Never recovered (14mths on)

[Rach]

I'm not here to launch an attack on on every narcotic known to man. I'm very much an advocate of free choice. I have friends and family that have used and continue to experiment with class A's with no ill consequences.I just want to recount my own personal experience of the past year, in terms of the breakdown that I experienced in the 'Post E crash'after using ecstasy at levels that most would describe as recreational in the UK.
I posted on Erowid in Feb 2004 under the author name of numbgirl.I realise that my situation is uncommon amongst X users.I want to emphasise fully that my life was happy and fairly tame in comparison to other users until 1st Jan 04. I took a few ecstasy tablets and had a great night out, all was well and it was a fantastic night,until the next day that is.Basically my perception after this, visually at least never returned to normal.
My body no longer feels like my own,ie. I see my arms and they have no sense of 'belonging' to my body any longer. I have always been considered to those around me as good looking or stand out attractive. Now all I do is look in the mirror and see a face, not mine or anyone familiar, I have no pride anymore.Just a face. It is fucking horrific. If anyone out there doubts my authenticity read my previous posts dating a year back.I just wish that I'd been more informed and I'd never have touched the shit.Edited by: Rach

[tweakerfrommars]

It uh, probably wasn't MDMA.

[Toria]

well..I have a few comments to make, and they will be raw because I don't see any need to sugar coat it. First of all, for your first, second, or even third time rolling "a few pills" isn't necessarily a recreational dose. That was your first mistake. Second, yeah it probably wasn't MDMA, but ALSO, there is no drug on earth that has been said to make someone so detached from themselves, as you say you are. I find it much more likely that you unlocked some kind of mental disorder, schizophrenia perhaps? If you had any sense in you at all, you'd have gone to doctors by now and asked them what's the deal. Quit bitching on message boards and go DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.


On a last note, maybe you should try to find some real MDMA, maybe it'll knock you back in. The sci-fi nerd in me finds that logical.

[Rach]

Toria,
Since I'm not suffering from paranoid delusions I find it highly unlikely that I'm suffering from Schizophrenia.Also I trust you have no medical qualifications that would make you authority on the subject of mental illness?.Its far more likely that I've triggered panic disorder(which I did not have before) which has similar symptoms. Admittedly my symptoms seemed rather more intense this morning when I wrote my original post at 5am whilst still drunk. However in the light of day and sober I still at times feel completely spaced out and generally weird.
Also if you refer back to my comment about dosage I didn't actually say that I thought this level was recreational. I said that 'most people in the UK' would consider this as nothing out of the ordinary.It is not uncommon for people to take 10+ pills over here as they are so cheap.I never said the amount that I took was sensible, far from it. I know I was stupid as an inexperienced user.
As for the 'bitching' comment, isn't this what this particular message boards is for.To present a balanced view of the pros and cons of recreational drugs.Nobody reacts to any drug in the same way, I was merely recounting my own personal experience. No street drug is 100% safe.I can't say what was in my pills but I took the chance anyway without testing (as unfortunately most do) in the good faith that I was taking MDMA.
You said ,'There is no drug on earth that has been said to make someone so detatched from themselves'
Not true, just look at the psychoactive LSD, are you saying that depersonalisation and derealisation are not rare but serious disorders that can spring from usage.If so I suggest you research HPPD and look at the symptoms before you come on here and accuse me of bitching. To suggest that there are no repercussions from taking class A's is naive at the least. Most people have a great time and get away with it. If you are one of them than you're lucky, good on you. I totally enjoyed my experiences on E.I'm not completely slagging the drug, just what its done to me personally.
Sorry to get pissy but you don't know what you are talking about Toria.Your last post was tantamount to saying 'I told you so' which at this late stage was, erm, very helpful.
Edited by: Rach

[Tony Blair]

All anyone can say is that they are real sorry to hear that. I definitely am.

[Tony Blair]

FWIW, my perception has never been the same.. In fact the first couple
of weeks after my first experience was a bit wierd, a bit hard to get
used to.



I think that once you've looked "through" the window, its hard to forget what you saw.



I am sorry about your experience... only one thing can make it better, that one thing is *attitude*.



All the best

[Rach]

Yeah Megalev, you're totally right with the attitude comment. I do generally try and get on with things ie work and keep in touch with mates etc. I cope pretty well if I'm honest, I just get a bit emotionally het up when I'm hammered if you know what I mean. My original post was more me venting my frustration at getting myself in this situation in the first place. Cheers for your words of wisdom though, they're appreciated.

[Toria]

Originally Posted by Rach

Toria,
Since I'm not suffering from paranoid delusions I find it highly unlikely that I'm suffering from Schizophrenia.Also I trust you have no medical qualifications that would make you authority on the subject of mental illness?.Its far more likely that I've triggered panic disorder(which I did not have before) which has similar symptoms. Admittedly my symptoms seemed rather more intense this morning when I wrote my original post at 5am whilst still drunk. However in the light of day and sober I still at times feel completely spaced out and generally weird.
Also if you refer back to my comment about dosage I didn't actually say that I thought this level was recreational. I said that 'most people in the UK' would consider this as nothing out of the ordinary.It is not uncommon for people to take 10+ pills over here as they are so cheap.I never said the amount that I took was sensible, far from it. I know I was stupid as an inexperienced user.
As for the 'bitching' comment, isn't this what this particular message boards is for.To present a balanced view of the pros and cons of recreational drugs.Nobody reacts to any drug in the same way, I was merely recounting my own personal experience. No street drug is 100% safe.I can't say what was in my pills but I took the chance anyway without testing (as unfortunately most do) in the good faith that I was taking MDMA.
You said ,'There is no drug on earth that has been said to make someone so detatched from themselves'
Not true, just look at the psychoactive LSD, are you saying that depersonalisation and derealisation are not rare but serious disorders that can spring from usage.If so I suggest you research HPPD and look at the symptoms before you come on here and accuse me of bitching. To suggest that there are no repercussions from taking class A's is naive at the least. Most people have a great time and get away with it. If you are one of them than you're lucky, good on you. I totally enjoyed my experiences on E.I'm not completely slagging the drug, just what its done to me personally.
Sorry to get pissy but you don't know what you are talking about Toria.Your last post was tantamount to saying 'I told you so' which at this late stage was, erm, very helpful.

I guess you glazed over the fact that I used words like "maybe". Of course I don't have mental qualifications, but all the same I have to write to guess. You didn't say you thought this dose was recreational, huh? THEN WHY DID YOU TAKE THAT DOSAGE?! You didn't even say what you thought was a recreation dose, sounds like you're just listening to everyone around you instead of making your own decsision. Yeah, people do date 10+ pills here, but it usually results from tolerance and trying to chase the perfect high.You have not changed my opinion - afirst time user taking a "few" is just not smart. Sure, everyone is free to bitch here, but wouldn't it be a LOT MORE USEFUL to go to a DOCTOR and see what can be done? Stop throwing a pity party for yourself about somehting that maybe can be cured! You've wasted 14 months just feeling bad for yourself. Go do something REAL about it. My comment about no drugs making you feel as you do meant that sure, during the high and for the next few days srue, lots of drugs can make you feel like that. But as a permanent effect, no one has reported this but you. Lots of people have one or two aspects of their personality and outlook on life altered, but not so much that they do not recognize themselves. Before you go and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, you should really go to a doctor so they can tell you what is wrong. Otherwise you, too, have no idea what you're talking about.

[Rach]

Toria,
Firstly, may I cordially invite you to go and fuck yourself .Read Erowid, you may well find posts from others with problems such as mine.Also as I suggested earlier, lest you ignored my post completely(ie, my quote about my consumption on that night being more than a little stupid), you could perhaps research HPPD (hallucinogenic persistent perceptual disorder) and you will find very real accounts of long lasting and sometimes permanent visual effects of using hallucinogens.I am not the'only one' reporting problems of this nature.Also I have visited many doctors and find myself in the situation that I am far more well informed about the effects of substance induced anxiety/depression than they are.Do I want to be a guinea pig for every SSRI medication going?, the answer to that is no.
Also if I "maybe" appeared slightly unhinged in my earlier post, you have now well and truly assured me that I am very much 'compos mentis' in comparison to your own very ignorant mental status. You don't need any qualifications, you're a fully fledged mentalist in my opinion and are therefore well equipped to give advice to other fuck ups such as myself.
All the best Edited by: Rach

[Toria]

Perhaps your condition also made you become a raving bitch? My first post was nopt meant to be bitchy, it was meant to be my honest opinion. You took it to the next level by getting all defensive, so then I simply explained myself. THIS IS JUST A MESSAGE BOARD, GET OVER IT. Oh and btw, MDMA is not a hallucinogen, it's a psychedelic.

[Rach]

"Raving bitch", classic statement, thats how I got myself into this situation.That was a very apt.summary to be honest Toria.
Sorry to be picky but you are once again mistaken, although synthetic MDMA can be classed as a hallucinogen.
This is a message board, on that score you are correct. Forgive me when I'm slightly defensive whan you proclaim to be knowledgeable on a subject that you know nothing of.

[daeron]

hey Rach,Toria would you be so kind to stop arguing for a moment,insulting each other is completely useless unless your goal is to look like ego trippin idiots(which by the way im sure you are not).


First of all Rach im very sorry to hear what happened to you,i really am.


second,there only is synthetic mdma,and it is a psychodelic phenethylamine,an entactogen not a hallucinogen.Also there are no records that mdma can cause HPPD,its more a lsd related issue and again very rare.


3yrs ago ive met a person who had told me a simmilar story.She had taken 3pills which have later been found to contain MDA/2cb no mdma.


I have read your erowid report,and before i say anything else i would like if you could answer a few questions:


-could you describe in more detail your trip,any visuals,the duration,after effects,etc..anything that you can remember


-you said that youve visited a doctor,but you didnt say what were his findings


-did during your roll anything(relevant) happen that could havecaused/infulenced the aftermath(eg. your relation with your ex..)


-and could you describe exactly what is the main problem,ego loss?anxiety?depression?


i really would like to help if i can

[Rach]

MDMA can be classified as an hallucinogen, definately.
For background info,my trip at the time was very pleasant, fantastic in fact, I have a very amicable relationship with my ex partner also, he's my best mate funnily enough. There was no residual depression or anxiety that could be heightened by the experience in any way.
My main problems seem to be related to memory and visual/perceptual changes that occured in the days following.Perhaps other people that experiment also experience similar effects but I for one have found that they have impacted on my day to day life to a more serious extent.
My doctor initially diagnosed anxiety.I did try Prozac for about two months but found that it aggravated my symptoms.From months of research there seems to be a definate correlation between the onset of anxiety/panic disorder and ecstasy usage. As a result I feel slightly depressed that I'm not quite the same self asssured person that I once was (despite my apparent ease at trading insults!). Sorry everyone.

[daeron]

well im not sure it will help but i can offer only my point of view.


mdmaor no mdma whats done is done,there is no turning back.My advice is to aggressively confront your problem.Dont let it control your life!Find time to get to know yourself,to classify your problem,inch by inch.Feeling like a empty shell-no you dont!cos youre not...your face is Your face,feel beautiful cos you are..nourish your pride,and fuckit even be arrogant!The only thing stopping you from feeling like your old self is you,fuck that cant be too hard to beat,cant it?When you feel depressed keep yourself busy,do the things that you enjoy,find your unfulfilled dreams and realize them,find the things/places/people that make you happy...


also workout,have lots of sex,and eat a lot of 5htp rich food(like bananas) to keep your endorphin/serotonin levels high...hey,if it works insult the living hell of everyone here,shit im open for insults 24/7...no use sitting back and waiting for the problem to go away(bytheway fuck all them so easily-prozac-prescribing-lameass doctors)


i have had my share of depressions so feel free to pm me any time you want to talk,feeldown or when you just want to insult someones brains out


Edited by: daeron

[Tony Blair]

This aint a thread to have this rucuss about.. It happened.



It happened alright.

[shneddi]

was about to day what dearon said. i think it could be like what megalev said , a change of perception maybe you realise more things about the world and this is depressing ? i dunno.


im sorry to hear about this , nver heard anything like it beforeEdited by: shneddi

[zipoo]

sorry about what happened. your first post sounded a lot worse than the follow up once and a bit of a rant. you should expect people to react defensivly to it. it sounds like you do place your problemas happiningat thetime you took a certain chemical,which wouldcause one tocorrolate the two, but are you sure you know what you took?


and perpahs you should get an mriof your brainit might be something detectable.

[junglist]

Toria, first of all I am disgusted with your replies. How the hell do you know what this person is going through, and who the hell are you to judge whether what she took was MDMA or not? yes its a message board but a bit of compassion wouldn't go a miss.


I have had very similar effects since taking e. I am now really depressed and feel emotianlly numb. this built up over a 6 week period after the last time I took ecstasy. I am now taking anti-depressants in the hope that it will bring back the real me but at the moment I feel like a different person. All of this for a few good nights out - I cant believe I have been so stupid and naive.


fuck drugs

[Toria]

oh boy....


Look. I can say whatever I want to. I stated my opinions and I will not take them back or apologize cause I still meant what I said. You all are getting all bent outta shape for nothing. THIS IS AN ONLINE MESSAGE BOARD. I am only a virtual image of text to you. Why must you get so damn involved?


I'm sorry your guys' bodies/mind can't handle drugs...you're missing some good times!

[VIKETIME]

Toria, its really rude to talk down someones experience like you know everything about the drug and it can never happen to you. "there is no drug on earth that has been said to make someone so detached from themselves, as you say you are." that statement right there shows how much you know. how about DXM after a few yrs of use? lsd can do it too. so can many others believe it or not. you can state your opinions and say whatever you want..but what good does it do u to be a bitch to someone who is going through something like this already? i dont see your motive.


-VIKE

[whatwhybecause]

i agree with viketime here - there is no need to make such an attack. whether it was mdma or not makes no difference; obviously what this person took was promoted to her as mdma, therefore the messages are perfectly valid and applicable to this message board.


also, like viketime said, dxm and lsd can very much take you down the path that this person describes if used over a lengthy period of time.


just because something is unlikely does not mean it is impossible..

[glomp]

Rach,this story makes me sad... i know you're not looking for pity, but i can't help but have some here for you...


same thing happened to me after my first time... i had mild problems with vision - i remember i had the same visual accuity as before, but my image interpolation/processing was a bit off...it's kinda like having a lot of blind spots, you look at something and it appears complete but somehow it's not... other than that, for months afterwards, i had some hiccups with memory, confusion, and general mental sluggishness


at the time, i looked up a lot of stuff on my symptoms (funnily enough, this got me interested in the field of biomedical science)... the two possibilities i came up with was brain damage from excessive activity over long periods, or amphetamine induced psychosis... i ruled out paranoia, i've experienced that elsewhere...


anyhow, i don't even remember what 'normal' felt like before it happened so i don't miss itanymore or at least not as much as i used to...the brain doesn't grow much after the age of three, so it has to adapt to damage rather than repair it so i'm hoping i've adapted seeing as i don't have the memory of feeling normal to compare my current situation to... it certainly is different though...

[shneddi]

toria i thought somone who has taken E would show some empathy towards others..............havent you learnt anything??

[TypicalDream]

I'd believe it, I know people of the likes. Though unlike this case, they were slightly depressed to begin with, after using though, their enlightened senses brought them up, and now they're worst off than they were because they're only happy in a situation where they can roll and have a good time. Like they've lost their own image to adopt one they aren't happy with, and it eats em up, so I try to keep em busy without making em feel like they did something so wrong. After they come down though, they get depressed again, I think its better to use wisely, get some hobbies with people that worry about you and will look out for you, and cut back if ya feel like that. Granted thats not your case, but I've just noticed sometimes you gotta look out for yourself and your friends first. Even if that means leaving E be for a bit...

[antigenesis]

Hey Rach, I'm just wondering if you know whether or not anybody else
who took the same pills had a regular E experience/after effects, also
(i have no idea how true this is) from what I understand HPPD is not
really an MDMA related thing so possibly the pill was MDMA with a
little 2C-B thrown in there, which could be a perfectly viable basis
for HPPD. Lastly, I totally understand why you aren't rushing to
doctors, who are all too happy to slap you (and anybody else they can
get their hands on) with experimental meds. I wish you the best
of luck in recovery.