Snorting - Is ~20 times an year a safe frequency for...

[dead_elvis]

Hi al. Pleased to meet you.
I read a few posts an i believe i understood the style in which to ask questions so if i messed it up please forgive my ignorance

Swim fihished colledge and does some recreational drugs, for alternative methods of fun and exploration. Swim did shrooms once, DMT twice and smokes weed like every other young hipster in his country.

Swim's did simple Speed/Amphetamine last summer for that extra kick, confidence, profound conversations and improved flirting, mostly related to
to parties near the beach line.

Swim did it weekly, with around 15-20 times total till the end of summer, and has been modest in quantity.

And now for the question:
Swim is concerned about his health, and possible negative effects of such a lifestyle. He is planning on doing some speed for 10-20 nights out during the summer again. Swim tries to be cautious with his health,
but he wants a down to earth explanation about what he could expect in the short and long-term. Please dont scare swim with overdramatic "when lab rats were given 12523 shots of speed per day permanent damage occured" posts unless really justified. If that much can be concidered "safe", please give/link swim some advice on what what things he can do to improve safeness (eg. drink lotsa milk, dont smoke too much tobbaco).

basically the scariest shit his friends told him was that is that every line slightly impair your dopamine production forever and ever so with every line you get more depressed, lethargic and attention deficited.


sorry for the long post, I hate myself too

dead_elvis added 2 Minutes and 50 Seconds later...

forgot to mention.
Swim stopped somewhere in september and started at the end of may this year.

dead_elvis added 57 Minutes and 20 Seconds later...

OK i did some browsing and this seemed pretty interesting.
Is the tolerance reversible by just stopping amph?
Or are people "never the same again" ?

"Tolerance to dopamine does happen, but dopamine is not the only neurotransmitter that is affected by amphetamine. Norepinephrine is also affected by amphetamine. What seems to happen is this: The recreational effects are tolerated, but the cognitive improvement from them remains.

This calls for a little lesson in human anatomy and neurology.

Norepinephrine is usually excitory, and dopamine is usually inhibitory. The autonomic nervous system is controlled by parasympathetic and sympathetic neurons. Parasympathetic neurons are what are active whenever you are calm, relaxed, sedated. You begin to salivate, you digest your food, blood flow to the skin is high, homeostasis is the most important goal, your pupils constrict. Sympathetic neurons are what are active whenever you have your ass on the line. Your body is focused more on the challenge at hand, and its main evolutionary purpose is survival. Your pupils dilate to see more of your surroundings. Your stomach stops digesting food, your muscles react faster, your heart rate increases, and blood is shunted more to your muscles and internal organs, especially the brain, rather than the skin. The sympathetic system is often named the "fight or flight" response.

Taking amphetamines activates the sympathetic nervous system more than the parasympathetic nervous system, and we "abuse" our evolutionary nature by creating a false sense of the need for survival, say, when swimmers use it to take a test or clean the house. The body builds tolerance to dopamine's mood enhancing effects, but norepinephrine is very closely related to adrenalin and epinephrine, which the (as long as it is in high enough concentrations) will ALWAYS activate the sympathetic nervous system, so the therapeutic effects never go away."

[sknkv2]

If a period of abstinence is had tolerance will return to normal levels. As for long/short term effects, there's plenty of info on this forum and other websites.

[HorseBucket]

Swih thinks that stuff about amphetamines permanently altering your dopamine levels is just more drug propaganda.

[Dexyfiend]

^^^ what SWIHB said.

The brain is remarkably resilient and SWIM thinks 20 odd times a year during summer is fine.
SWIM has been doing amphetamines weekly-bi weekly for the last 10yrs and has noticed no ill permanent effects.

Just dont smoke/shoot .5-1g of meth daily for 10yrs SWIM feels that may fuck Swiy up but otherwise... no probs

[c17h21no4]

well ... if you consider that there are ppl taking meth everyday and they are perfectly healthy ( desoxyn for example, do not smoke meth, that's what kills your teeth, my goldfish would rather shoot it ) 20 times a year it's like drinking a beer once a month. but my goldfish suggests that you go with pharmaceuticals rather than street stuff , even if it's more expensive , go for quality ... money shouldnt be an issue if you do it 20 times a year ...

[ShawnD]

OP, you already know that a high dosage of any drug causes brain damage. Since you know about it and will avoid that problem, nobody here really needs to explain why taking too much of anything is bad. Most government drug websites list the signs that one is taking too much of a particular drug. Read the DEA meth page for signs of taking too much amphetamine:
-psychotic behavior
-anxiety
-fatigue
-paranoia
-aggression (not just ready to argue, but ready to physically fight)
-intense cravings (this includes hyper-sexuality)
-confusion
-insomnia
-hallucinations
-delusions


What really gets people with most drugs is how the frequency of taking drugs will destroy the brain.

Let's use alcohol as an example of how a high frequency of drug use can cause brain damage. Alcohol increases the levels of GABA in the brain, so when someone first becomes an alcoholic, the brain is out of balance because there is too much GABA. The brain responds to this by producing less GABA, because alcohol is there to pick up the slack. This is what drug addicts are talking about when they say they need drugs to "get back to normal"; that's literally what the drug does - get the brain back to its normal chemical balance. Now assume the alcoholic checks into rehab and stops drinking. The brain is suddenly out of balance again because the level of GABA is now too low. This low level of GABA screws with their mood, but more importantly, an alcoholic going into withdrawal can have a seizure and die because of this instability in the brain.

So how does this relate to amphetamine? Same thing applies. Amphetamine boosts dopamine and noradrenaline. If someone is on speed for a month straight, the brain gets lazy, the brain relies on that particular drug (addiction), and the brain is half-broken when the person stops taking the drug and goes into withdrawal. A lot of addictions can have a complete recovery with very few permanet side-effects, but really bad addictions cause severe brain damage. In the case of amphetamine, a high dosage addiction over a long period of time causes damage to the brain's dopamine parts, so the long term effect is poor dopamine sensitivity. With not enough dopamine, the expected long term effect would be: poor memory, poor cognitive ability, indecisiveness, poor motor skills, severe depression (possibly suicidal), poor attention span, inability to learn.

So that's the general guideline for all drugs - try to keep the frequency as low as possible. Drinking a beer with friends = good. Drinking a beer when you're alone just to get buzzed = not good.
If you remember just one thing from this entire thread, it should be this: don't take more drug during a "coming down" period. The brain is trying to adjust itself as drugs leave the system, and interfering with that process is a sure fire way to get addicted if you keep doing it. It doesn't matter if it's alcohol, cocaine, cigarettes, or whatever. This applies to all drugs.

Is the tolerance reversible by just stopping amph?
Or are people "never the same again" ?

This heavily depends on dosage. If someone is taking very large doses of amphetamine and staying high 24/7, even 1 month of doing that can cause severe and permanent brain damage. With a more moderate dosage, such as a typical prescription for Adderall, people can take amphetamine on a daily basis for years and have little or no brain damage.
Another thing to consider is how a drug is being taken. Drugs in the lungs or blood get to the brain extremely fast. The nose is a bit slower, but still pretty fast. The stomach is generally a lot slower. Even the design of the pill itself affects the rate of drug release. Prescription drugs like Adderal are sometimes designed to be taken once per day, so that means that pill has a very slow rate of release, which keeps the dosage in the safe level, but makes it easy to get addicted without even realizing it since the drug never completely leaves the body.

I don't want to generalize too much, but I'll go as far as saying that fast release methods of drug administration are more likely to cause brain damage. If somebody smashes up an Adderall pill and snorts it, doesn't that mean the brain has a very large surge of dopamine, all at one time? Doesn't that mean they're more likely to overdose? Doesn't that mean they're more likely to damage the dopamine receptors in the brain? Doesn't that also mean a much harder crash when it wears off, and a much stronger desire to take more drug during that crash, which means a much greater chance of addiction?