Side effects - Brain flashes after use

[StateOfTrance]

Greetings,

Swim has been doing e for about 4 years on/off but had abit of a 3 mnth silly abuse time with e in 2006 popping about 15+ a week.

Swim noticed that after the use, excactly 3 days after when he becomes tired he gets struck by flash that "Best description as possible" comes from the spyn\ up to his brain and bang hes awake. This continusly happens until he falls asleep. Also it is possible to try not to wake up from it but than gets a feeling he could die.

This carrys on for about 3 days but with each day gradulay decreases.

It is hard to describe but it is quite scary and now after 1+ years and very rare use he has the same problem. Excactly 3 days after use, as soon as he gets just a little bit tired he gets this intense flash shot into his brain.

After a bit of research, the best swim has found something with adrenaline withdrawl or serotonin toxicity but non really do confirm this wierd after effect.

Has anyone else experienced this or has answers?



Kind regards

[Samadhi]

Swim has not felt this but strongly advises seeing a neurologist or doctor about this. MDMA (and whatever adulterants are floating around in pills nowadays) is still out with the jury as to the neurotoxicity of the substance, This sounds like a serious problem and swiy should seek advice from a doctor.

Staying away from ecstasy pills entirely would be this swimmers advice, if a heroin user starts seeing his arm falling off, he doesn't keep shooting most the time... most the time.

Swim has no idea what the medical term is for what swiy is experiencing but it sounds frightening.

[StateOfTrance]

Yeah thought so. Could it maybe be magnesium deficiency?

[Solinari]

Originally Posted by StateOfTrance

Greetings,

Swim has been doing e for about 4 years on/off but had abit of a 3 mnth silly abuse time with e in 2006 popping about 15+ a week.

Swim noticed that after the use, excactly 3 days after when he becomes tired he gets struck by flash that "Best description as possible" comes from the spyn\ up to his brain and bang hes awake. This continusly happens until he falls asleep. Also it is possible to try not to wake up from it but than gets a feeling he could die.

This carrys on for about 3 days but with each day gradulay decreases.

It is hard to describe but it is quite scary and now after 1+ years and very rare use he has the same problem. Excactly 3 days after use, as soon as he gets just a little bit tired he gets this intense flash shot into his brain.

After a bit of research, the best swim has found something with adrenaline withdrawl or serotonin toxicity but non really do confirm this wierd after effect.

Has anyone else experienced this or has answers?



Kind regards

I get this sometimes when i try to sleep, usually when i can't sleep but really need too. In my case ecstasy isn't an issue, it hasn't been used in some time, so it isn't because of that, at least for me.

Never the less, i was prescribed venlafaxine and i got what could only be described as brain zaps, or brain shocks, i would get them during the day and at night. I have also had this thing that can only be described as a huge surge through my head when trying to sleep, very unnerving. To be honest i am unsure if this happened while taking venlafaxine or not, i have not been prescribed it for some time but i have had it happen recently but very occasionally. I think the most recent time was due to taking too many diazepam for too long and stopping use abruptly.

I have told my doctor about this but he just sort of dismisses it and can't explain it. I have seen it been talked about in relation to venlafaxine, so it could definitely be related to serotonin.

[StateOfTrance]

Swims doctor pretty much said the same to me.. Wasnt interested in finding out what it could be.

However swim was rolling last weekend and three days later as usual had the flashes, went to get some magnasium tablets and e voila it stoped it. Now i am just interested to know what that is and how magnesium defficency can cause this

[Benga]

look into "hypnic jerks", a common side effect of stimulants.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnic_jerk
b

Reputation Comments on this post:

good link

[Solinari]

This brain flash, zap, shock or whatever can be slight, not painful but momentarily disorientating. For me i haven't been moved by this shock thing but rather got it when moving.

There is another link there Exploding head syndrome, i have definitely had that before, a few times. A huge thud like someone just whacked you on the head but with a heavy pillow or something cause as it says, there isn't any pain. I actually thinks this better described what happens in bed while trying to sleep, but for me there are two types. There is the sudden thud out of nowhere, then there is the charged shock, that's the only way i can describe it, it's fast as well just there seems to be a bit where it 'charges' then zaps through you. Both of these things are fast and we are talking milliseconds, it's just that the 'electric' one seems to whoosh through you, where as the thud is literally a slap on the head out of nowhere as if it isn't even a possibility because there is no one around to slap you.

I found the 'Brain Zaps' Wikipedia page, that pretty much sums it up. I am glad now i can at least say to my doctor, remember that shock thing i described, well there are Wikipedia pages, not exactly The Lancet or any other medical journal, but at least it's there and obviously experienced by a number of people.

[Pino]

Swim have this sometimes, when he slept too little and goes to bed (with or without stimulants). His girlfriend (clinic psychologist) explained to him, that it is his body relaxing, while his mind is still active. The relaxation of his muscles gives him a sensation of falling. As a reaction on this, he can tense his muscles and gives him a sensation of a shock.

The brainzap thing swim experienced after and during quite a heavy use of tramadol. Not too heavy luckily. Swim found some time to quit, when he started to hit the 400 mg daily border. He never got it with mdma. There was also some kind of sleep paralysis with the tramadol use. He just read on wikipedia it is a normal side-effect of serotogenic drugs. But a walk to the doctor never hurts with such a history of heavy mdma use.

[Panthers007]

The sensation of falling and/or flying goes back to the European "Witches" who would "Fly" on their broomsticks. The broomstick was an implement that would be used to apply the "Flying-Ointment" to the vaginal orifice or anus. One of the ingredients of this was Monkshood - Aconitum napellus - also called Wolfsbane. The main alkaloid, a deadly poison even in tiny amounts, is aconitine -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aconitine

This slows the heart-rate so dramatically, at sub-lethal (one hopes) doses, as to make one feel they are falling or flying through space.

So it may be that during a speed-crash, the heart goes through a similar change in rate when the body "crashes" after amphetamine use and is relaxed enough to enter a sleep-state. This is a theory - not a given. But quite possible. Sort of like that strange "kick" one gets just before going into a sound sleep and REM-state.

[qbarat2]

I've had this happen to me too, but it would usually happen the day after not 3 days later. I went through a long period of time (about 3 years) where all I did was E almost every weekend or every other weekend and I still occasionally do it. One time in particular I remember the next day I would get these intense flashes while I was trying to sleep. I remember once made me wake up from sleeping. The best way I can describe it was a sharp shock (almost like a quick flash of light with my eyes closed) that would cause me my body to jolt quickly and open my eyes. Of course after a few days it was gone and it has never happened again. It seemed to happen more with particular types of pills and on the times with higher than usual dosages such as 5-8 pills (per night).

[SpinKing]

Originally Posted by StateOfTrance

Greetings,

Swim has been doing e for about 4 years on/off but had abit of a 3 mnth silly abuse time with e in 2006 popping about 15+ a week.

Swim noticed that after the use, excactly 3 days after when he becomes tired he gets struck by flash that "Best description as possible" comes from the spyn\ up to his brain and bang hes awake. This continusly happens until he falls asleep. Also it is possible to try not to wake up from it but than gets a feeling he could die.

This carrys on for about 3 days but with each day gradulay decreases.

It is hard to describe but it is quite scary and now after 1+ years and very rare use he has the same problem. Excactly 3 days after use, as soon as he gets just a little bit tired he gets this intense flash shot into his brain.

After a bit of research, the best swim has found something with adrenaline withdrawl or serotonin toxicity but non really do confirm this wierd after effect.

Has anyone else experienced this or has answers?



Kind regards

Someone I know got that on his last few MDMAs, especially when taken both nights of weekend, also felt unexpectedly dizzy, like a short term vertigo, he informs me that this is a rather loathsome feeling. It is common to SSRI withdrawalers, maybe pills were laced with some?
Difficult to know what caused this initially, but later comedown suffered due to this shit's reoccurence.

[enquirewithin]

As I remember the reports in PIKAL and TIKHAL often mention this phenomenon, which could be called hypnagogic jerk, frequently. I can't remember off hand what Shulgin calls it, but he seems to expect it as a possible side effect of drugs.

My rabbit has experienced this since as long as he can remember, but it's not frightening, simply irritating if it stops him sleeping. It's not even necessarily drug related, but more frequent and intense after taking stimulants, perhaps. It may be common for those with who have an active hypnagogic life! Those times between sleep and wakefulness are interesting.

[Panthers007]

The "Fear" (of death) that comes with it for many people is the annoying part as reported to this researcher. The person/monkey/platypus fears should they drift fully into the sleep, they will never re-emerge. This is common and then it fires what's left of the body's adrenaline reserve: BANG!

Rest assured that the monkey will survive, and put it to bed. And take away it's "medicine" for a goodly while, eh?

[Benga]

Originally Posted by enquirewithin

As I remember the reports in PIKAL and TIKHAL often mention this phenomenon, which could be called hypnagogic jerk, frequently. I can't remember off hand what Shulgin calls it, but he seems to expect it as a possible side effect of drugs.

My rabbit has experienced this since as long as he can remember, but it's not frightening, simply irritating if it stops him sleeping. It's not even necessarily drug related, but more frequent and intense after taking stimulants, perhaps. It may be common for those with who have an active hypnagogic life! Those times between sleep and wakefulness are interesting.

yes, this is what I was mentioning in my previous post. Hypnagogic jerks are also called hypnic jerks, and the muscle spasm is also called a myoclonic twitch. it seems to fit the description quite well indeed

b

[enquirewithin]

Originally Posted by Benga

yes, this is what I was mentioning in my previous post. Hypnagogic jerks are also called hypnic jerks, and the muscle spasm is also called a myoclonic twitch. it seems to fit the description quite well indeed

b

I know, I was elaborating on your post-- or trying to. Hypnagogic jerk is easier for me to understand. Hypnic jerks, myclonic twichs, seem to affect 70% of the population. A related phenomena, the Exploding Head Sydrome, sounds much more troublesome!

[Panthers007]

Exploding Head Syndrome? Just give George Bush a "Where's Waldo" book and stand back...

This involuntary TwItCh! people get just as they are going over into sleep/REM is quite common. Many people are unaware of it, yet it happens to them. Seems taking certain substances can allow one to become aware of it. Can something like MDMA elicit it? Or is it merely made aware to the person after the MDMA? This remains to be determined.

[zajcek01]

StateOfTrance, your symptoms could be the cause of tiredness/lack of sleep.

When I didn't go to sleep for some 3 days or more, I got those wierd laugh attacks, I was disoriented at some times, got trouble with my balance, saw random white flashes, and in school when I almost fell asleep, I jumped of the chair screaming (I saw a greenish blue, 1m tall thing watching me. It looked like chupacabra:
http://www.ugo.com/channels/filmTv/f...chupaCabra.jpg, the only difference from this picture was, that the thing had bigger ears, then I saw it again at evening in my room, crawling on the walls and ceeling, but was smaller and looked similar to that creature from Alien 8th passenger http://bp2.blogger.com/_jv-vx0HDjF0/.../8thpass01.jpg, only it's head was smaller, had big black eyes and it was green. Then it disappeared)

The lack of sleep was my experiment, to see if the claim that the lack of sleep can cause hallucinations, and it most certainty did. I decided that my experiment was dangerous and I have to abandon it.

When I went to bed I couldn't fell asleep. At some point I felt like my head is doing to explode, but not because of pain..... I heard loud music/noise, saw some random colors and triangular shapes, I couldn't move, couldn't scream, couldn't wake up, my hearth was racing, and I felt I was flying across the space with enormous speed, rotating.

The same thing happened to me every night for the next couple of days, then it suddenly stopped.

Then I experienced it again, when I was very tired.
It happens to me when I don't sleep enough for some time.


During my experiment, I did not take any mind altering substances, and those episodes could not been withdrawal symptoms, because I was not taking/been addicted to any psychoactive substances. I drank coffee (max 2 cups a day- not every day), but not during experiment.

[drizzle]

StateofTrance, I know exactly what you're talking about. I had it too ALWAYS on the third day after using E, especially when I smoked a joint before going to sleep. You can prevent it by not smoking before going to sleep (I don't know if you do but most E users do so...) and drink some beers instead! Sound like a weird advice but it worked for me!
I remember to be so afraid of those attacks! Scary stuff!!!!
I m sure it has been mistaken here in previous posts for the normal falling/bodyshock sensation when you're really tired. I experience those as well (everybody does i think) but the shocks after E are hundred times more aggressive and scary. I m sure it has something to do with the serotonin system that is deregulated, since MDMA affects serotonin levels much stronger than SSRI's do, and after a sudden withdrawal of taking SSRI's, 'flash shocks' are reported too. So I think it must be the same as that but probably harder since MDMA affects serotonin levels more than SSRI's do.

Now my best advice: stop taking MDMA!! I did too and the shocks stopped! I follow a Dutch blog (with experts giving advice) and there it is said that flashes can be a sign of serious brain damage and also a sign of your body telling you to stop taking E. I was a heavy user as well and it only seems to occur in heavy users.

Cool subject by the way and i think few people (i think only heavy users) know what it feels like. So i m glad i m not alone! I still remeber that horrible feeling after six years!

Drizzle

[SpinKing]

Originally Posted by zajcek01

(I saw a greenish blue, 1m tall thing watching me. It looked like chupacabra:
http://www.ugo.com/channels/filmTv/f...chupaCabra.jpg, the only difference from this picture was, that the thing had bigger ears, then I saw it again at evening in my room, crawling on the walls and ceeling, but was smaller and looked similar to that creature from Alien 8th passenger http://bp2.blogger.com/_jv-vx0HDjF0/.../8thpass01.jpg, only it's head was smaller, had big black eyes and it was green. Then it disappeared)

Weird, I saw a similar green alien man flash up on my computer screen (in my head), after staying up two nights (one on woodrose), decided to turn my computer off and go to sleep.
(to Drizzle) After SWIM experienced this, for the next few weeks, SWIM would experience marked anxiety when I smoked weed, and felt horrible.
Could this be an indication of damage to Serotonin system or neurotoxicity? Do you feel mentally sound after 6 years abstinence
Happy to hear SWIY stopped taking e (SWIM didn't feel SWIM had a choice), it destroyed my impression of it as a relatively safe drug.
More research is needed.

[Pino]

Different thing probably, but a friend of my cat had a mdma habit at a certain time in his live. He experienced, what he called a 'storm' in his head. Like something moved all the time. His short term memory was also fucked. But he didn't experience shocks.

He did a lot xtc. Maybe 10 pills a week for a couple of months (he took more than 200 pills in total). Luckily for him he seems to be more or less ok.

[Synesthesiac]

Originally Posted by Panthers007

This involuntary TwItCh! people get just as they are going over into sleep/REM is quite common. Many people are unaware of it, yet it happens to them. Seems taking certain substances can allow one to become aware of it. Can something like MDMA elicit it? Or is it merely made aware to the person after the MDMA? This remains to be determined.

I think its very likely made worse by mdma, after a particularly bad binge on mdma swim had a night when it happened like 20-30 times, and kept him up for hours. I haven't noticed my girlfriend (who has never done MDMA) twitching like this at all when she goes to sleep, or anyone else this regularly for that matter. Maybe the occasional one here or there, but not really multiple times in one night. Also, swim was taking magnesium supplements before and after this kept happening, so this is not a cure as someone above postulated.

Its usually accompanied by sleep paralysis, and sometimes the 'brain zap' does cause you to twitch when its a strong one, which must be when the brain zap turn into a Hypnagogic jerk. Presumably from a random electrical/neural surge effecting your motor neurons when they should be inactive as your trying to sleep.

hmmmm, Has xtc ever been related to epilepsy in any studies? Because if this happened continually, and not just as a one off brief zap, you would pretty much be having an epileptic fit. But I haven't heard of a link between the two. Luckily.

And anyone have any links to shulgins aforementioned comments on this? Always nice to see what the master has to say.

[tranceholic]

i hate the brain zaps, it's been the 3rd day for me. i am afraid to sleep or having a thought.