Drug info - Molecules of LSD

[Lobsang]

SWIM always wondered how such a small amout of something like LSD can cause such a major reaction in the brain. SWIM has always thought it is some cascade reaction that starts small and ends up big. But SWIm was doing a little research and was wondering how many molecules of LSD are in a 100ug hit? SWIM simply assumed that there were not many. But in fact the calculation made by someone that there are 150 quadrillion molecules of LSD in a 100ug hit. Now SWIM does not know how many molecules it takes to trip off a neuron. But 150 quadrillion molecules of LSD is a VERY VERY big number. That many molecules has the potentiol to effect a lot of brain cells. So it is possible for something very very tiny to cause something very very big. SWIM found that interesting.

[RaverHippie]

one could calculate the molar mass of LSD and use simple stoichiometry to figure out the number of molecules. I might in a few minutes considering the level of my boredom.

[Lobsang]

one could calculate the molar mass of LSD and use simple stoichiometry to figure out the number of molecules. I might in a few minutes considering the level of my boredom.

https://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.php?ID=3083

[RaverHippie]

hah well done

I always love the tone the writers at erowid take with articles, I hadn't looked there in a while for things.

After re-reading the first post I skimmed it too quickly and thought that you were asking how to figure it out. Didn't catch that you were just stating an interesting tidbit, I'm getting too routine.

[Panthers007]

One slip of a foot on top of a mountain has set off avalanches that bury villages. For better or worse.

[Desertfox]

The question of how such small a dose reacts in the brain is still unanswered. compared with other drugs yeah lsd takes quadrillions of molecules but so do all the other drugs we take but for some reason for lsd you still need a lot less than for other chemicals that effect the brain. SWIM presumes that this has to do with LSD's complex and fragile structure. All of its atoms and electrons are in the perfect position to have the most profound effect on the nuerotransmitters of our ape brains. its like a key into the lock, some keys may work but are not truly the correct key. only one key was especially made for the lock. Our brains have evolved a certain way so when LSD enters our system it locks into our cell's plasma membranes very easily and intercalates with the DNA like no other, mainly due to its design and magnetic/eletrical attraction with our nuerotransmitters.


A suggested read is The Invisible Landscape by Terence Mckenna. He gives a very trippy theory on how psychedelics work in the human body. His fascination however focuses more on Psilocybin and DMT, rather than LSD

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Perfect answer and true...
	Very interesting!

[Lobsang]

The question of how such small a dose reacts in the brain is still unanswered. compared with other drugs yeah lsd takes quadrillions of molecules but so do all the other drugs we take but for some reason for lsd you still need a lot less than for other chemicals that effect the brain. SWIM presumes that this has to do with LSD's complex and fragile structure. All of its atoms and electrons are in the perfect position to have the most profound effect on the nuerotransmitters of our ape brains. its like a key into the lock, some keys may work but are not truly the correct key. only one key was especially made for the lock. Our brains have evolved a certain way so when LSD enters our system it locks into our cell's plasma membranes very easily and intercalates with the DNA like no other, mainly due to its design and magnetic/eletrical attraction with our nuerotransmitters.

That is a most excellent point. I would venture to prsume that in addition to that fact there is a cascade reaction of some type. Whereby a limited number of cells trip off more and more cells. Or something along these lines. I am almost also amazed that there can be drug testing to detect LSD in the system due to the small mass ingested.

[AquafinaOrbit]

If swim were to shoot 5 people in a row, he would not need 5 bullets but simply 1 powerful one. Maybe it is simply because SWIM is a bit tired right now but he is unable to understand why it is believed you must have more of something for it to effect many things.

[Lobsang]

Originally Posted by AquafinaOrbit

If swim were to shoot 5 people in a row, he would not need 5 bullets but simply 1 powerful one. Maybe it is simply because SWIM is a bit tired right now but he is unable to understand why it is believed you must have more of something for it to effect many things.

SWIM said "Whereby a limited number of cells trip off more and more cells. Or something along these lines. "

[RaverHippie]

It just clicked . Considering how neurons work, when one neuron gets excited enough it trips off an entire line of neurons at once, so if one neuron gets LSD'd it could trip off a whole line of them. That seems plausible.

[Lobsang]

Originally Posted by RaverHippie

It just clicked . Considering how neurons work, when one neuron gets excited enough it trips off an entire line of neurons at once, so if one neuron gets LSD'd it could trip off a whole line of them. That seems plausible.

Yes and the arguement becomes more convincing when one considers the small dose buit also the fact that the trip proceedes despit the fact that most of the drug is gone from the system.

[RaverHippie]

good point Dr., it seems like you've effectively hypothesized the method of action of LSD.

[Panthers007]

Ah! The old "Domino-Theory" reemerges from Southeast Asia and straight into the belly of the beast itself! Didi Mao! Didi Mao!

Dinky Dao.

[Desertfox]

a related thread swim posted on a few months ago can be found here:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45727

It is about a nuerologist Jack Cowan and his study on how psychedelics cause there characteristic visuals. Its not really on the subject of the method of action in the brain but fascinating nonetheless.

[Songcycle67]

Because of the quickness by which LSD leaves the actual brain and is metabolized by the body, and due to the fact that only a very small percentage (12%?--somewhere in that range) actually crosses the blood-brain barrier it has been suggested by many people (including Hoffmann in LSD: My Problem Child) that LSD is actually merely a catalyst for a reaction that is laying dormant under "normal" circumstances. Sort of like a battery in the brain, constantly storing the energies present in thought and form. When LSD is taken, this collection of various energies which has been charging for such and such an amount of time, is released all at once POW! Past memories, visions of familiar forms, visions from dreams, the "deja-vu" syndrome. All of it, under this theory, would be stored somewhere in the brain and a neuro-transmitter like LSD would release it.

The aforementioned exit times are the reason that scientists were sure very early on that LSD engendered an "authentic" experience, not just a drug-enduced haze.

In the study linked to above by Jack Cowan, his model of the cortex where visuals take place, when fed LSD would become over-excited. Neurons normally set in place to detect certain patterns or distance in the environment would be set off by other neurons (domino effect) which were originally triggered by the LSD. This results in the tripper being able to see and experience hexagonal patterns or even multi-tiered machines made of various kinds of "textures" wired into the visual network without even having his or her eyes open. LSD itself couldn't effect many neurons given the time it has in the brain. My personal view on this is that some initial neurons are fired which release the stored up "battery" of energies, which then do all the work. How could a trip be so personal without something like this going on? The natural chemistry in the brain itself, or the energies stored in that chemistry must play some role.

I do have a problem with the part of his theory wherein he basically boils all these complex interplays of energy down to: "It's just the innate tendency of the brain to make patterns when it goes unstable."

All of these words: brain, patterns, and unstable are completely vague terms. What is stable? Why don't we hallucinate and experience these energies when we drink so much alcohol that the brain becomes "unstable"?

Still, extremely interesting study.

[Shampoo]

5HT-2A receptors located in the neocortex are g-protein, metabatropic receptors whose activation by LSD results in a cascade event of protein messengers signaling a much more significant amount of secondary receptors. LSD also binds with a much higher affinity to 5HT-2A receptors than 5HT itself! It binds for a longer period, allowing more significant excitatory post-synaptic potentials to occur, making subsequent actions potentials easily induced, increasing overall activity in layer V cognitive areas as well as various visual cortices.

-will write more later....finishing paper right now.