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Amphetamines addiction Support for coping with Amphetamine-, Meth- and Ecstasy- addiction and Amphetamine addiction treatment.

 
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  #1  
Old 13-06-2008, 17:07
xxNikkixx xxNikkixx is offline
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Depression & dopamine depletion after quitting methamphetamine

Swim has been a meth addict on & off for 12 or so years. Swim has also tried quitting & has made it as many as 4 straight months clean. However, when ever swim isn't doing speed, the depression & suicidal tendencies are unbearable. Is this normal? Has anyone else had this or something similar? Is it avoidable? Because to be honest, its better to remain a drug addict than to commit suicide, no?
  #2  
Old 13-06-2008, 18:09
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Re: Depression?

YES!!! SWIM used to do meth everyday for quite awhile, and ICE quality too. SWIM hasn't done meth in a couple months and feels HORRIBLE. He uses cannabis to help ease the psychological void. It WILL NOT CURE IT, but as SWIY said, the depression and suicidal feelings are unbearable.
  #3  
Old 13-06-2008, 19:26
y0ssarianlives y0ssarianlives is offline
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Re: Depression?

SWIM was a speed addict for many years, and is still now recovering from the mental toll the drug took on SWIM's mind. Yes, what SWIY is experiencing is normal. It will take time for the depression and suicidal thoughts to pass. Please, get in to see a psychiatrist and tell them what SWIY is experiencing because of SWIY former drug use and they will present medical options available to help SWIY recover from the damage speed did to your brain. Spare no details about SWIYS former drug use if you go in to see one; it will help them determine what course of action to take. It's literally physical damage to SWIYS brain from the extreme nuerotoxicity of amphetamines that causes SWIYS current state of mind.

It will take time, but it will heal. SWIM can attest to that. It has been nearly 10 months since SWIM took a dose of amphetamines and he is just now beginning to get over the psychosis that has vastly affected his life and mind from speed use.

It's worth it though, please don't go back to it. SWIY will only sink deeper into the pit of despair.

Good luck
  #4  
Old 13-06-2008, 21:12
xxNikkixx xxNikkixx is offline
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Re: Depression?

Thank you for your responses, it is much appreciated! However, swim finds no benefit from marijuana, it doesn't help the depression at all.

As for seeing a psychiatrist, that doesn't seem an option, as swim has no medical insurance and is unable to afford the costs & the state won't help. Swim is in over her head.
  #5  
Old 19-06-2008, 19:38
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Re: Depression?

Meth is extremely dopamine enhancing. It causes the brain to release floods of dopamine. To some extend, it acts as a DARI, so it keeps the dopamine in the synapses for a long time.
After repeated long-term use, the brain begins to shutdown dopamine receptors, so when a swimmer is off meth, there is very little dopamine left in brain and she gets depressed. At this point, she actually has a chemical imbalance in her brain. With no dopamine in areas like the temporal lobe, it affects emotional stability. With it missing in places like the striatum, there is impaired mental function. Basically, the swimmer cannot think or feel. Everything is cold and grey.
Over time the brain can replace depleted dopamine, but it is not designed to do it quickly. It might be possible to help it along, though. Try things that stimulate dopamine production. Start with the physical - EAT! Eat lots of whole foods...meat, eggs, dairy, even bananas. These have tyrosine, which the body converts to dopamine.
Exercise - Dopamine is used in movement. Doesnt have to be strenuous, but keep moving. Walking, cleaning, moving things.
Try to get the brain to make more dopamine by stimulating its manufacture. Listen to favorite music, find pictures or movies of nature. Colorful rolling hills, pretty birds, waterfalls might help. Water is very healing.
Even things like chocolate and sex might help stimulate the brains production of dopamine.
Dont give up. It seems worse than it is. Weaker people than swiy have pulled through this and so can swiy. Swiy'll feel Swiyself becoming stronger as time goes by. Dont be so quick to think swiy's only options are addiction or suicide. Theres a lot more than what swiy sees.
If someone has the flu, they lie around a while feeling bad, then they get up and try to help make themselves better. Its now time to get up and help swiys mind make itself better.
Hope this helps.
Good luck

Post Quality Evaluations:
Excellent post, some fantastic tips given there!
Great tips for Dopamine issues and facts.
very useful, true facts and a silver lining :)
This is good advice. Dex personally feels that are better armed in battle knowing how your enemy works.
  #6  
Old 19-06-2008, 19:52
Metomni Gold member Metomni is offline
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Re: Depression?

There are places you can go even if you don't have health insurance where they will look at your need and circumstances and get you help. Don't let that be the obstacle that puts you back into the addiction. SWIM has no experience with this addiction, but he can only imagine the despair it causes and pleads for you to get some help.

Just google something like family counseling centers in the area that you live and look. There's help out there, you just have to go get it.

Good luck friend.
  #7  
Old 19-06-2008, 21:33
humdroid humdroid is offline
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Re: Depression?

SWIM was an amphetamine addict, not meth, but the sulphate version, otherwise known as base.
Base caused SWIM's ankles to swell up, which possibly indicated SWIMS heart didnt like speed too much.
SWIM isnt doing base anymore, but hears you, original poster, about your friend SWIM, and his depression.
SWIM even feels too depressed to do base now, but has pondered, "heart attack while high" versus "wasted talent, poor opinion of humanity, and inability to deal with outside pressures"
Of course, the life choice is always right, no matter how our friends, messrs SWIM, are convinced otherwise.
  #8  
Old 05-07-2008, 20:46
ShaGoDNe ShaGoDNe is offline
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Re: Depression & dopamine depletion after quitting methamphetamine

The depression is a byproduct of the euphoria that you once felt, it is only natural that you saw heaven, now you must experience hell...
With that said, many good suggestions have been made, albeit they might sound light and fluffy, do not under-estimate the benefit of doing something that you don't want to do even though you know it will help you... Movement from your depressive state will trigger inertia and once the ball is rolling there is no stopping you.
Also, be aware of the neuro-transmitter damage done to the brain throughout use, and read up on amino-acids as they are the precursors to the neuro-transmitters activated &/or damaged...
I would recommend investing in some Melatonin, Tyrosine & Tryptophan supplements... and perhaps gearing a diet around the depleted amino-acids... Don't forget about some Calcium as well eh??
  #9  
Old 08-02-2009, 11:27
Regaining_My_Soul Regaining_My_Soul is offline
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Re: Depression & dopamine depletion after quitting methamphetamine

REAL TALK HERE.

SWIM was once a major cokehead. Feelings of hopelessness and sadness continue to linger 2.5 years later.
  #10  
Old 18-02-2009, 23:41
humdroid humdroid is offline
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Re: Depression & dopamine depletion after quitting methamphetamine

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxNikkixx View Post
Swim has been a meth addict on & off for 12 or so years. Swim has also tried quitting & has made it as many as 4 straight months clean. However, when ever swim isn't doing speed, the depression & suicidal tendencies are unbearable. Is this normal? Has anyone else had this or something similar? Is it avoidable? Because to be honest, its better to remain a drug addict than to commit suicide, no?
T thinks that, T is a base addict.
T dosent want to rely on base though.
T is not on base at the minute and if he had the choice, he would rather be a non suicidal, non depressed non addict.

humdroid added 2 Minutes and 11 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regaining_My_Soul View Post
REAL TALK HERE.

SWIM was once a major cokehead. Feelings of hopelessness and sadness continue to linger 2.5 years later.
that's a comfort.
swim dosent want to be assaulted with a suicidal weapon by swim in the meantime though.
swim dosent want to take amphetamines either anymore.

Last edited by humdroid; 18-02-2009 at 23:41. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #11  
Old 11-08-2010, 03:56
Canadian4Life Canadian4Life is offline
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Re: Depression & dopamine depletion after quitting methamphetamine

SWIM has used ecstasy and Meth alot in the past and always found taking amino acids like 5-htp and L-Tyrosine as well as a high dose b vitamin complex made him feel normal in only a few days. He doesn't suggest tasking them on METH but for recovering these things help alot!
  #12  
Old 12-08-2010, 08:02
sykes sykes is offline
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Re: Depression & dopamine depletion after quitting methamphetamine

After repeated use, SWIM is experiencing mild depression (been feeling like this for a week now).
  #13  
Old 13-08-2010, 08:13
antileet antileet is offline
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Re: Depression & dopamine depletion after quitting methamphetamine

i usually fill my days with activities, positivity
no reminders of my use, past, etc

idle time is the devil's playground
  #14  
Old 05-01-2011, 02:25
gotshakes gotshakes is offline
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Re: Depression & dopamine depletion after quitting methamphetamine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian4Life View Post
SWIM has used ecstasy and Meth alot in the past and always found taking amino acids like 5-htp and L-Tyrosine as well as a high dose b vitamin complex made him feel normal in only a few days. He doesn't suggest tasking them on METH but for recovering these things help alot!
so is SWIY sure that it helps? as in how many other people would testify to this same thing?

sorry for the skepticism but some would call that the placebo effect which is very strong and real
  #15  
Old 13-01-2011, 19:22
J0hnk47 J0hnk47 is offline
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Re: Depression & dopamine depletion after quitting methamphetamine

Some sort of physical activity, such as walking or cycling, seems to help. Just 10 minutes or so as often as you can.
  #16  
Old 19-01-2012, 01:37
Ronin1 Ronin1 is offline
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Re: Depression & dopamine depletion after quitting methamphetamine

Yes, I think people may not give excersise the correct value it deserves. It will get the brain juices moving, help with dopamine reproduction and clear that grey foggy feeling you have in your brain from being tired. It also helps the toxins in the body cycle out more productively, helps the heart with oxygen to all extremities and for the most part gets you out of the house. I strongly reccomend starting here for at least a week. I is free and will give you a baseline on where you need to go next.
  #17  
Old 30-01-2012, 07:17
J0hnk47 J0hnk47 is offline
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Re: Depression & dopamine depletion after quitting methamphetamine

Something I highly recommend is to go out of your way to do things you have never done before, or wouldn't ordinarily do. Eat something you've never tasted. Go somewhere {near or far} that you've never been. Make a new friend, or say "Hello" to someone you've never met. Open new channels of thought, if even briefly, for your mind to stretch it's "legs".

Do I have to point out that one should avoid new destructive behaviours?
We'll never succeed without some intelligence and simple common sense.

I plan on tearing down this prison I've built around me. I hope to someday know that I have suceeded.

I'm only two weeks free now after 6 yrs daily/20 yrs 4 times or more a week. Walking, hiking two to three times a day. I'm not doing it alone and that may be what is saving me. Only time will truly tell.Thank-you for providing such a BS free forum.
  #18  
Old 05-02-2012, 16:30
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Re: Depression & dopamine depletion after quitting methamphetamine

The depression is due to the imbalance/lack of serotonine, dopamine an (nor)adrenaline. thats clear. 5-htp, a serotonine precursor, and some mentioned aminoacids like thyrosine and phenylanaline can help, but in addition to this swim made good experiences with some AD's. What first comes in mind is Buprobion, but Venlafaxine in small doses (10-30mg) was more helpful, even for swim. Next to Rc,s in the cathione or phenylethylamine way, those Ad,s are maybe the last resort...
If healing without chemicals at all is wanted, sports like swimming (yes, water heals) are very effective. Good luck!
  #19  
Old 05-02-2012, 17:15
St Dismas Novitiate St Dismas Novitiate is offline
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Re: Depression & dopamine depletion after quitting methamphetamine

Like the OP, I used meth for many, many years. The feelings he describes are a natural and unavoidable part of the process of healing the bio-psycho-social damage that excessive and/or extended use of meth (and to a lesser extent, any stimulant) causes. Bad news? It can, and often does, last up to 5 years. Good news? You can heal from it! How long it will take for you will depend on lifestyle choices. Eat well, take care of yourself physically and mentally, and you will heal faster than if you chip away on your habit, become a couch-potato, etc.

It will come and go in waves. It might be bad for 3-6 months, then be almost not noticeable for a time, then it will come back. You will come to see that each time it does come back, it will not be quite as strong or last quite as long as it did the time before. It will still be a very difficult time-from start to finish-and many fail and go back to their addiction, die, etc.

Research PAWS.
  #20  
Old 05-02-2012, 17:57
Tech House Tech House is offline
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Re: Depression & dopamine depletion after quitting methamphetamine

Good advice about lifestyle and a few supplements has been given. Here is a summary of supplements I use for being "high" from dopamine/norepinephrine/serotonin/GABA on a daily basis:

Dopa-mucuna extract (standardized to 15% L-Dopa): 1600-2400 mg
theobromine: 500 mg
l-tyrosine: 500-1000 mg
rhodiola: 325 mg (standardized)
hordenine: 50 mg
curcumin: 1000 mg
vitamin D3: 1000 mg
B vitamin complex
l-theanine: as needed and/or wanted
phenibut: 300 mg at bed time for improved sleep
giinkgo: 120 mg
cat's claw: 400 mg
green tea extract: 400 mg
piracetam: 1000+ mg
vinpocetine: 20 mg
omega-3 oil supplement: 2000 mg

Rather than post an entire article here I'll just say that you can research all the above, plus my comments below, online for yourself depending on what interests you.

I purchase some of these in bulk and create custom blends based on what I am trying to achieve and the info I gather from research on each.

The list above includes some selective MAO-B and non-selective reversible MAO inhibitors that I only take in the morning due to stimulant effects and my tendency to eat foods that contain tyramine for lunch and dinner (tofu, nuts, avocado and others.)

Also included are precursors for the Big Four neurotransmitters, plus some mild stimulants (mild dopamine and/or NE releasing effects.)

Nootropic properties of theobromine, phenibut, green tea extract, piracetam, vinpocetine, ginkgo and rhodiola are all helpful in healing the brain and making it sharper, although evidence is stronger for some than others and many would say I'm spending far too much money on this stuff. But I feel great, so I have no complaints.

My feeling is that the use of supplements that help replenish lost dopamine and NE may help stem the waves of suicidal depression just enough to make a small difference, and that small difference might be the one between actual suicide vs. choosing life.

As for being an addict vs. suicide, I'd probably go with suicide in the case of meth. Either way you're killing yourself, but if you're going to kill yourself you should do it in a way that is less painful and more intentional than the unpredictable course of dying via hard core drug use.

Again, the lifestyle comments people have made are very important and I'm only adding the supplements to that as part of what may help; eating well, getting exercise, doing things that bring you some measure of happiness, connecting with people, being of service to others, all of this is more useful, in the long run, than taking supplements, but if you need something to get you through your days then take advantage of all the legal stuff that nature and chemistry provide.

Last edited by Tech House; 05-02-2012 at 18:43.
  #21  
Old 19-02-2012, 12:23
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Re: Depression & dopamine depletion after quitting methamphetamine

Sorry, but SWIM will have to pitch in here and add that is depression is that much of a problem and contributing to extreme suicidal thoughts, SWIM would have no other option than to recommend an anti-depressant, preferably a dopamine-leveling drug such as Wellbutrin. It really has been helpful for the times SWIM quit speed. Yes, there are some moments of irritability and whatnot but sure could live a more functional life on antidepressant meds. And the good news is they're pretty much non-abusable. Take it or leave it. but long term speed use could really do so down-regulation on the receptors and leave you with a persistent depression or what some call PAWS if you want to say.

Aside from that in extreme cases. If it's manageable, just stick with lots of vitamins, exercise, adequate sleep schedule (going to bed at a decent time), drink lots of water, and find a hobby or activity that you enjoy. Something fun that'll naturally get your endorphins up. Plus, some good music too! music is a great form of medicine. SWIM can't go a day without some nice dance beating dance music (however, be warned, some music/songs could act as a relapse trigger. sounds messed up, but could happen).. And stick with an environment of healthy friends and family that will be there for you and listen to you, understanding. support. this is just SWIM's personal advice.

Good luck!
  #22  
Old 19-02-2012, 15:52
St Dismas Novitiate St Dismas Novitiate is offline
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Re: Depression & dopamine depletion after quitting methamphetamine

A serotonin re-uptake inhibitor such as an SSRI or even an SSNI might be a better choice than Wellbutrin when dealing with a serotonin depleting drug such as methamphetamine. I would encourage you to consult with a medical professional in this particular field or area of expertise before ever considering the addition of such a drug to your regimen, as they could narrow down the type of drug necessary for your unique situation.

Most doctors, when presented with an individual who expresses a desire to get clean and stay that way, actually will help you. However, when you are dealing with a "psych" drug, the average GP or Family doctor will not prescribe, even in a situation such as this. They will often refer you to a local Public Health program that deals with drug abuse, who will then do the whole interview.intake process, get you to see one of their doctors, prescribe meds, etc. It can be a huge pain in the ass, unless you are truly serious about getting and staying clean. The benefits are that these services are usually free and after a certain time on their program, you can often transfer the medication aspect back to your regular doc.

If you are just looking for a way to "re-charge" after a heavy session, the best answer is going to be time. An extended time period of no further use, coupled with proper nutrition and exercise.
  #23  
Old 19-02-2012, 23:23
Tech House Tech House is offline
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Re: Depression & dopamine depletion after quitting methamphetamine

It's interesting that my fellow Americans are advocating use of prescription medications over other sources of help. I don't mean to criticize those individuals but rather to critique our system of health care. We are brainwashed in the USA to believe that prescription meds are the most effective substances for treating every kind of medical or psychological condition. In most cases this is simply not true.

Fortunately most other countries are not controlled by huge corporate interests such as pharmaceutical and insurance companies, so there are countless studies done elsewhere that validate the effectiveness of herbs and supplements. But there are also MANY studies conducted under the most careful conditions in the US which come to similar conclusions, which are published by the government and are available on reputable websites (such as nih.gov and drugs.com), but which nobody sees unless they know to look for them. Why don't we hear about these? Because the substances tested cannot be patented. This is very simple.

Doctors, including (and perhaps especially) psychiatrists, are generally too busy or disinterested to bother learning about alternatives to pharmaceuticals, so they write prescriptions based on what drug company reps push on them with samples and gifts (and corruption.) In addition, because the alternatives are not regulated, they're not as reliable in terms of knowing what you're getting, so that is a risk. Doctors here will not take such risks because of potential for lawsuits. So we are stuck with a system in which you cannot get alternative treatment unless you take matters into your own hands.

It's difficult to learn about how to treat one's own depression, beyond the obvious lifestyle factors, but it can really pay off if the depressed person finds alternatives to patented SSRIs, NDRIs, tricyclics and MAOIs that are more effective in correcting the chemical imbalances which contribute to mental health problems.
  #24  
Old 20-02-2012, 19:12
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Re: Depression & dopamine depletion after quitting methamphetamine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech House View Post
It's interesting that my fellow Americans are advocating use of prescription medications over other sources of help. I don't mean to criticize those individuals but rather to critique our system of health care. We are brainwashed in the USA to believe that prescription meds are the most effective substances for treating every kind of medical or psychological condition. In most cases this is simply not true.

Fortunately most other countries are not controlled by huge corporate interests such as pharmaceutical and insurance companies, so there are countless studies done elsewhere that validate the effectiveness of herbs and supplements. But there are also MANY studies conducted under the most careful conditions in the US which come to similar conclusions, which are published by the government and are available on reputable websites (such as nih.gov and drugs.com), but which nobody sees unless they know to look for them. Why don't we hear about these? Because the substances tested cannot be patented. This is very simple.

Doctors, including (and perhaps especially) psychiatrists, are generally too busy or disinterested to bother learning about alternatives to pharmaceuticals, so they write prescriptions based on what drug company reps push on them with samples and gifts (and corruption.) In addition, because the alternatives are not regulated, they're not as reliable in terms of knowing what you're getting, so that is a risk. Doctors here will not take such risks because of potential for lawsuits. So we are stuck with a system in which you cannot get alternative treatment unless you take matters into your own hands.

It's difficult to learn about how to treat one's own depression, beyond the obvious lifestyle factors, but it can really pay off if the depressed person finds alternatives to patented SSRIs, NDRIs, tricyclics and MAOIs that are more effective in correcting the chemical imbalances which contribute to mental health problems.
Agreed, however, most people do not want to wait the 6 months or so that it takes for herbal remedies to fully take effect. Just as most people don't truly want to make positive changes in their lifestyles, they prefer to coast along until forced to change.

No, today everyone wants instant gratification, and that is where pills come in. Feel bad? Take this pill and feel good. From there it is just a short jump to Feel Good? Take these pills and feel even better! In today's healthcare system, the doctors find it easier to offer pills than they do lifestyle advice, because that is what the patients want!
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Old 20-02-2012, 19:58
Tech House Tech House is offline
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Re: Depression & dopamine depletion after quitting methamphetamine

Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased View Post
No, today everyone wants instant gratification, and that is where pills come in. Feel bad? Take this pill and feel good. From there it is just a short jump to Feel Good? Take these pills and feel even better! In today's healthcare system, the doctors find it easier to offer pills than they do lifestyle advice, because that is what the patients want!
Spot on, very well said. This entire website wouldn't exist if not for the truth contained in your words. I am this way; it has been at least 10 days since I last worked out, and I've been staying in my house isolated. I'm wanting a lift in my mood, to feel good and vibrant and more alive, so what do I do about it? I think about finding a substance that will make me feel good without my having to do anything more than put it in my mouth or my nose. And I want it to be legal, non-addictive, healthy, fast-acting, euphoric... *sigh* I guess the closest thing to this would be sex.

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