Insight With Just Pot!

[Inferno13]

Alright, looking back on this I'm not too sure if this is such a big thing but he thought it would be something interesting to post on.


So I and my best friend were sitting in their car after making our normal weekend round of hot boxing and then getting some tasty Wendy's. As I was sitting in his car he began talking with my friend and asked him what he thought the best experience of his life was. He pondered the question and then proceeded to deliberate. After stating his best experience he asked me what my best experience of life was. I told him mine and finished then sat back thinking of our conversation.


So after sitting for a few minutes I torpidly turned to my friend and said, "I think my experience is better than yours." Myfriend, immediately thinking the opposite. We compared reasons as to why we thought each of their own was the better experience. Then Isat still for a second and said, "Wait, your experience is the best for you, the top, the most prolific and profound experience. As is mine. We will never forget these experiences nor will we ever really know the true impact they had on our lives. So in a way...they are the same. We are completely equal when you consider those things. They are the same in the fact that they both had the same affect on us. We consider each of our experiences to be the best for us so really, they are infinate and thus, completely equal.".....


To this day, I remember that situation. I can't figure out if I actually had the deep understanding of the moment or if I merely forgot that I actually was aware of our "revelation" prior to our conversation. All the same, I thought that you guys would be a little interested in it. Replies of similar experiences would be pretty cool.

[brooklyn718]

Pot can make you have real insights, thats not real insight in my opinion, it might have been a moment of mutual understanding. Pot causes Ego-Death and psyhedelic states if you know how to experiance its effets in the proper way. read about ego-death its inreadible and scary, true insight an be gained from these experiances, not about trivial things like peak experiances, or atleast peak experiance will seem trivial after an intense Ego-Death experiance

[GDxCAT]

i find marijuana to be one of the best drugs for personal insight.


After getting stoned i am able to almost step outside of myself and review my life, my decisions, goals etc. After reviewing i try to keep the insights that i made untill fully sober again and then i try to make the changes i see fit in my life. Marijuana is a god sent plant with many use full benefits.


Fuck our governemnt for trying to take it away from us.

[Inferno13]

Brooklyn you don't think it's insight? I apologize, I'm a little new to the whole psychological realm of drugs. But after that experience ive never looked at situations the same and it gave me a completely new understanding of other people's personal situations. Like a more concentrated form of "standing in their shoes" and seeing things from their perspective. I think that's what I failed to convey in my previous post. It changed the way i feel sober. So wouldn't that be insight? Much like GDxCAT's experiences affect him post-alteration...

[GDxCAT]

inferno, pot is definitly a drug that gives deep insight into yourself
and the world around you. It is just like any psychedelic and will open
doors in your mind that were previously closed (except when u were a
child, in my opnion).

I believe what brooklyn is saying pot does give insight but once you
experience ego death (i hae never acheived this on marijuana alone,
only more powerful psychedelics) that way you view yourself and the
world will have a much more dramatic change than what pot causes alone.

[Inferno13]

I'm not sure that I have ever acheived ego death. How do you know
when you've reached it? Because before I started using drugs I
was not what one would consider a good or morally just person.
Very rude, high strung, mean, and insulting person (basically an
asshole) who didn't ever demonstrate any kind of restraint. But
after I began using drugs I started to relax and become a more open
minded and accepting person. But I don't know if this is a result
of just mellowing out or something different. Since the day I
took a toke everything has changed for me. I look at the world
completely different and have a new found respect for things in
general. Almost like Huxley's experience in The Doors of
Perception. Except I just realized things for myself outside of
alteration. Whereas Huxley did the opposite (obviously).
But I still don't know if I've acheived ego death. Maybe just a
mild drug induced personality change? Or change in perception?

[GDxCAT]

i think ull know when u achieve ego death.

it feels like dieing. And once you've died you are no longer you (your
ego has died). You becomee one with everything (trees, god other ppl).
You cant tell where u begin and and where someone else ends. You are
ONE.

at the end of an ego death experience you feel as if you are being born again.

In my experience with ego death (induced by mushrooms) i couldnt even
communicate with others because in my mind i didnt exist. I didnt know
my name and when i started coming down i felt like a baby who had to
learn everything again.



Its very hard to describe ego death but when u experience it u will know. It is beyond a spiritual experience.



I can talk about it all day without even coming close to describing it so i will stop now.

I hope u get to experience it one day. (the only methods i know of to
obtain that state is through psycghedelics and meditation.)



ps. it is a completely blissful experience (once u get over the extreme fear that u feel as u are dieing)

[29skidoo]

The dissolution of ego is a wonderful thing when it happens. However, I
find that such knowledge can be somewhat of a liability when having to
deal with the vast majority of humans who continue to believe in the Truth</span> and Sanctity</span> of their own pathetic identities and ludicrous social hierarchies.



It makes the normally conscious</span> world seem like such an intensely dishonest place.



It is thus no wonder to me why the controlling order</span> is so terrified of psychedelics. When everyone's ego dies, they</span> cease to exist!

[Inferno13]

Well see I don't know if I'd call it "ego death" though...especially if you take into account Freud's Personality Structure in which the ego is directly afftected by the Id and the Superego. The Id is pleasure driven and controls the most basic and instinctual functions of a person whereas the Superego applies society-learned attributes to the ego and the ego must balance out the two and the balance between the two is what the Ego displays. So really, since the Superego is what is affected by society and parental controls, and is involved in evaluating acceptable behavior, then wouldn't it technically be Superego death?


The only thing that really comes close to "Ego death" is when the Id or the Superego is about to overwhelm the Ego. At this point in time, the Ego displays defense mechanisms which causes anxiety in a person. So really, could "ego death" be self-induced? When the Ego is overwhlemed it distorts a person's thoughtsand perception of reality. So could that then be a natural high? Self-induced hallucinations?


I'm curious about this. Does anyone have any opinions?Edited by: Inferno13

[brooklyn718]

Interesting thought, they say a persons personality is the direct conflict between there concious mind and there ego, IE there always fighting there ego. During ego death your ego gies up, and goes away, its like losing a parent that you have known all your life but argued with, when its gone your in pain and greif because you wish you never took granted of it. It is a very difficult and painful experiance. I have reached it on pot, I belive it is more intense with pot because with THC you are much more concious than when on high doses of mushrooms etc. This can be forced upon a pot smoker after long term abuse of the weed (like me), and will further hange the character of that persons highs for good. It is like experiancing the loss of a loved one but 10X more intense what yo learn form the experiance comes at the end of the trip, you realize your sober mind is great!! that the sober mind does such a good job hiding you from these terrible ideas and truths that exist deep down. these are just afew of the "being reborn" revelations after an ego death experiance.

[Inferno13]

But i still don't know if it's necessarily ego death as much as it is "superego death". The theory that pot keeps you closer to reality so that the "death" is more signifigant makes sense to me but i still don't know if it would necessarily be your ego dying. And what about the natural highs that occur when your superego or your id begin to overwhelm your ego?doyouthink that these highs are somewhat like the highs that Aldous Huxley describes in Heaven and Hell? If so, do you think that that could be a new means of opening doors to different parts of yourself? It can happen with psychedelics (in which you body and/or mind are pushed to the edge) what if your body/mind was pushed to the edge through natural causes? Or would this be more of a nervous breakdown? So many questions...any ideas anyone?

[Inferno13]

PS: an interesting little tid bit that i thought was kinda cool. Your brain actually has a neurotransmitter reception site especially for the THC molecule. Just thought it was kinda cool. Like your brain actually expects THC and has evolved a receptor site for pot haha...

[hazeinmybong2]

Inferno, pot definately can be used for self-exploration. I have eaten a gram a good hash and had a psychadelic experiance. I wouldn't call it ego death though. When you have ego death, yourmind feels dead because your ego has become a seperate entity. It like your mind detaches itself and takes a good look at your ego and you can conciously change it. I like to think of my ego as a peice of artwork in progress; halucinagens are my paints.

[Inferno13]

I guess what I'm trying to say is not so much whether or not "ego death" can be acheived with pot. From what I've heard from you guys, I believe that you can acheive "ego death" wiith many different kinds of drugs. With that said, here are my questions that I pose to the rest of this forum (as well as myself):


1. Is ego death really ego death? OR is it really "superego death"? My theory is that it's really the change or dying of your superego (if superego death is even possible because without it, your Id would have total control and you would be strictly pleasure driven and would revert to basic instinctual behaviors).


2. Could overwhelming your ego cause a new type of naturally-induced highs? Or would it be more of a mental/nervous break down?(For more info on this read my above posts).


3. And would this kind of natural high produce "ego (or superego as i see it) death"?


4. Could these new kinds of highs be similar to the ones that Huxley was searching for in Heaven and Hell?


If anyone would like me to postmore information about any of these questions (Id, Ego, Superego, Freudian psychology in general, anything on the Huxley texts mentioned above, or have any questions about the background of my questions, let me know and I'd be happy to post about them).

[hazeinmybong2]

I understand what you are asking, are we really just "killing"/ignoring the standards and morals imposed by society. I have felt this sort of ego death but it was induced more by the lack of a drug I was dependant on as opposed to inebreation. I would do anything no matter how taboo to get it. When you kill your own ego, you are just giving yourself a chance to analyze your ownmorals and standards from a third party perspective.


In meditation, with practice,you can re-enter any state of mind you have previously experienced. I like to put cues into my trips. I always rub my hands together when I roll. So if I turn on some loud music do a little dance then sit down, rub my hands together, partially close my eyes(make a rollin face), I can pretend for a few minutes that i am rollin. Try it.

[Alfa]

1. ego death is death of all three. It leaves nothing behind. It is interesting that you say this, as in my personal experience, before the stage of ego-death, anenhanced instinctive mode is generally present.


2. it causes bad trips. I do not believe overwhelming is what happens, it is more a ego disolvetion.


3. When you do this naturally, by meditation, magick, yoga or by natural ability this does create natural highs.


4. ultimately yes. But they are not singular, there are different flavors of the same thing. You can have such an experience while looking out the window for a split second and then dismiss the thought( I know it's not a thought, but you catch my drift), while another ego death experience may be so intense that you'll never forget.Edited by: Alfa

[Inferno13]

In response to your response to question two, Psychoanalytical studies have proven that under great distress or feeling of being overwhelmed by the Id and/or Superego, the Ego's natural defenses cause anxiety, hallucinations, and distortions in perception. So I'm not sure if it would be a dissolving of the Ego. I think if anything, what the last two posts are suggesting (if I'm getting this all right) is that the basic idea is that all three are affected? So in that case, do you think it's along the lines of personality rebirth? Or a personality expansion? Perhaps it's not so much an ego death as it is almost an ego "reformatting"? (or another word not so layman-esque?) It doesn't seem so much of a death as a rebirth to me. It seems like you look at the world (and yourself) as one much as an infant would. So do you think that maybe it would be a personality rebirth? Or something else...any ideas?


PS: Bong, it's interesting you should mention that. I used to be very interested in different forms of Buddhism. After reading Heaven and Hell I was immediately interested in combining the two sources to see what I could come up with. The feeling was phenominal. It didn't last long but rather it would come in waves almost. Kind of like a rushing feeling (almost like Adeal but not quite the same...not as tingly) but I have yet to acheive that again. Something I've actually been striving for lately. Edited by: Inferno13

[brooklyn718]

Thats also interesting (about death rebirth) A true ego death experiance is probably due to the states acheived by meditation, and the less pronounced ego death experiances possibly are from the stronger hllucinogens because when the experiance is over and you have months to analize what happened, thedeal is that you were hallucinating at the time so it doesnt seem as real long term. I have not experianced a completely sober ego death from meditation so I cannot describe this. I would also belive that natural highs are not attributed to ego death, as ego death is momentarily very negative, these natural high states are said to be acheived with meditation are likely seperate and more "recreational" than ego death route.


PS: anxiety is definatly there, full force. Hallucinations, yes, but mental only. Distortions in perception, definatly, but not visualy only mentally.< id=kpfLog style="DISPLAY: none" src="http://127.0.0.1:44501/pl.?START_LOG" onload=destroy(this)>
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Edited by: brooklyn718

[Inferno13]

Well from what I've read here then, ego death does not sound so much like the death of your ego as it is the rebirth or realization of who you are. I suppose the closest thing that I could come up with would be to call ego death superego death. Because it is obvious that your ego is not dying. It is the mediator, the link, the connection to the superego and the id. It cannot die otherwise a personality would not exist. The id and the superego would have free reign. It would be impossible because the id would make a person strive for things strictly based on the reward and the amount of pleasure received from the behavior. Then the superego would try to influence a person soley based on what they have learned from society andwhat they consider morally just. As you can see, without the mediator in the middle to balance the two, a person's personality would no longer exist............................................. .......


With that said though I wonder...would this meld the two then? Combining the two performing strictly moral and socially acceptablebehaviors that, at the same time,give a person extreme pleasure. Could this like a new type of awareness? Or a new state of being? A new type of person? Almost like Nietzsche's overman or superman? Would that be like nirvana that Zen buddshists search for?This all seems kinda far out but I'm very curious with the connections here. This is all very hard to put down into words but I think you guys get the idea. Any comments or opinions? If you want me to explain myself better let me know.

[GDxCAT]

Originally Posted by Inferno13

With that said though I wonder...would this meld the two then?
Combining the two performing strictly moral and socially
acceptablebehaviors that, at the same time,give a person
extreme pleasure. Could this like a new type of awareness?
Or a new state of being? A new type of person? Almost like
Nietzsche's overman or superman? Would that be like nirvana that
Zen buddshists search for?

that pretty much sums it up

[Hyperreal]

Originally Posted by Inferno13

It cannot die otherwise a personality would not exist. The id and the superego would have free reign. It would be impossible because the id would make a person strive for things strictly based on the reward and the amount of pleasure received from the behavior. Then the superego would try to influence a person soley based on what they have learned from society andwhat they consider morally just. As you can see, without the mediator in the middle to balance the two, a person's personality would no longer exist.................

Ego death does indeed involve the death of the personality. Those who advocate ego death (myself included) would argue that personality is not desirable or necessary. Only when personality and personal identity is destroyedcan a new being be forged, based on whatever new code you choose to live by.Nietzsche's ubermensch is, in a way, an egoless being. Not in a state of full ego death, but of ego dissolution. The ubermensch has no personality, only will-to-power, love and creativity.

[brooklyn718]

The ego can definatly die. Someone I know who is much older had a bad trip on LSD, and inquired "brain damage" A psychologyst said that she did not infact go through irriversible brain damage, but the powerful effect of the LSD experiance precipitated a permanent state of ego death. This woman supposedly has a brain like you and I but the dose of LSD she apparently took causes her to have a 3 day, fake ego death experiance, now she is completely stuck in this world that is alian. She cannot communicate, people would think she was mentally retarded.


The LSD caused an irreversable Ego death experiance. This person does not have an ego anymore, hence is the reason her personality does not exist. She knows how to eat and everything else.


I dont belive in the ID and super ego stuff. ID is simply the concious mind and memory compartments behind it. Super ego is "the brain" of the ego, because the ego is considered an entity on its own in most respects. When the ego is dead, the concious mind reverts to complete instinct. The ego can die, and it does, it is unusual for it to die for long periods of time, but people who do not know the power of these experiances can be irreversably effected from these experiances. Re-birth of the ego is when the concious mind decides to come to termsin some ways with the ego, causing the person to show more "completeness" The egos morals are still there, its ideas are still there, it still argues with you, but the personality is different if the experiance is profound enough to cause the concious mind to come to terms with the ego in some form.


Complete ego dissolusion or death is a reason for many mental diseases i belive.