Nature

[Hyperreal]

Whyis it that people rever nature so much? There seems to be an unquestioned dictum going around that what is natural is therefore good. People think that natural drugs or natural medicine or natural food is necessarily safer than artificial ones. This attitude really puzzles me, because there are obviously thousands upon thousands of naturally occuring poisons and hazards. Furthermore, ingesting a plant or herb means taking an unknown mixture of different compounds innto your body, whereas if you take a(legitimately) manufactured pill, at least you know what you're getting.


Nature is haphazard, random and without design. Everything that is artificial exists for a reason, is designed to a certain end, and serves its purposes as best we can make it.


Perhaps the reverence for nature which is such an intrinsic part of modern convential morality is simply a hangover from religious times, born of a sort of existential fear of being without cosmic or divine authority.


Check this out: http://eserver.org/books/intentions/...-of-lying.html


Anyone care to comment?

[sunyata]

Like I've allways said to my "natural drugs only" friends, if youdefine organic as morenatural( a useless word in my opinion) than synthetic, you have separated man from nature.Why is it that when a tree absorbs light to produce oxygen, this is regarded as natural, but if a man makes something in a laboratory, it is not natural? Everything that exists on this planet comes from nature, we may have modified it or altered it, but that's the same thing the plant does with light, water and all the other stuff it uses to make oxygen.If a comet crashed into the earth and killed all life, would not that be natural?


Organic things are not essentially better than synthetic things, northe other way around. Appropriate use of them is what makes them good, and good is nat a quality inherent in the object itself, it's a value you place upon it.


Besides, what is defined as natural varies from person to person, some heavy-metal enthusiasts I've met regard an el-gitar as natural, despite the fact they don't growanywhere in nature.


Maybe this makes no sense, I'ma little tiredand out of good explanations.


By the way, you say: "Nature is haphazard, random and without design." that is not necessarily true, it may just be too complex for us to grasp.


I love nature simply because it makes me happy to be in it, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying a man-madepiece of music, or a good movie.

[Stingray_313]

I think this sence comes from the thought about tampering and such.
When we think of a plant (considering we KNOW what the plant is)
growing in nature, we think of it as un-messed-with. That only the sun,
and rain, and soil has influenced its growth and that it is pure and
clean. When we think of man-made-drugs, many people think they are
loaded with un-necessary chemicals and dangers. Also, people picture
the labs they are made in, full of dangerous chemicals, and figure that
the drugs are dangerous and impure. Its just that sort of idealisim
that makes people afraid of those drugs.



Im not saying that natural drugs are safer/purer then manufactured
ones, im just saying that the general consencus is that they are.

[glomp]

i agree... just because something's natural, doesn't mean it's safe... i mean go to a florist and make a meal out of the first plant you see and i'm sure your stomach will agree too


i'm all for synthetic things... i mean, if they weren't any good, then why the hell would we want to make them

[Hyperreal]

Wow, I'm surprised. Normally, when I express this view, I receive a flurry of heated disagreement. I suppose people on this board are less likely to follow the herd morality.

[Woodman]

Hyperreal,

Anything taken to the extreme can become an
obsession, whether its organic substances,
homeopathic remedies, or recreational drug use.

I think what you are describing in your topic post is a
societal trend, a "fad" if you will.

Fads seem to come and go, but the truth is they
never really end, they just diminish to where you hear
little or nothing about them until someone
popularizes them again.

It might be just me, but this "natural" fad does seem
to be a bit more resilient than many others that seem
to come and go.

[Peace_Frog]

To say that things in nature are either good or bad is irrelevant. Good and bad are just words, in nature everything exists as part of an equilibrium.


You can't label things that are natural as good or evil. You have to assume that there is a specific reason that it exists and use it for its intended purpose. For example, coca plants grew in high alltitudes. Chewing the leaves relieves symptoms of oxygen deprivation and acts as a mild stimulant. The low cocaine content of the plant also acts as a pesticide.


Man however is self aware and has free will.Having these qualities leads to inherrent evils that no one is without. Man takes an acre of coca plants andextracts a kg of pure cocaine. This substance is no longer part of the equilibrium of nature, it is a man made substance to fulfill needs of greed and desire(lust).


I personally only use drugs that occur in nature. I trust the equilibrium of nature more than imperfect judgement of man.

[Phungushead]

I think part of the reason that people think natural things are
"better" is kind of an unconscious psychological thing that starts at a
young age. Think about what little kids are taught in school:
stuff like "nature is good and we have to protect it" and "pollution
and chemicals hurt the environment and that's bad"... It continues as
you get older - planting trees, cleaning up parks, and other things
like that. All the "natural" vitamins and other supplements in
the pharmacy aisle, designed to improve your health. Nature
provides us with food (organic or not). Also, like someone else
said, nature itself has no free will. It
cannot knowingly do anything bad to you (disregarding spiritual beings
for this case), so you don't really hate or have a grudge against
nature itself (well maybe in extreme cases, but still). Not to
mention that nature is just pretty cool in general. It's all an association type thing.



I'm not saying that chemicals/synthetics are bad here. There are
so many things that wouldn't be possible without chemical (assuming
we're talking legal, used medicinally) drugs... so many deaths. A
lot of chemical drugs are just modified/intensified natural
ingredients, so some of it is probably the thought of tampering, and
how many people would just rather not ingest something that may be
loaded with unnecessary and potentially dangerous substances.



Not to say that natural things are always safer, but if you look at
every known plant and every known chemical and what they can do to
you...

[Hyperreal]

You have to assume that there is a specific reason that it exists and use it for its intended purpose.

No you don't. Organisms are created by Darwinian evolution, which is driven by random genetic mutation. You really need something better than an assumption if you're going to fly in the face of the facts. Plenty of things in nature have no specific purpose.

I personally only use drugs that occur in nature. I trust the equilibrium of nature more than imperfect judgement of man.

Imperfect judgement is preferable to no judgement at all. The claim that natural drugs are safer simply doesn't stand up to the facts. It is manifestly false. Syrian Rue or fly agaric or tobacco or the anticholinergic deliriants have far more dangers associated with them than LSD or MDMA.

. Think about what little kids are taught in school: stuff like "nature is good and we have to protect it"

Exactly: this reverence for nature is a deeply ingrained part of conventional morality. I'd like to hear any opinions on why that is. It may be to do with what J.P. Sartre said - that man is afraid to consider himself truly free and therefore seeks to invent cosmic orders greater than himself to tell him what is right and wrong. Since God died, we need another overoraching order to rule over us, so weturn to nature. It's essentially a hangover from more religious times.

[brooklyn718]

I agree some of the most potent poisons are made by plants. Plants make these chemicals for protection!! Ricin in the tropical Castor Bean plant can wipe out a whole community, 1-2 plants worth!!!

[billyloner]

its irrelevant whether a drug is synthetic in origin or natural. the effects of every drug are natural. do any of them make your brain do things it cannot do? no. they may make your brain act in a way it would not act without taking a particular substance, but a way your brain is incapable of working? no, of course not.


we should revere nature because we are part of nature. we are no different to any other part. we try and con ourselves into thinking we are special, and we are. equally as special as every other part of nature.