Does your body ever feel right again after long term opiate use?

[kasbeq]

This is an old post but swim feels the need to add to it
swim has often asked himself self many times -why does swim feel this way
swim has been on heroin for several years and on methadone for a couple. swim stopped and was drugfree for at least 4 years but unfortunately never been able to fully recover. Swim was diagnosed with chronic depression but no therapy has ever helped me. Recently swim started taking opiate prescriptions occasionally and immediately felt normal . Now swim’s almost convinced that swim does not suffer from depression at all ,but swim has probably never been able to completely recover from his addiction . If that is the case then what does swim do about it – how do you fight something that you cannot see

[UNIBLACK810]

Originally Posted by kasbeq

This is an old post but swim feels the need to add to it
swim has often asked himself self many times -why does swim feel this way
swim has been on heroin for several years and on methadone for a couple. swim stopped and was drugfree for at least 4 years but unfortunately never been able to fully recover. Swim was diagnosed with chronic depression but no therapy has ever helped me. Recently swim started taking opiate prescriptions occasionally and immediately felt normal . Now swim’s almost convinced that swim does not suffer from depression at all ,but swim has probably never been able to completely recover from his addiction . If that is the case then what does swim do about it – how do you fight something that you cannot see

Hello Kasbek, It was me who originally posted this topic a long time ago. & gosh SWIM wishes so much SWIM could answer this question,but as of now SWIM is still in the same boat as SWIY. SWIM also was a Heroin addict but for many more years than you,over 10 years.& although SWIM has been off of heroin & cocaine for roughly 3 yrs.now SWIM still uses opiate based products to "feel normal.SWIM went for over a year pushing thru without them but it was hell.SWIM felt like SWIM was never,ever,ever comfortable within SWIMs own skin. Depressed,lack of energy,no motovation,never happy,insomnia,always extra tired,no desire to do anything.However after a few pills or spoonful of kratom,not to get high! but just to feel adequate SWIM was fine. SWIMs body will just NOT function properly without it. I tried to wait out the PaWS but to no avail. I JUST DID NOT FEEL BETTER.The occasional maintenance doses SWIM uses are NEVER to get "high". Just to feel normal.It does not intefere with SWIMs life.SWIM works now,owns 2 vehichles & condo,SWIM fuctions just find now.SWIM does what works for SWIM,& this is what works for SWIM.

[kasbeq]

Hi Uniblack810

Firs of all thanks for swiy-s reply and swim suffered the same symptoms as swiy mentioned and that is why swim was probably diagnosed with depression. Swim is also lately taking an occasional opiate just to feel normal but is worried that his intervals will get fewer in-between and will eventually end up where swim does not want to be . In the other hand swim cannot go on forever feeling lethargic , blue and in agony . Swim is aware that many will say ohhh stop whingeing and just use -or continue drugfree – but this a really tough call

[UNIBLACK810]

Originally Posted by kasbeq

Hi Uniblack810

Firs of all thanks for swiy-s reply and swim suffered the same symptoms as swiy mentioned and that is why swim was probably diagnosed with depression. Swim is also lately taking an occasional opiate just to feel normal but is worried that his intervals will get fewer in-between and will eventually end up where swim does not want to be . In the other hand swim cannot go on forever feeling lethargic , blue and in agony . Swim is aware that many will say ohhh stop whingeing and just use -or continue drugfree – but this a really tough call

Once again hello.Kasbeq
SWIMS ideology is that you & I whomever has the right to live a full & happy life.Nowadays you do what you got 2 to get through.SWIMS thought has always been its not whut you do but how you do it. Once your life becomes unmanagable & you canot function properly than YES you have gone to far.On the other hand people drink coffee every morning,smoke packs of ciggarettes & have a drink or two everday to get them through. The key is that it is a managible condition,just as a diabetics needs an insulin shot to function proplerly! (see my point?) In NO way is SWIM pushing or condoning this idea.SWIM is just sharing what has worked for SWIM.SWIM should search for other methods first as this is what SWIM did.But with no luck.Some individuals posses a chemical imbalance internally which inhibits them from properly producing natural endorphins properly.This seems to be SWIMS case.Some are born this way while others develop in on there own from long term opiate use. Whatever the case may be,it hurts. It is the most gut renching feeling one could ever feel & it needs to matter of factly HaSn TO! be addressed one way or another...........Than again just SWims 2 cents.

UNIBLACK810 added 6 Minutes and 42 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by missparkles

Swim has childhood trauma that caused a breakdown at 11. A doctor put swim on valium and by 12 swim was boozing, 13 mainlining heroin.
At 40 it was time to try or die to come off.
The last 15yrs have been hard for swim, the occasionalrelapse occured along the way, but with supportive family and friends swim is still clean.
It get easier the more time passes.
Swim didn't get addicted in a year so doesn't expect to unlearn all of the addicted behaviour in ayear.
With time swim found that it's possible to re-educate herself.
But swim will always be grateful to substances.
They were a coping tool that swim used to get her to the point where she could quit. If it hadn't been for heroin, swim would have taken her life years ago.
Unfortunately not everyone is so fortunate.
Hang in there, it does get better.

Wow.....I LOVE YOU FOR THIS POST Misssparkles!!
("But swim will always be grateful to substances.
They were a coping tool that swim used to get her to the point where she could quit. If it hadn't been for heroin, swim would have taken her life years ago".) SWIM always thought I was the ONLY person in the world who felt this way!! Thanxs for the reassurance that Im not.

[EyesOfTheWorld]

This is why Monkey can never get past a few months off opiates, and has begun to realize he will probably never quit, considering his supply is cheap and legal/quasilegal (Rx oxy and cheap, effective pods). He does make honest efforts to get clean, goes thru the few weeks of actual WD, or alternatively does a self-administered bupe or methadone or kratom extract taper, and sometimes he can get past the wd phase, but he still lacks energy, hurts everywhere (it doesnt help matters that he is a legitimate pain patient) and feels a lot of the same issues others have expressed here. He is left to wonder, if he can manage to kick heroin to the curb to eliminate OD risk, is there anything wrong with life-long oxy/pod use when the alternative is feeling like half a person all the time?
Note that he has had extensive bloodwork/testing done to rule out a disease, genetic condition or other physical cause for these feelings, as well as extensive psychotherapy. Plain and simple, if it really takes YEARS to get back to feeling fully normal, he doesn't think he can make it. If he were still in his early 20's, maybe he'd try, but at 32 he NEEDS to have his energy etc at peak levels to do things like work and maintain a life. He just doesn't have 2 spare years to give to getting normal.
It's depressing that he knows he will be an addict for life, but that's just the way it goes.

[kasbeq]

Hmmm
my cat's wondering if only endorphin re-uptake inhibitors where available –like in a case of serotonin . it would probably solve many misteries

[missparkles]

Originally Posted by EyesOfTheWorld

This is why Monkey can never get past a few months off opiates, and has begun to realize he will probably never quit, considering his supply is cheap and legal/quasilegal (Rx oxy and cheap, effective pods). He does make honest efforts to get clean, goes thru the few weeks of actual WD, or alternatively does a self-administered bupe or methadone or kratom extract taper, and sometimes he can get past the wd phase, but he still lacks energy, hurts everywhere (it doesnt help matters that he is a legitimate pain patient) and feels a lot of the same issues others have expressed here. He is left to wonder, if he can manage to kick heroin to the curb to eliminate OD risk, is there anything wrong with life-long oxy/pod use when the alternative is feeling like half a person all the time?
Note that he has had extensive bloodwork/testing done to rule out a disease, genetic condition or other physical cause for these feelings, as well as extensive psychotherapy. Plain and simple, if it really takes YEARS to get back to feeling fully normal, he doesn't think he can make it. If he were still in his early 20's, maybe he'd try, but at 32 he NEEDS to have his energy etc at peak levels to do things like work and maintain a life. He just doesn't have 2 spare years to give to getting normal.
It's depressing that he knows he will be an addict for life, but that's just the way it goes.

Swim thought she was always going to be "hooked" and couldn't see a way out. But things change.
All swim had was an awareness of her situation and a desire to get clean.
That's what swim is reading in EyesOfTheWorld's post.
It took years of using for swim to process all of this mentally and emotionally. To put everything in place at just the right time to take that "leap in the dark." That's just what is was.

But swim was just as devious about cleaning up as she was when using. She made sure she had lots of safety nets (support systems such as friends, family and health professionals) there to catch her when she fell. And she fell lots of times. Smim still has days when she's hanging on by her fingertips, but she knows it's ok. If she doesn't quite make the jump she just wakes up the next morning, and gives it her best shot. That's all she can do.

Getting clean was the only thing she wanted when she was using and when she got clean that was all she needed. Swim just takes it back to basics when she's struggling.

Swim shared this story with a friend yesterday.
When swim was in rehab she was speaking to a mate who had been clean for years. Swim was bitching about how bad her life was.
He said to swim; "Ok, so it was your turn to cook for 30 people and you burned the dinner, you were in group and everyone dumped their shit on you. Your ex said you have to go to court if you want to see your kids and your mum isn't talking to you. You lost your purse and you're broke till Monday."
Swim said a sheepish "yeah" expecting her mate to be full of sympathy for swim and join her in her wallowing.
Then he asked swim if she'd used that day.
Swim was outraged.
"No, I bloody well haven't" swim said.
"Then it's been a fuckin' awesome day, hasn't it?" swims mate said.
Swim was lost for words.

The point swim is trying to make is swiy has what they need to become drug free, and when everything is just right swim thinks it will happen.
Apart from awareness and the desire to quit swiy is still open to any help (having tests to see what other things could be causing these difficulties) and still searching for a way to live a drug free life.
They are the basics. They just change accordingly with every situation.
Swim is trying (very badly she knows) to say swiy is doing great. Just don't give up. Apologies for swims rambling, and at times "off the wall" opinions. But it does make sense in swims head.

Swim has been reading lots of things on this site and she sees the wealth of knowledge here and feels a little intimidated by all of it. Swim is trying to be supportive in the only way she knows. Sharing her shit. Nothing more, nothing less.
Thanks for sticking with swim on this insane trip down memory lane.
Take care.



EDIT. Swim is really into italics at the moment.

[EyesOfTheWorld]

Thanks for that. His main worry is that if it really takes YEARS to get back to normal, he won't have years to spare until after retirement, he needs all his energy, personality etc. now, and also needs to be as pain-free as he can. Monkey can handles the actual WDs/dopesickness, but it's the constant malaise following it that inevitably has him reaching for a pick me up to get back to normal. He just fears that he won't be able to make anything of his already fucked-up life if he's spending all his time forcing himself to get out of bed, dragging ass throughout the day, being depressed and irritable etc, when he can easily reach for his Oxys and be the energetic, personable, driven, creative person that he is when feeling "normal". He doesn't want to lead a life in which his only "success" is getting off opiates, at the expense of "successes" in romance, finance and other aspects of life. He knows he needs to quit heroin for good, and should get rid of the pods as no one is sure what the life-long health effects of ingesting pods are, but does he need to get off the Oxy that is legally Rx'd to him for legit pain, cheap due to insurance, and keeps him functional. Honestly he is confused and afraid.

EyesOfTheWorld added 2 Minutes and 45 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by kasbeq

Hmmm
my cat's wondering if only endorphin re-uptake inhibitors where available –like in a case of serotonin . it would probably solve many misteries

This is also interesting, at least in theory............Any of the Medline/pharm researcher types know if any forays have been made into this field, and if not, why not? Monkey knows that going on a dopamine reuptake inhibitor (Wellbutrin) killed his psychological "need" for cocaine/crack. He still uses coke once in a while but only when it is offered to him for free or is mixed w/other, more interesting drugs

[cra$h]

Nicotine as bad as opiates? No chance in hell. Swim can easily drop cigs, of course craving, but compared to dope, swim goes a day or two and is curled up in a blanket on the floor not knowing what to do with life. The comparison is like a minoe to a whale

[missparkles]

Swim has been trying to read and make sense of the info on this site about burned out receptors and how chemicals affect the brain. It's made more difficult by the varying substances swim has used, she doesn't really know where to begin.
One thing she does know is her memory is atrocious, she can't watch an hour TV programme because she forgets the beginning of the story. Swim even forgot her sons birth date the other day (she was filling out a form for him) and he was so upset. Swim can't remember if her children were born during the day or at night. She can't remember their birth weights, or the year they were each born.
This is not getting better, the longer swim is clean the worse it's got.
Swim does suffer from short term memory loss from PVFS, but that in itself shouldn't make that much difference. Swim would like to know more.
The more she knows the better armed she is to deal with it.

[sasafrass]

You are correct, physical pain from opiate w/d is far worse. I was talking about long term mental, after detox, "jonse in" for your flavor. Like other posters who have walked away, but return to opiates, so does many smokers.

[chillinwill]

Red Rock is over 15 months clean from opiates and has found that his body started changing around the 6-9 month mark. He had a more positive outlook on life and was getting very few, if any cravings. Now, he rarely gets cravings for heroin and he still occasionally will feel anxious, especially in social situations, but thats just part of Red Rock's personality. These are also normal emotions in everyday life. It has been so long since Red Rock wasn't using drugs (before this 15 month period) that he doesn't know what its like for the body not to be on drugs. Thus, he feels like this is almost as good as it gets the way he is feeling. Hope all this makes sense as Red Rock is very tired from lots of schoolwork but basically, yes Red Rock does think that the body can return back to normal after long term opiate use.

[CrookedEye]

SWIM used Iboga/Ibogaine to detox from a 7 years habit of first heroin and pharmaceutical pills, then methadone. He felt totally back to normal, just two months after using it. He had two weeks of very, very minor post acute withdrawal, and about two months of general lack of motivation. After this he felt like he had never used and his tolerance had been totally reset. He also had no cravings after iboga and lost the desire for the high, as when he tried once afterward, it just didn't feel as good as it used to.

Exercise, proper diet, and finding other hobbies/activities helped him return to normal, relatively, quickly. That being said, different body/brain chemistries may react differently, and often it is a major help to figure out why exactly someone had began using in the first place to find out how to ease the root of the problem and return to a normal healthy lifestyle..

Reputation Comments on this post:

Great advice about finding out the reason why one used in the first place

[gaulois]

SWIM passed on this note...

Hi Everyone- Im new, but am so happy that there are others in my situation.
Until 3 yrs ago I never used opiates for more than 4 months or so at a time.
I would go through w/d and feel somewhat normal in about a few weeks.
The only exception was when I used Heroin and methadone for 4 months and had a nightmarish w/d that lasted for a couple months (again, luck since I did not use too long and went into treatment).
I moved from Miami to Maine in 2001 after a divorce. Amazingly I had not used opiates since 1998, and did not use again. I actually ended up with my two girls! My ex ended up being super self centered and I got lucky. Then in early 2006 I moved back to Miami because my mom was sick. I got a transfer. It was better for my daughters because there was a good H.S. in that neighborhood. My mom had tons of percs. I started using immediately because of the stress, the change all that. I ended up on Suboxone in August 2006. I have tried to stop 3 times lasting only a month each time. My girls graduated, and I got my mom all set, and decided to leave my job and move back to Maine so I could get off of the Suboxone. I lasted only 5 days, found a doc and am supposedly on a 6 week taper. I tapered from about 4-6 to 0 in 10 days.
I am extremely disappointed in myself. I am scared and confused. Am I ever going to get off? Should I consider long term maintenance. But the side effects- libido, lack of interest in outdoor stuff. Steep consequences for maintenance. Like all of you, I have so much potential. I'm very sad, and don't mean to sound like a pussy, but I am very down. I'm even wondering if life is worth living if it has to be this way. I'm in counseling.

[missparkles]

Gaulois. Welcome to DF.

Firstly...never give up hope, it's always worth it. We all get down days, even in recovery. That's just the way it is. Sometimes it takes time...and lots of quitting and relapsing to find out how we can successfully quit. We learn how to be successful addicts, our addiction teaches each of us how to lie, cheat and be devious, so it takes time to unlearn that behaviour. Sparkles was using for nearly thirty years, but has been clean for a few now, and she can say it's worth every pain she had to go through to get here.
There are some excellent topics here, look around, see that others are going through this with him, dealing with the same shit, just a different location.
It's good that he's getting counseling as this will enable him to talk about anything that's bothering him. His counselor will also give him options and advice on how to deal with his drug use. Sometimes Sparkles still gets scared, but it passes. It seems like swiy has been through a lot, this is gonna make him feel anxious, but it is possible to get straight. But don't ever forget...he's not alone.
These topics might help;

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94140

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76991

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73599

Remember the rules on self incrimination. Use SWIM (someone who isn't me) or SWIY (someone who isn't you) it keeps us all safe at DF. If swiy needs anything be sure to ask, that's what we're all here for, to help each other get clean and stay clean.
Take care love.
Sparkles.

[drug-bot]

Abstract Publication European Neuropsychopharmacology Background: Though opium and its derivates is still used in medical
therapy today only as a strong analgesic, the history of this group of
substances is shaped much from their use of mental disorders, which can be
traced back into Europe's Psychiatry of the Classic Era (1). First the
development of the MAO-inhibitors and he tricyclic antidepressants
detached the administration of opiates as the most conventional medicinal
treatment form of depressive disorders. in the last decades, only a few
publications reported on the antidepressive effects of opiates (2), in
particular of buprenorphine, which was attributed an especially small
potential for development of dependence, on account of its mixed partially
agonistic activity on the u-opioid-receptor and antagonists activity on
the e-opioid receptor. Moreover, buprenorphine shows a favourable
influence on affectivity, as is known from the substitution treatment of
heroine addicts and also in non-addicted patients. But it is still not
clear, which depressed patients benefit from a treatment with opiates and
which don't. Nowadays, despite the expanding armary of the newer
antidepressants, about 23-30% of patients do not respond to medication and
12-15% of these lead to a chronic depression. Though the dexamethasone
suppression test (DST) has a sensitivity of only 40-70% in severe
depression, it is one of the few neuroendocrine strategies that offers
insights in the pathophysiology of depression and will help define more
homogeneous subgroups from a bioclinical and therapeutic viewpoint.
Method: In an open label study we included 11 patients (7 f, 4m, 51.2y)
suffering from severe depression according to the ICD-10-criteria for at
least 12 months. The patients were refractory to SSRI's tricyclic
antidepressants, tranylcypromine, venlafaxine and various combinations.
the DST followed after a wash-out-phase of 3 days without any
antidepresants (2mg dexamethasone at 11 pm, serum cortisol level at 8 am).
Then the patients were administered buprenorphine as monotherapy in a
final dosage of 0.8-2.0 mg once daily. the course was documented with the
HAMD and the BDI.
Results: Within 1 week, 7 patients responded to buprenorphine
corresponding to a decrease in the HAMD and the BDI scores for at least
50%. In 5 responders, the cortisol levels were completely suppressed, 2
responders achieved cortisol levels of 1.3 and1.6ug/dl. The 4
non-responders achieved cortisol levels of1.0, 2.0, 2.1 and3.ug/dl
(p=0.02).
Conclusion: The DST in depressed patients responding to buprenorphine
yielded significantly lower cortisol levels than in non-responding
patients. However, cortisol secretion and failure to suppress cortisol in
response to dexamethasone have been consistently associated with severe
depression (3). Possibly, the response to opiates describes a special
subtype of depressive disorders e.g corresponding to a dysregulation of
the endogenous opioid system and not of the monaminergic system.
http://www.coretext.org/show_detail.asp?recno=8086
the high-lighted part may explain why some opitae addicts who havent used in a long time dont feel 'normal'. even though this paper refers to bupenorphine theres no reason it couldnt apply to a full agonist.

also look up endorphine deficiency synrdome(EDS)

[gaulois]

Miss Sparkles- you really made my day, I cannot tell you how grateful I am. For one the hope, and support, and the fact that you took the time to talk to me.
Second- miss sparkles with the head set is hilarious (I generally have a good sense of humor). Thirdly- I was wondering who Swim and Swiy were while reading these posts!
Like...hmm this SWIM guy is popular, I've seen his name mentioned before...
Anyhow- I will take your advice and go to the other threads. I don't know if you realize how much you helped me today by taking the time to comment. I pushed myself to register so I could reach out. I did not think I would hear anything because it was an older post etc. But now I know it works, people are out there. SWIM is here for SWIY as well....thank you, you are a good soul

[missparkles]

No problem love, there are so many people here, just like Sparkles. They've helped her, they'll help SWIY.
Just remember to SWIM (read the rules again) and be kind to yourself.
Take care.
Sparkles.

Yeah... the cat is so cool.

[gaulois]

Drug-bot- that is a very interesting article. What struck me the most is how different an addicts addiction. Like a fingerprint. There is commonality as well, and that is why NA/AA works for some- the idea being-"you are just like everyone else, so don't think you are different". And it does work- for some. But it does not work for a lot of others, like most others. SWIm has fit into both categories. What bothers me about the typical "recovery AA/NA model" is that it is black and white. If you relapse "I guess you have not hit your bottom yet" or "you are not willing to go to any length". Some of this may be true. But anyone who finds themselves in an AA/NA meeting is obviously willing for the most part. Opiate use is very different, IMHO, from Alcoholism. I have been to treatment a few times, and one of the reasons I hated it- most of the people at the time, in Miami, where there for alcohol, or alcohol/cocaine. I feel extremely vulnerable when I come off of opiates. I mean, I cry, and want to isolate, feel like a martian etc.
I could not understand why the other people were laughing and talking while having smokes in the yard, or eating together. I always left AMA.
So, this article is interesting to consider. Opiate abuse (long term) It seems from what I have read, involves a very long period of detox. It also is apparent that some have to be kept on maintenance. SWIM is hoping that he is not one of these.
MissSpark, SWIY wrote about the vulnerability in the "Opiate" thread. Swim was not able to comment for some reason on that. He couldcan relate to a great deal of what you wrote. His first divorce- it was horrible. He was needy, and co-dependant in the classic sense, 2 daughters as well, but in the end, the best thing that could have happened to me. He had a spiritual experience (very personal but real), and for some reason did not use during that struggle. He ended up w/the girls. On the flip side, he got remarried 5yrs later. and was always super self conscious about "pleasing" this person. Is she ok? Did he do something wrong. She ended up being extremely needy he later found out. He also discovered that she had narcisistic tendencies, and had lied about her past. He ended up using like a year into the relationship. I had grown a great deal in the years after my divorce, and feeling responsible for someone's happiness caused a great deal of anxiety. He is now separated again, and really does not want to get in another relationship. Certainly not for a long long time. Recovery first. Swim is extremely vulnerable, especially to friction because of his boyhood.
Swim also may go back to school, or wants to teach

[missparkles]

Sparkles learned when she was in rehab that only she has the power to make herself happy or sad, it's her choice. Others can affect her moods, but if she has a healthy sense of self esteem, and she knows she's ok, nothing anyone can say or do can change that. Who she chooses to have in her life also affects this, she makes better choices now, ones that are emotionally healthy for her. She deserves this, she's worth it. For years she felt useless and stupid, drug use disempowered her, left her feeling extremely negative about herself.
Taking responsibility for ones feelings can be scary, but it's the most empowering thing she has ever done. Now she acknowledges her vulnerability, but sees it as normal (everyone gets scared) and doesn't run from it anymore by using drugs.
A powerful position for anyone to come from, and amazing when we actually do it. She had to get herself right, get herself well first. Till then she wasn't capable of being there for anyone. Hell...she wasn't even there for herself.
Take care.
Sparkles.

[gaulois]

Sparkles- you really are generous in sharing your long term sobriety. Swim has a lot in common. He has, and still does suffer from "fight and flight" due to v. bad home as a boy. Only child and crazy violent parents. Swim is in counseling and learning a lot.
What missparkles has recently shared is very very helpful. Especially the realization that this is a long term process, then ultimately a life long process. This has helped swim a great deal in re-focusing on what is at hand.
Eyesoftheworld- I can totally relate. Swim is 50, and left a cush gov. job making good $ in order to move to a safe place where there is a good network of recovery. I was in swiy shoes for the last 3.5 yrs. Swim had to take care of his mom, his girls, and deal with a disaterous second marriage that is now over (thank God). He pushed himself because he thought that he could not stop. What was everyone going to do should he stop working? Swim had a heart attack Jan 2008. Even that did not stop his feeling of "having to be there". Juggling, pushing going everywhere with his suboxone dose etc. Strangely, at the same time he wanted to die. To go to sleep and never wake up. Too much responsibility. Just wanted to climb in the forest and go to sleep. He began to realize that those he loved would be out of a dad/son/ex husband if he kept this up. Then a couple of months ago he went to the doctor for an ear ache. His blood pressure was 194/140. He explained that this was normal, that he functioned on high bp. The doctor (freaked out) sat him down and explained that worse than dying- he may have a stroke- and other's will have to care for him. No life insurance for anyone, no inheritance for the kids for school- Money will disappear very fast. This never occurred to him. After the Dr. appt. swim did not return to work. That was it. He just could not go on any longer. He set his mother up with a reverse mortgage. He has some retirement money-not much. He set his girls up and they are in college. He returned to Maine where there is a good network for recovery from opiates. He tried to stop suboxone first thing when he got here. He did not last 5 days- pathetic. Quit his job, then.... he can't stop. He felt hopeless. All this for naught he thought. He felt doomed.
Then he found the DF, and decided to register and become a member. He found that Missparkles had a lot of good advice, and she took the time to welcome him.
Then missparkles put things in perspective. It took her cat 3yrs in treatment and a very slow taper from methadone and she eventually got clean. It was a long process. She has shared that she has all sorts of health issues. Yet Missparkles is studying English Lit. She may want to become a therapist. Missparkles is around swims age, and she is full of hope and desire to participate in life.
This is great inspiration. I think what I am trying to say is- I am hearing from people here that want off- that it is one step at a time. Time is precious. There are solutions.
Maybe swim did not stop taking sub when he had hoped. But he has gone from feeling like a total failure and thinking he will have to be on maintenance the rest of his life- to realizing that this is pretty much normal, and to stabilize, and settle back in Maine first, get connected with the right people. Keep at his minimum dose. Stabilize, then listen to the doc (find a good doc) and taper and maximize the chances of success using DF, Richards PAWS review on another thread, counseling for my anxiety, and a good long term outpatient, and even if necessary, and can afford it, which is not likely- inpatient. Whatever time it takes, whatever it takes. I do not have to rush, and project disaster.
Whatever he is comfortable with, because he is easily spooked because of his anxiety.
DF is wonderful for this.
Thank you everyone.
I do not have a quote- but when I wake up- every morning I wake up in terror. Then I say to myself- "you never know who is going to pop into your life today". There may be someone that reaches out and says the right thing and makes all the difference in the world. In my experience, when I am seeking good, very very good people come my way.