MDMA/Ecstasy and OCD

[Kashinoda]

SWIM's younger brother has pretty severe OCD for a while now. SWIM has been taking pills on and off for about a year and now his brother wants to try one.

SWIM wants to be responsible but also isn't setting an example and his brother is of adult age any way.

It did occur to SWIM that one of the main symptoms of OCD is serotonin deficiency and this would be extremely affected by the use of MDMA/Ecstasy. However SWIM wonders if this effect could be positive, and in fact probably is. SWIM found some studies involving MDMA and OCD before (MDMA as therapy/solution) but can not find them any more.

SWIM is now wondering if any one has any experiences or information (He’s tried google with little avail) on this.

Thanks

[aBakes]

SWIM would never be the one to give his younger brother rolls. and if what SWIY says about OCD is true, SWIM doubts it would be a good idea

[ihavequestions]

swim has OCD but hasnt tried MDMA. anxiety disorders are more behvioral and are not related to seritonin deficiancies as commonly beleives. this was started with the whole "antidepressants work" stuff. actualy anxiety are behvioral conditions and is linked to the hippocampus(sp?) and the amygdala.

as for using MDMA for OCD it is probably safe. thw worst anxiety can produce is a massive panic attack but they cant hurt or kill so technicaly speaking he should be fine. the reason OCD would respond well is because MDMA could open to perspectives in which it could help him break his OCD cycles and break that chain reaction behavior and thoughts that accompany's OCD and related anxiety disorders.

keep in mind however that there is a chance this wont work for him and he might get nervous before trying it plus the stimulant effects of MDMA might send him into a total panic resulting in a bad night. so it realy depends. if he realy thinks he can try it then let him. but the MDMA should be of a reliable source. not a pill cut with an RC that could trip him out or meth which would just stimulate him and freak him out as well.

[Panthers007]

In my experience in dealing with such, OCD's are the culmination of repressed and traumatic experiences. The person blocks the experience - due to defense mechanisms - and it manifests itself through an OCD. Or something else.

SSRI's treat a chemical situation that, once again in my opinion/experience, is the manifestation of the underlying condition. It's a case of which came first: The chicken or the egg? Did the serotonin levels cause the OCD? Or did the OCD (and underlying causative factors) create the serotonin levels?

I doubt MDMA could cause any harm in these situations. I'd be more inclined to ask the subject if they were taking an SSRI anti-depressant. If yes - then the MDMA would have little effect aside from being a stimulant. If the subject were free of SSRI's and were willing to go "deep-sea diving" for the root-cause of their OCD - MDMA might prove to be the magic-bullet.

[ihavequestions]

Originally Posted by Panthers007

In my experience in dealing with such, OCD's are the culmination of repressed and traumatic experiences. The person blocks the experience - due to defense mechanisms - and it manifests itself through an OCD. Or something else.

this is sometimes the case and yes repressing them can absolutely trigger OCD behaviors. but there are also alot of people who develop it for no reason often in response to anxious situation in which they dont know how to cope so they invent rituals to make them feel safer. but often times it is simply bad habits. anxious habits. eventualy when a person gives into these habits it spins out of control into constant axiety with perpetual paranoid and irrational thoughts that never seem to end. thats why OCD and anxiety disorders are treated so well with cognitive behavioral therapy. which reminds swim he has to call to find one this week

[Panthers007]

Originally Posted by ihavequestions

this is sometimes the case and yes repressing them can absolutely trigger OCD behaviors. but there are also alot of people who develop it for no reason often in response to anxious situation in which they dont know how to cope so they invent rituals to make them feel safer.

This is exactly what I am saying above: No known reason to the subject. But it didn't likely come into existence just for shits & giggles. There is something going on here, but you don't know what it is. Do you - Mr. Jones?

Bad Habits? Sounds a bit judgmental. Cognitive therapy? Sounds like a guilt-riddled bandage. People have anxiety attacks for a reason - often not related to the situation at hand. Otherwise it would not be called an anxiety attack - it would be a natural response to a dangerous situation. And there to help protect the person. It's when it's out of place for the situation that it presents a question.

[spacelord]

What about MDMA's stimulant effects, like stereotypical behaviour? Could it even cause anxiety? Dunno, but OCD sufferers are much more prone to get anxious about small physical changes which certainly can happen when consuming stimulants. Maybe shrooms may be worth a try. But this depends on the subject - obiously.

[Pretty_Diamonds]

Have SWIY try half a pill first or something.

[Powder_Reality]

SWIM has OCD and is a semi-regular user of MDMA (that is, he usually indulges a couple of times a year or so). In his experience, MDMA does not exasperate his symptoms or anxiety, in fact it temporarily alleviates his symptoms for the duration of the experience. SWIM thinks it would be very hard to focus on obsessions while under the influence of MDMA, it's just too easy to get distracted by just about anything (the empathy, the euphoria, the people around him, etc.).

However, SWIY's brother must be prepared to deal with the depression that can follow the experience. SWIM always makes sure to take 5-HTP and his other chosen vitamins after the night is over, and it seems to help. Having a benzo of some sort also makes the next day a little easier. But be careful, SWIM can vouch for the fact that anxious individuals or OCD'ers can sometimes find benzos a little too enjoyable. SWIY's brother most definitely does not want a benzo addiction.

So in SWIM's opinion, the MDMA experience would probably not exasperate SWIY's brother's OCD symptoms, but they may feel more anxious or have an increase in symptoms for a few days or so afterwards. MDMA is not something that they should be doing on a regular basis (in fact, it's not something that anybody should be doing on a regular basis). There is some evidence that MDMA may help to treat OCD, but it would have to be done under the guided supervision of a trained psychotherapist. More research is needed to be done on this subject; but as of right now, it appears that PTSD is the disorder that can be most helped with MDMA-assisted therapy.

Spacelord, interesting that you should bring up psilocybin in this thread, as psilocybin is the psychedelic compound that has been most shown to alleviate OCD symptoms. There's been quite a bit of research done on treating OCD with psilocybin; however, I'm pretty sure that in most cases it was only a temporary reduction in symptoms (say a couple weeks or so, maybe a month). There's also a bit of anecdotal evidence of people who noticed a significant reduction in their OCD symptoms after ingesting mushrooms. Once again, in order for this type of therapy to be truly effective, it would be advised that it be done under the guided supervision of a trained professional. It shouldn't be expected that SWIY can simply eat a capsule of MDMA or eat a few grams of mushrooms and be cured. On the flip side, the mushroom experience can be very unpleasant for an anxious or obsessive person. Although SWIM has not indulged too many times, his amount of bad mushroom trips far outweigh the amount of enjoyable trips he has had. However, he will admit that he felt quite clear and happy the week following his last good trip.

Of course, SWIM must slap his disclaimer on this post: all of the above experiences regarding mushroom and MDMA use is strictly how these chemicals affected SWIM. SWIY or SWIY's brother may not have the exact same experiences as he did. These are simply anecdotal experiences that may help SWIY get a better idea about how these chemicals affect one person who has OCD.

On a side note, SWIM used to be prescribed a few different antidepressants for his OCD, but he stopped taking them a long time ago and feels much better without them. He has achieved some pretty great results with cognitive behavioural therapy, much better than he did with prescription medications. Although SWIM acknowledges the fact that SSRI's and other antidepressants may be truly beneficial for a small number of people, he maintains a consistent opposition to treating general anxiety and anxiety disorders with them. In his opinion, there are much better ways to treat such disorders that don't involve taking antidepressant medications.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Great thought out, response.
	great post

[medievil]

the biggest help from SWIM's ocd was mdma

[peter22]

warning: Dont Use Recreational Drugs To Try And Treat Ocd- Ecstacy Made My Ocd Come Back And Made It Worse!




peter22 added 4 Minutes and 0 Seconds later...

trust me, just dont use drugs especially ecstasy/mdma

peter22 added 46 Minutes and 47 Seconds later...

Trust me there is also scientific evidence to back up the dangerous effects of the drug on ocd

peter22 added 3 Minutes and 57 Seconds later...

stick to conventional treatment ie anti depressents, cog therapy etc p.s. sorry for the fragmented messages

[Panthers007]

Would you please provide links to articles showing this? "Trust me" doesn't go to far in science and/or psychology.

[medievil]

its probebly differend for each person wheter mdma could make it whorse or not, maybe start experimenting with low doses with long breaks between every roll

[ihavequestions]

Originally Posted by peter22

warning: Dont Use Recreational Drugs To Try And Treat Ocd- Ecstacy Made My Ocd Come Back And Made It Worse!


trust me, just dont use drugs especially ecstasy/mdma


Trust me there is also scientific evidence to back up the dangerous effects of the drug on ocd


stick to conventional treatment ie anti depressents, cog therapy etc p.s. sorry for the fragmented messages

if there is no scientific or psychological evidence then why should we beleive it? swim figures that since MDMA has been shown to be effective and safe for those suffering from PTSD which leaves a person EXTREMELY fragile mentaly and emotionaly then it should be safe for something like an anxiety disorder like OCD. it sounds like swiy got a bad roll and brought back anxious thoughts and feelings. swiy also sound pretty biased against not only MDMA but drugs in general.

[HippieMama]

SWIM has had OCD for many, many years and never had any difficulty with MDMA. A temporary reduction of symptoms while using it but no real longterm improvement. However, SWIM once completely got rid of her OCD for several years after using psychedelics. (Specifically baby Hawian woodrose and morning glory seeds.) So SWIM's personal experence suggests that MDMA isn't likely to be a cure but probably wouldn't do any harm either. Still, as always, I would suggest SWIY proceed with caution.

[troolboy]

Swim has had sever ocd his entire life and on one occasion swim took almost 7/10th of molly throughout the entire night, it made his ocd much worse for almost 3 months, swim never knew this sort of thing happened to other people

[DruMDMAndBass]

SWIM also has mild OCD, swim sometimes has a twitch in his eye, nothing major but swim finds MDMA dosent really make any difference to his OCD, sometimes when on a comedown he does it more but i think thats more likely to be because hes tired, as when hes tried it worsens slightly whether MDMA has been ingested or not!..