Opinions - Benzo Binges

[Solinari]

I was wondering if someone used a fair number of say diazepam one day, then did it then next day, would he get the same effects from using them a 3rd day?

In my fiends experience, especially with temazepam, he using the day he gets them, but the next day it's just not the same, the effects don't seem to be as pronounced. Is there a physiological explanation for this? I would of thought, with the half life of diazepam being so long, that the effects the next day would be more pronounced but that doesn't seem to be the case.

My fiend has taken about 250mg of diazepam over 2 days, 100mg one day, then 150mg the next day, now he has 100mg today but he isn't sure if he will get anything from them. What do we think?

[Jatelka]

Tolerance, so the flamingo recalls from her benzo days, is a bitch.

In her experience it developed rapidly, and distinctly NOT the same effects were achieved on Day 3 compared to day 1.

As for an explanation, I believe it's those pesky GABA receptors.

The Flamingo would also like to stress that the quantities of diazepam mentioned in Solionari's post are not for the novice. They would flatten benzo naive users (and, indeed, most rhinocerous')

[darkbreed]

Also remember benzos stay in the system and active for a while after ingestion of it, so thus taking more within this timeframe will not lead to the same "wow" experience as you are still basically under the influence and just add alittle more but dont get the first initial rush. Wait some days for that so the system cleans out.

It's basically like drinking, once you get the buzz and are drunk one more beer wont do really much

If you for some reason want to frequently use (or have to do so) benzos, I suggest cycling around on different types of benzos so you don't end up with a big tolerance and dependency towards a specific one. This is what SWIM is doing lately and it's pretty effetctive and works great, much easier to quit for some days or lower dosages etc than it would be if SWIM had stayed same amount of time on just one benzo.

SWIM is getting scripts for all existing benzos in his country so he go plenty to chose from, which also means there are many that goes around before he ends up with the first one again, and when doing so the first one works better again than it would have done if it was the only one used throughout the same whole period of time.

Currently SWIM got in his drawers alprazolam, midazolam, clonazepam, ketazolam, lorazepam, chlordiazepoxide, diazepam and flunitrazepam. All of them are of the most potent variant available as SWIM has a nice big tolerance, what gives SWIM no noticeable effect at all completely knocks out his girlfriend and makes her stumble around (SWIM didnt give her anything himself btw, she took without his permission and then told him about it when SWIM noticed how buggered she started to seem in a conversation - before she fell asleep flat out. SWIM had already taken double of the same himself along with couple other benzos and some beers but felt fine. Just an example that those unepxerienced and dont knowing their tolerance should always start low)

[Politicalchalk]

darkbeerd, forgive the language, but how the hell did your doc to concurrently prescribe so many benzos, many with the same indications? Maybe Swiy's got a crooked doc? Swim asks not for the HOW, so much as, isn't that violating medical ethics? SWIM can reasonably see 3 benzos at most...one of sleep, one for anxiety, and one for muscle tension (or "breakthrough anxiety"). Swim has enough trouble getting the meds he needs from his regular docs without looking like a suspicious drug fiend out to rape their daughters and burn their churches.

added a min later...

Oh yeah, as for the original post, Swim's cat hat noticed this effect pronouncedly in Carisoprodol (Soma). Short story, it breaks down into an accumulative sedative/hypnotic from the way-back machine, but day 3 is always a bit tougher than day 1

[Solinari]

Thanks for the replies, it was pretty much what i thought.

Darkbreed benzo's are benzo's regardless of the specific type or name, they all act in a very similar manner and they are ALL cross tolerant which means using diazepam for 2 days then using alprazolam for 2 days etc etc, it's not going to prevent tolerance or dependence.

[darkbreed]

Buffalogreen & Solinari:

The reason SWIM get so many benzos is a combination of living in a country where they basically prescribe what you ask for, as well as an agreement with the doctor to rotate on the benzos instead of sticking to a fixed set of them. He is a good doctor btw, not a crook, and most of the time SWIM get the appointments with him for free so got nothing to do with money etc, he is quite a nice and understanding doctor in SWIMs opinion.

This is, despite what Solinari claims, a good way of keeping tolerance and dependency down. SWIM know this from personal experimentation and find that new benzos give good effect even though SWIM have a big general benzo tolerance for my "standard" long time ones. SWIM used benzos for many many years and figured this procedure eases things.

An example is, an high alprazolam dependency is much worse to get rid of than a low valium dependency as well as tolerance. The key, as it seems to me, is to frequently change the benzos used for similar ones and also to make sure some days you take a weaker benzo than you normally would for the same medical indication.

I'm not a big expert on the benzos chemistry in the brain, but I know enough that they function somewhat different, most of them are not even completely understood, and they bind somewhat different to the GABA receptors etc.

So, one week you go on lets say diazepam for muscle tension and flunitrazepam for sleep problems. The week after you change from diazepam to bromazepam, and flunitrazepam to nitrazepam.

Week after that you change from bromazepam to ketazolam, and from nitrazepam to temazepam.

Then lets say Chlordiazepoxide a week instead of bromazepam, and lorazepam instead of temazepam. This would be a "weak" week as these are less potent than the others.

It would be good to try stay as low as possible on the dosages as well, and not mix along with other benzos but keep to a plan like above. If you can do, going couple days a week without taking anything would further improve it.

Of course you have to take care of the dosages, as f.ex 10mg diazepam is weaker than 2mg alprazolam. So you'd have to adjust the dosages of the various benzos to suit what you need and not overdo it.

SWIM found this procedure to be quite useful, and it makes it easier to taper down on the benzo use as well as you are less bound to be dependent to one specific benzo (like f.ex alprazolam, or flunitrazepam, both hard to quit).

At some point once gone through all the benzos you'll start the cycle over again, but can do it in different way if preferred.

Half-lives and metabolism etc are also things to be taken in consideration.

Usually, the stronger benzos are often tapered down with weaker benzos when going to quit the use such as going from alprazolam to diazepam and then to Chlordiazepoxide etc, while making sure to take less and less and try take more and more days without taking until you manage to stay clean. This can be a long process though, I've heard you should taper of by around 10% a week of your benzo dosage and it can take up to a year to get off a benzo dependency.

Even SWIM who get benzos legally for medical reason do not take it every day even though he is prescribed to do so, simply because he want some "clean" days. On the other hand, some days he takes more than prescribed. Oh well

Btw, after all the years of SWIMs benzo use he never really had a big problem quitting using them at the times he did, when following the above method. Extra help in quitting benzos can be taking some other things instead of the benzos some days to get the benzos outta the system. F.ex one day alcohol, or two days, one day opiate, one day nohing if can do, one day benzo, and so on. Just make sure to lower the dosages of all the "replacements" as well so you dont just end up with a new dependency. Skip days etc until more and more days are skipped and at some point there aint any days you need anything.

As I mentioned somewhere else, herbal relaxants / tranquilizers can be a great help in lowering the benzo use and getting of it. There are many relaxant herbs in pills and teas that can have quite useful effects. Physical workout and exercise on regular basis also helps cleansing the body and make it easier, along with some fasting, eating and drinking lotsa healthy food, plenty of vitamins and minerals and nutritions etc.

Meditation, hemi-sync/holo-sync, brainwave affecting programs etc can also be a good aid for this either alone or combined with the above. Personally I got this one program called I-Doser, and its Oxycodone dose always knocks me out at night.

And of course self-hypnosis and hypnosis audio programs for addiction problems and such can also be very useful. There are many ways to get off an addiction, and several combinations can be used to enhance and speed up the process.

At least that's some of SWIMs experience with these things.

[Jatelka]

I have to say I'd like to see some scientific evidence for this "rotation of benzodiazepines avoiding dependence and tolerance" theory

Benzos ARE cross tolerant, it's as simple as that. Granted, not all act in the same way, and there are many different subunits of the GABA receptor, but if avoiding addiction/tolerance/dependence was as easy as you state then there would be far fewer people with problems in the world.

While the intricacies of GABAnergic neurotransmission escape me, the way I see it, is that the majority of drugs associated with interactions at this receptor are associated with tolerance/dependence/addiction/withdrawal

Alcohol, barbiturates, benzodiapines, Z-drugs, GHB and now the newer GABAnergic drugs (E.g: Gabapentin, see the file archive for case reports)

[darkbreed]

SWIM is not saying you will completely avoid tolerance or dependency, He is saying it will reduce it and make it less strong. It's like I tried explain, flunitrazepam for example is more addictive than diazepam, so it is easier for a diazepam user to quit than a flunitrazepam user. Phenezepam is even worse, extremely addictive.

The point is to circulate around so the brain doesnt get the dependecy as strong towards one drug, and since they are all benzos its better having a less tolerance and less depdency towards several of them, rather than being very tolerant and very dependant to a few of them.

Works for SWIM at least, and my doc thought its a good idea as well but if he is just philosophizing like me or have studied something about this method SWIM wouldnt know

[Beanfondler]

Swibf managed to sustain a 2-3 month blackout with the assistance of K's and Z's for pennies a tablet acquired at a miscellaneous source. Swibf found it fairly eerie to become alert so long after one more or less could not remember when it was that they actually drifted off.

[Solinari]

For some reason my last reply didn't post. Anyway, my fiend used about 70 x 10mg diazepam over about 5 - 6 days, this ended about 4 days ago now. 2 days ago he was feeling rather ropey, definitely felt like a bit of a rattle but luckily he found half a 20mg temazepam he KNEW he had but could never find, but he searched and found it, thank fuck.

It made him feel a little better and seem to get rid of the electric shock feeling he was used to with venlafaxine. The thing he is wondering, is using 70 blues for 5 - 6 days enough to cause a withdrawal? I wouldn't of thought so, but it seemed to be the case, albeit mild.

He still feels a little dodgy even today, last night he felt like he hadn't had his methadone for 2 days (he has had it), and he just took his 90ml (mg) half an hour ago and feels a little better. He is just wondering if he should expect anything else, and is the electric shock thing (the brain zap i have heard it being called) part of benzo withdrawal?