's buddy is a little more comfortable with knowing what to expect, He'll probably keep his doses towards the 10mg level while he gets better at the art of smoking.

He's wondering if there have been any efforts to smooth out the smoke. He's read about mint leaves etc...so he might explore that. He liked being back to baseline so quickly...so he doesn't want to mix it with MJ or anything that has its own effects.

[69Ron]

10 mg is probably the best dose to get started with. It gives you an idea of the potential of DMT without getting lost in the experience.

DMT can be quite frightening at high doses even for experienced users. You'll often hear experienced users say that they feel a slight sense of fear right before even attempting to take a large dose because they know, once you go for it there's no turning back.

You don't hear about it often, but a DMT trip gone bad can be far worse than LSD because the hallucinations are more immersive. I've heard of some people having extreme hellish visions on DMT. One person had visions of being eaten alive by millions of strange tiny alien insects. It was so horrifying that the guy never did it again after that.

Most people, if they use DMT often enough, eventually have the bad trip of their life on DMT and can’t wait to get back to reality. Fortunately a bad trip only lasts 15-30 minutes, so whatever nightmare visions you might have are only going to be there for a few minutes. Just remember that its just like having a bad dream and that it will end in a few minutes.

SWIM finds DMT pretty forgiving usually. But every once in a while SWIM also has a bad trip on it, but only at high doses. Low to moderate doses are always positive experiences for SWIM.

One time many years ago SWIM had an out of body experience with oral DMT (mimosa hostilis and peganum harmala brewed into tea). He saw massive entities the size of planets. He visited the soul of the sun, earth, and many other planets. These entities were extremely intelligent and had power far beyond any human beings. The experience was a very positive one. The spirit of the sun was the most friendly of all. It was happy to see SWIM and he could feel an endless love emanating from it beyond anything he’s experienced before. It was an amazing experience and hard to put into words. Once he got back into his body, he was happy to be alive. He has a sense of renewed vigor for life.

But then a few days later, SWIM was smoking pure mimosa hostilis root bark in a bong. SWIM’s bark was very strong, and he got effects from it this way. After a few minutes of taking very large tokes, the room started melting, and became like a hideous nightmarish Van Gogh painting. Everything looked depressing, dark and extremely ugly. SWIM put down the bong immediately and felt as though he had somehow unleashed pure evil. He was fighting it and became engulfed in it. It’s hard to describe the feeling, it was as if a demon had gotten control of reality and was showing SWIM just how ugly life can be. Even the music playing became a horrifying mix of sounds, like those in a horror film. SWIM is not sure how he got such strong effects from smoking pure bark. It was very unexpected.

A few days later SWIM was smoking the same bark and experienced pure bliss. He had a short out of body experience where he saw what appeared to be God.

Most root bark isn’t that strong, but it occasionally is strong enough to smoke in a bong and get full blown effects. But you need to take very large hits and the bark needs to be in powder form. Start by using a very large pipe bowl full. When smoking it, let it smolder. Don’t torch the bark. Use the same bark over and over in the same bowl. This way the DMT builds up in the bottom of the bowl. After a while a very large hit is possible. The first hit won’t do much, but the 10th or 20th hit will because of the DMT build up that occurs at the bottom of the pip bowl.

I think those three experiences say it all. You can experience anything from pure bliss to pure evil from DMT. After all, all it’s doing is increasing your imagination to a point that anything is possible. So if you take a large dose, be prepared for a ride that will be unexpected. A large dose is never the same for SWIM.

Those trips are from over 15 years ago and are still very vivid in SWIM memory. After a few really bad trips SWIM stopped using DMT for about 10 years. Since then SWIM has only used pure DMT, mostly from psychotria viridis. The DMT from psychotria viridis is not as dark as the DMT from mimosa hostilis. SWIM feels that there’s something other than DMT in DMT extracted from mimosa hostilis. This could be the so called “Jungle Spice” present in mimosa hostilis causing it to be a darker experience.

[Metomni]

The problem is that when you completely dissociate you can't tell yourself that it's just a trip, that fact is completely gone at some point if it's immersive enough. Then, it doesn't feel like 10-15 minutes either, it feels like months at a time.

That's the part of salvia that SWIM was very offset by, and also the reason he never had motives to smoke DMT, but he wishes to try ayahuasca at least once in his lifetime.

[eastwood]

No need for a sitter on dmt in swiew opinion BUT that could be debatable depending on factors of experiance.When swiew does dmt solo he feels like the entitys are watching him.Swiew doesnt prefer to do it solo.

[69Ron]

Originally Posted by Metomni

The problem is that when you completely dissociate you can't tell yourself that it's just a trip, that fact is completely gone at some point if it's immersive enough.

Everyone is different.

Some people definitely agree with that. However, others don't. Personally, SWIM never 100% believes what he's seeing is real, no matter what the dose is. SWIM is always skeptical. Even right now. SWIM is not completely sure that reality is 100% real. SWIM thinks reality is all an illusion generated by God.

When SWIM has a bad trip, its unpleasant, but he doesn't believe the things he sees are real. For SWIM it’s just like watching a movie. A bad movie still sucks whether you believe it’s real or not. When SWIM is having a bad vision, he just wants to get it out of his head. He knows it’s not real. So SWIM tries hard to visualize something else and it usually works. It’s all about mind control.

If SWIY is concerned about bad trips, 5-HO-DMT is the way to go. SWIM thinks its almost impossible to have a bad trip on that. Its more visual than DMT but you stay grounded during the trip.

During a really intense visionary state, some people can get lost in it and believe it is really happening. But this doesn’t happen to everyone. If you read any of the DMT tests performed by Timothy Leary, there were individuals that could take extremely massive doses and remain in complete control at all times. Timothy Leary was one such person. He had incredible mind control. SWIMs brother is also like that. No matter how much LSD or DMT, he's always in complete control. However, SWIM's sister loses complete control even at low doses. She's the type that very easily freaks out because she starts to believe the visions she sees are real, no matter how often she does it, she gets lost in the experience every time.

[Calaquendi]

Cool thread friends...this will almost certainly be a perennially debated and like, passionately contested area. The main reason i think is that everyone has different ideas of what is "safe"...'is this ok in bla-bla mgs.?' Or-should I stick this compound up my ass?? Or, 'i saw a dude smoke c-3po and set his ferret on fire'..etc.
I mean no harm in these puns, i merely use them to illustrate the like, vast differences even 'likeminded' folx can -and do- interpret when it comes to powerful MEDICINE...feel me?
Swim's been swimming quite a long time.and in different waters with different peepol an all that. The main thang here imo is IF there is ANY QUESTION about (what u perceive as)SAFETY, just like...don't ignore it.
See friends, swim likes to smoke DMT alone...alot. but also likes to enjoy it in good company. TRUST is paramount. whenever one plans on working with a previously unexplored product, dunnit make like, gool ole common sense to uh..have thy SET an SETTING all nice prior to the imbibing of said product?
Look~ im really not a wise-ass its just that real recently Swim Swims'self had to be "looked after" by 2 other wasted grownups and swim (thought)did everything right. one parting shot here: swim loves to smoke DMT by swimsself but it takes practice to get the whole 'dance' in step..just don't set your sheets on fire leaning over a melty candle as u loll away in ninety diff't directions at once. because that's prolly the biggest danger of smoking alone...at least for some peeepol. swiy may need a pal to take the pipe from them in the hopefully likely event that swiy is oblivious to things like 'pipes' as they slip aaawaay. thanx for the chance to communicate. Bog bless you all!!

[yosepi]

Originally Posted by 69Ron

DMT can be quite frightening at high doses even for experienced users. You'll often hear experienced users say that they feel a slight sense of fear right before even attempting to take a large dose because they know, once you go for it there's no turning back.

You don't hear about it often, but a DMT trip gone bad can be far worse than LSD because the hallucinations are more immersive. I've heard of some people having extreme hellish visions on DMT. One person had visions of being eaten alive by millions of strange tiny alien insects. It was so horrifying that the guy never did it again after that.

Most people, if they use DMT often enough, eventually have the bad trip of their life on DMT and can’t wait to get back to reality. Fortunately a bad trip only lasts 15-30 minutes, so whatever nightmare visions you might have are only going to be there for a few minutes. Just remember that its just like having a bad dream and that it will end in a few minutes.

high does nightmare trips are the trips my friend strives for. if he can get a breakthrough strong enough to push "them" into having to try to give me the illusion of harming him, it means he's getting their attention.

high dose dmt trips mixed with hundreds of trips under the belt can become very intense. they don't like it when you make them come into your dimension.

if you control them, you control yourself. get my drift?

don't let people fool you into thinking you're not the only one alive, you are alone in your reality and you exist because of mine.

my two cents on high dose.

[yumfatbig1]

Swim had his first DMT experience a few days ago. It was a gift and sat on the shelf for some time. Swim was a little wary of it because of what swim had heard. Swim has not taken any psychedelics for a long time but is well used to very large quantities, like 200 psylocybin semilantea mushrooms for example. Swim usually has extremely odd things take place. In the aformentioned trip, the television was turned on and Louis Mountbatten had just been blown to pieces, stuff like that.

I digress, swim used to take very strong acid and go spend the day in the V and A museum as an excerise in mastery. Swim is also obsessed with time, this is most pronounced with cocaine. Anyway swim had what was meant to be 5 large doses of DMT, it was put in a bong on a bed of ash and lit. Swim's gf was watching over as swim really didn't know what to expect.

Swim ingested a very large amount of smoke and held it as long as possible. After about 15 seconds it was apparent that this was going to be very very strong. Swim was able to hit the stopwatch at this point and it felt like the DMT was battling with my will to analyse the experience.

Swim has had incredibly intense acid and mushroom trips but nothing like this. At first there was pixelation as happens with acid but this soon simplified down to very basic shapes. Swims first reaction was "this is incredibly beautiful" swim always thinks of picasso in these situations and how he deconstructed reality.

Everything completely disolved and I'm told that swim's gf laid swim down on the beanbag because swim was just standing there stunned. Swims mouth was apparently contorted into a shape that swim was told appears to be impossible to reproduce.

Anyway swim's experience was very joyous as all the DMT did was confirm what swim already understands about the nature of reality, that is, all there is is existence, cit, Brahma, call it what you will. Everything (including time and space) is just a manifestation of existence. This appeared to be confirmed with the DMT, so it was very satisfying.

During the trip, it was apparent that life and death, are just aspects of the same thing, but swim did get one very valuable insight and that was "you don't have to die to know death". And that knowledge of what is, is the only thing that frees. That's what moksa is. Knowledge. And in knowledge once can rest because that's all there is. So far from being frightentening the DMT trip and the subsequent ones as well were just knowledge affirming. DMT showed me nothing new but confirmed what was already known.

Swim hears all sort of strange pixie stories and aliens talking stuff but swim thinks this is just a manifestation of the users own grappling with what the DMT is showing. Swim has come to the conclusion that any psychedelic experience will not give one freedom. Freedom is only in knowledge of what is. Nothing else will free one. Swim thinks that if once searches for knowledge in a psychedelic experience that it just becomes another experience that doesn't really have anything of true value to offer. True value being the freedom that all humans seek.

Sorry, I've gone off on a bit of a rant.

[cra$h]

if you're not sure you can fly solo, just have a friend distracted, but aware you're going to get mindfucked, so it's like they're not even there. if they say you just layed there, staring, then it might be time to go solo.

[tinytom]

swim dosent belive in telling yourself anything.

especially in hyperspace what you see is what is happining you cannot just ignore it or change it.

[yosepi]

Originally Posted by tinytom

swim dosent belive in telling yourself anything.

especially in hyperspace what you see is what is happining you cannot just ignore it or change it.

yeah, Buddhist Llama Tendo says, "Never believe your own Bullshit."

maybe you think i meant otherwise? all i was saying was, control your environment, control yourself. if it gets too much shift your body and make your motions, open your fucking eyes.

but never let them overpower you.

[Metomni]

But then a few days later, SWIM was smoking pure mimosa hostilis root bark in a bong. SWIM’s bark was very strong, and he got effects from it this way. After a few minutes of taking very large tokes, the room started melting, and became like a hideous nightmarish Van Gogh painting. Everything looked depressing, dark and extremely ugly. SWIM put down the bong immediately and felt as though he had somehow unleashed pure evil. He was fighting it and became engulfed in it. It’s hard to describe the feeling, it was as if a demon had gotten control of reality and was showing SWIM just how ugly life can be. Even the music playing became a horrifying mix of sounds, like those in a horror film. SWIM is not sure how he got such strong effects from smoking pure bark. It was very unexpected.

So SWIM has what appears to be 12 grams of powdered bark. It is the consistency of...SWIM supposes hot chocolate mix would be a fairly accurate description. It smells unlike anything SWIM has smelled before though, a very intense, though not totally bad smell.

The person who gave it to him said it was dmt powder from a type of leaf though. SWIM is unsure of what his dmt powder has originated from. For this reason he is very very wary to be ingesting it with rue due to the possible harmful side effects. With that said though, he is also wary of smoking it due to the intense nature of the trip. He really wants to experience ayahuasca but feels this is not the stuff to do it with because of it's unknown origins. He feels he can handle smoking it though.

That's why this was pretty interesting to SWIM. He was going to attempt to extract the dmt from it and smoke that, but he thinks he would much rather smoke the powder instead, it will be easier, and the possibility of messing up his yield will not be there.

Are there any dmt powders that wouldn't be safe to smoke by themselves? What would SWIY say is a safe starting dose? SWIM has no problem starting very low, but a "bowl" is fairly vague. If SWIM is not ingesting an MAOI with the experience does he still need to be wary of his diet prior to the journey?

Sorry for all the questions and thanks for any answers provided.

[Calaquendi]

[quote=Metomni;467268]So SWIM has what appears to be 12 grams of powdered bark. It is the consistency of...SWIM supposes hot chocolate mix would be a fairly accurate description. It smells unlike anything SWIM has smelled before though, a very intense, though not totally bad smell.

The person who gave it to him said it was dmt powder from a type of leaf though. SWIM is unsure of what his dmt powder has originated from. For this reason he is very very wary to be ingesting it with rue due to the possible harmful side effects. With that said though, he is also wary of smoking it due to the intense nature of the trip. He really wants to experience ayahuasca but feels this is not the stuff to do it with because of it's unknown origins. He feels he can handle smoking it though.

Ahoy! good questions..perhaps swim may be of assistance?
First off~what color is this 'powder'? from the brief description it sounds like mimosa hostilis could be a candidate. this is what u want. but refer back to your source for the origins of this mystery stuff. mimosa is a root-bark,not a leaf and often comes in a powdered form (very much like hot chocolate)..really fine and talcy. it will be a fine pinkish brown, perhaps a bit purple..earthy smell,most folx dont smoke the powdered plant- stuff because its horribly nasty and often fruitless to do so. IMO an extraction is absolutely necessary to achieve any real results. but 12 grams is not enough in any case to do this, swiy would likely not have enough plant material. there ARE pure plant concotions of DMT which produce activity when smoked but most of what's used or seen amongst our kind is the extacted free base. this is recommended for it's purity and ease of dosing measurements. Consistency is a big reason extacted materials are favored over 'just plants'.
As for questions concerning MAOI's: ayahuasca ,by definition, IS an MAO inhibitor and unless one is currently on certain medications (for depression or bipolar disorder,etc) there is very little risk involved. adhereing to a strict diet is usually not needed as it's wise to fast before such a journey for many reasons. a fast will eliminate any lingering doubts one might have as to which foods are 'safe' or not.
syrian-rue and any combination of DMT containing alkaloids is typically referred to as an "ayahuasca-analogue" in that the vine itself IS ayahuasca and not present in the case of analogous substitutions. these 'analogues' are very popular, especially in places where any of the other ingredients aren't available...and they work very well if used properly.
If swiy has doubts as to the authenticity of their material it always helps to know the vendor or individuals involved in aquisition. Good luck and take care!

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks :) Much appreciated as this experience will be swim's first journey with it