Other - Chlorphorm codeine extraction

[RoboCodeine7610]

HI,
While SWIM was surfing the net he found a new way to extract codeine which, to SWIM, seemed to have a WAY better yield than the CWE.
Just wanted to know SWIY's opinions about it:

"To do this, you will need some chloroform or other solvent in which codeine base will dissolve, APAP won't. Merck says that chloroform works best, although I suspect that methylene chloride will work just as well. Ether will work, but it's just too dangerous for my taste. You will also need some dry sodium carbonate. (bicarb might work here, although I haven't tried it.) DO NOT USE SODIUM HYDROXIDE, IT REACTS WITH THE APAP TO FORM SOME SORT OF EVIL LOOKING BLUE GOOP. Na(CO3)2 WILL RAISE THE pH JUST FINE. Lastly, you will need a large pyrex lasagna pan in which to evaporate your product to dryness.

First, place uncrushed T3's or other APAP/codeine product in a small glass or beaker and cover with enough distilled water so that the pills will break down into a thin paste. For 30 T3's, I use about 30-35 ml of H20. Let the pills soak until completely broken down into paste. Next add about 5-8 grams of dry sodium carbonate to reduce the codeine phosphate to codeine base. The paste will thicken somewhat and bubbles of CO2 will form in the paste as the codeine phosphate is reduced. Add enough distilled water so that the mixture is about the consistency of thin pancake batter and stir the mixture thoroughly with a wooden or glass rod. The pH of the mixture should be about 11 or greater. If it isn't, add more Na(CO3)2 until it is.

Next, pour the mixture into the pyrex pan and rinse the beaker with a few ml of distilled water and add the rinse water to the mix in the pan. Use the stir rod to spread the grayish mixture around the pan so that the layer is as thin as possible. Let the mix dry overnight. You can pop the pan into an oven set to warm, (no hotter), if you want to speed things up.

After the mixture has completely dried, use a single-edge razor blade to scrape the mixture from the pan. It should just flake off in slabs. Now, wrap the dried material in a coffee filter and crush it so that the pieces are about the size of grains of rice. It isn't necessary to grind the stuff any finer, since it would probably clog the filter in the last step anyhow. Pour the dry crushed mixture into a glass bottle with a screw-on top and pour in enough chloroform to completely cover the "gravel" in the bottle. Seal the bottle and shake for a few minutes. Let the contents settle for a minute or two while you set up a gravity filtering apparatus. This can be a coffee filter in a metal strainer, or if you have it, a piece of filter paper in a glass filter funnel. You can't use plastic because the chloroform will attack it and ruin your product. Clean and dry the pyrex pan and set it under the filter to catch the filtered chloroform. Shake the chloroform/"gravel" mixture and pour it into the filter, letting the chloroform/codeine mixture run into the glass pan. Let the chloroform evaporate while you put the wet gravel back into the bottle and shake with a fresh portion of chloroform. It isn't necessary to use as much as you did the first time. Again pour the chloroform/gravel mix into the filter paper.

After the second portion of chloroform has run through the filter, you can drip a few ml of clean chloroform onto the filter paper and wet gravel to get the last bit of codeine from the APAP and chalk. You should set the glass pan with the chloroform outside to evaporate to dryness. Do not place it into an oven to force dry it. While chloroform is not very flamable, I found out the hard way that chloroform vapor is broken down on contact with the heating elements of the stove to form deadly phosgene gas.

Be patient, soon enough you will have nearly pure codeine base in the bottom of the glass pan. After the codeine has evaporated, you might notice that the codeine is sticky. This is because evaporating chloroform gets very cold and room humidity will condense into the mixture. If this happens, you can oven warm the codeine, but only after you can no longer smell the chloroform in it. You can now use the razor blade to scrape up the crude product. The codeine base will not weigh as much as an equivalent amount of codeine phosphate, because you have stripped the phosphate ions and left behind the pure alkaloid. Fear not, it is still potent orally, just remember to adjust your dose downward. codeine base weighs only 75.3% as much as an equimolar amount of codeine phosphate. If you want to re-salt it, you can use the following proces:

Into 20 ml of acetone add 2 ml of phosphoric acid and set this mixture aside. Dissolve your crude codeine base into enough acetone so that it just dissolves. You might have to warm up the acetone to get it to dissolve completely. If you want to clean up any insoluble contaminants at this point, take a pasteur pipet and pack a small wad of cotton into the point where the pipet narrows. Using another pipet, drip the codeine/acetone mixture through the cotton. Follow this with a ml or two of clean acetone to get all the codeine from the pipet filter. Next, mix the acetone/phosphoric acid solution into the acetone/codeine base solution in a 50/50 ratio. As you stir the resultant misture, you will see the codeine phosphate quickly precipitate from the acetone as a sticky gummy mass. As you stir the solution, the final product should form a bolus on the stirring rod and look like a wad of chewing gum. Rinse the bolus in a small amount of fresh acetone and then smear it on a glass plate to dry. As the acetone evaporates, the codeine phosphate (CP) will appear to melt. This is because the CP is highly hygroscopic and is absorbing water from the air. Gently warm the CP in an oven to drive off the last of the acetone and then use a pipet or syringe to first drip water onto the CP, and then suck up the CP solution. You may now drink your product, or you can again reduce it to codeine base and extract it with chloroform if you prefer a much purer, powdered product"

again, SWIM does not claim to have come up with this method, he just found it and wanted to know your opinions about it.

[0utrider]

ıf SWImmers test ıt and fınd ıt useful SWIM wıll add ıt to the CWE faq

[RoboCodeine7610]

Unfortunately SWIM doesn't have any chlorphorm right now, nor does he have the chance of making his own so could any of you SWIYs try this method and report back?

[Panthers007]

No offense intended, but if I owned a chemical supply company - I wouldn't sell 'Chloroform' to someone who spelled it 'chlorophorm.'

Chloroform (CHCl3) is a very dangerous chemical for neophytes to be playing with. It is a potent carcinogen (causes cancer), and it must be handled in a fume-hood if possible. Or outdoors with a respirator and other suitable clothing to prevent skin, eyes, lung contact. While it is not flammable per se - in contact with hot metallic surfaces it will liberate phosgene. That's military (WWI) poison gas. One that a breath or two of will not have an effect - until a few hours later when the lungs fill up with hydrochloric acid and you drown internally.

So, please, don't play with chloroform unless you are trained. Methylene chloride isn't much safer, either.

A CWE can't kill you. On the contrary - it could save your life. Please leave higher-tech chemistry for such a time as you have gone to school and have actual, practical knowledge behind you.

[0utrider]

good poınt.. and swım guesses that people how know how to 'play' wıth chloroform wouldnt ask these questıons here ın the fırst place

[davestate]

Aside from all that, I see no real advantage that this offers over plain old cold water...

[Tortoise]

Wow, that's a longwinded, cumbersome, dangerous and expensive way to do what Swim already does with tap-water.

It's nice to know that theoretically there are other ways of doing a CWE, but Swim wouldn't bother with this method even if all the ingredients were readily available.

[RoboCodeine7610]

Well one of the advantages it would offer would be saving your liver from acetaminophen poisoning, since a CWE doesn't in SWIM's opinion remove enough acetaminophen.
Another issue is the yeild, since this extraction would have a waaaaaaaay better yeild.
and the last advantage is being able to evaporate off the chlorform easily and being able to make codeine capsules.
So yeah, SWIM thinks it's an awesome substitute to a CWE if SWIY extracts 3 or 5 grams and then make capsules for a month or two...

[NarcyNellie]

Actually, the chemical formula of chloroform is CCl4, but no big deal... it is a dangerous chemical nonetheless.

I found this on another forum, don't know if it's accurate (especially given the pervasive spelling mistakes). But it claims to extract the A/A *and* the caffeine, leaving only codeine. Nice considering if you're also getting 15 mg of caffeine for every 8 mg of codeine, it could be counteracting the opioid effects and keeping you awake. Can anyone confirm or refute the chemistry of this extraction? Seems to me like a codeine phosphate salt could be soluble in ethanol?

"It can be done more simply.
Codeine in the preparations is in salt form (Codeine Phosphate usualy)
making it fairly insoluble in most things.
Extract ASA/Acetominophen & caffiene w/acetone, then ethanol.
Discard the extracts. Mix some ly or baking soda with some ethanol, and
add to pill sludge, w/stirring for about 5 min. This will freebase the
codeine, making it easily soluble in the ethanol. Filter and discard
pill sludge, & evaporate ethanol to give codeine.

NarcyNellie added 125 Minutes and 15 Seconds later...

Oops, my bad ... CHCl3 ... you're totally right. Brain fart .... But carbon tetrachloride is pretty icky too.

[Panthers007]

Yes - it's hogwash. ly? You mean "Lye" - which is Sodium Hydroxide - NaOH. Or baking soda? Sodium Bicarbonate - NaHCO3. Why do that? Free-base the codeine so it becomes insoluble in water and ruins the CWE? Brilliant. Claiming on profile chemistry is your interest/background? Fascinating.

Wherever one got that 'recipe' must have left out the rider on the top of the paper: Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA).

Just follow the CWE method given elsewhere. This thread should be closed before someone gets hurt and drinks NaOH and/or dies.

Until then: DO NOT FOLLOW ADVICE ABOVE!

Reputation Comments on this post:

The user was not trying to claim that the method was tried and true he was asking if it would work. Don't bust his ball...

[Alfa]

Your posts explain pretty clear why chloroform should not be used as described above to extract codeine. As such this thread reduces harm and will not be deleted or closed.

Reputation Comments on this post:

I think you are flat-out wrong. I just hope no idiot out there tries that and drinks NaOH.

[NarcyNellie]

Alfa's post sums it up: people need to see incorrect myths dispelled lest they try it at home.

Panther, "brilliant" and "fascinating" sound like sarcastic personal attacks... found this in the guidelines which I had to read and agree to before using this site, perhaps you should refresh thereupon:
"Flames, insults, and personal attacks will not be tolerated. It's fine to disagree strongly with opinions, ideas, and facts, but always with respect for the other person. Great minds do not always think alike, and that's where the fun is!"

[Panthers007]

Perhaps I jumped the proverbial thermonulear weapons launch console. I would like to think so. But I also think it should have been made EXTREMELY clear that people should not be trying this at home. I've been privy to too many "accidents" that could have been prevented. Had an old friend who ended up drinking an NaOH solution. Nearly killed him. He lost a lot of his stomach and other goodies as a result. Months in hospital.

So let's shake hands and walk away as friends?

[NarcyNellie]

Sure! I would not drink NaOH or any other solution that I did not prepare myself and know the precise reaction.

[discodave]

Can any it be explained why it is safe to do cwe with coffee filters so uneducated people like swim can stop trying to play chemistry? since coffee filters are going to have holes in them why can't the apap sneak through these little holes? SWIM gets that only a small amount of apap can dissolve in the water but how come small ground up bits of the sludge solution don't fit through the holes? Why do coffee filters not have to be a smaller hole size than the size of apap particles?

[0utrider]

well if SWIY uses cold water the APAP crystalizes out (similar to water becoming ice, thus hard and solid) and becomes too thick to go through the micro-filters of the coffee filter. that's a simple explaination, and thats why its called cold water extraction

[discodave]

Thanks outriderx. swim just thought that they could weigh the result too, then it dawned on swim that 20 grams (40 8/500 pills) of apap is quite a lot to hide in a little bit of water! even 4 grams would be readily visible swim thinks? swim is much happier...

[0utrider]

well obviously the more APAP SWIY filters, the more water is needed. check the faq in my signature for details on that

[RoboCodeine7610]

Originally Posted by outriderx

well if SWIY uses cold water the APAP crystalizes out (similar to water becoming ice, thus hard and solid) and becomes too thick to go through the micro-filters of the coffee filter. that's a simple explaination, and thats why its called cold water extraction

SWIM uses scientific filters which shouldn't let any Paracetamol crystals through (SWIM thinks) does that mean that swim doesn't need to cool the solution? Thanx in advance