Smoking - Having hard time relaxing on salvia.

[pkplayer524]

This is a problem swim has been having.

He just took salvia a couple hours ago, 3rd time. This time, like every time so far he feel very speedy, anxious, and completely unable to relax and just chill. He tends to become very confused and trys to "shake off" the effects and sober up.

Swim would like to enjoy the trip and take it all in but its just so intense he can't really manage to even try.

What would people on this forum recommend? Perhaps swim would need Alprazolam or something similar to help calm down and relax.

[RaverHippie]

Salvia isn't a very relaxing trip itself, and SWIM believes it isn't meant to be. It's confusing, introspective, and throws you into antoher world. It's so short that a benzo shouldn't be necessary imo

[thepieman1]

SWIY could try meditating beforehand or maybe combining with weed although my pet albatross has never tried it.

[Heretic.Ape.]

Monkey has found that drinking beforehand helps--the liquid courage approach. Also dextromethorphan intoxication makes the transition very easy to deal with as well as extending the effects.
Meditating while moving into salvia space (ie as one is holding the hit in after putting the pipe down) can also help according to monkey but is more hit and miss as you'd need to be good at meditation and monkey is hit and miss in meditation.

[informer_]

Swim usually just takes the hit holds it n then just closes Swims eyes, and lay down, Let swiy's Body just let go and let Swiy's mind flow with it.

[TMM]

Relaxing? Why on earth would Salvia be relaxing?

[Gradient]

Swim has never found salvia to be remotely relaxing. In fact - swim would compare it to an acute fight-or-flight response coupled with complete psychedelic immersion. What is your method of ingestion? Perhaps lower doses would make the experience more manageable?

If you're looking for a more manageable experience, smoked DMT is really where it's at. The peak is invigorating, and the aftermath is quite relaxing and pleasant. In fact, many of swim's cohorts describe the come-down of smoked DMT as their favorite part of the experience due to it's relaxing and emotionally stabilizing/reorienting nature.

[Salvinorin A]

Originally Posted by Gradient

Swim has never found salvia to be remotely relaxing. In fact - swim would compare it to an acute fight-or-flight response coupled with complete psychedelic immersion. What is your method of ingestion? Perhaps lower doses would make the experience more manageable?

If you're looking for a more manageable experience, smoked DMT is really where it's at. The peak is invigorating, and the aftermath is quite relaxing and pleasant. In fact, many of swim's cohorts describe the come-down of smoked DMT as their favorite part of the experience due to it's relaxing and emotionally stabilizing/reorienting nature.

SWIM agrees exactly with everything said here.

Salvia is not really meant to be relaxing. Swim would try to meditate, but as soon as swim hears the heart start pounding...it' fight or flight.

The only time EVER that swim had a relaxing experience was in combination with DXM...never tried the alcohol approach though, that might be interesting.

And yes, DMT and its comedown are incredible. "Emotionally stabilizing" is exactly right.

Sal-A

[Geeza]

Yes, swim would agree, salvia is not relaxing. Swim has a similar problem with salvia.

He feels uncomfortable. Not axious or paranoid or anything. Just physically uncomfortable. He would liken it to wearing an itchy, scrachy old jumper. He did a hit about 25 mins ago. It made him get up and away from the window as it was making him cold and the coldness was getting prickly and annoying. There was a strong feeling that he had to tell someone something, and an urge to shout meaningless things like "it's not for you" down the stairs (but through the wall and from inside my bedroom - if that makes sense).

Swim thinks salvia would be a lot more interesting if it didn't give him prickly skin and the feeling that his clothes are grating on him - it distracts from the trip.

Anyone else feel anything similar?

[chaosx]

evil always feels like he has gone too far when he feels the salvia kick in, almost a kind of paranoid reaction. however he usually only takes low strength extracts 10x. evil wonders if it is really his mind that is a little afraid of salvia that makes him feel this way. evil has found smoking some weed before salvia mellows the salvia out significantly, and if evil was ever gonna try a stronger extract he would probably do this first.

alcohol has had almost no effect on him & salvia.

[V.A.C.]

Is your friend taking it with other people present? I know they say have a sitter, but Swim sometimes get quite angry at people being there, as it drags Swim in and out of reality, then Swim just wants the effects to just drop.

[helikophis]

Originally Posted by pkplayer524

This is a problem swim has been having.

He just took salvia a couple hours ago, 3rd time. This time, like every time so far he feel very speedy, anxious, and completely unable to relax and just chill. He tends to become very confused and trys to "shake off" the effects and sober up.

Swim would like to enjoy the trip and take it all in but its just so intense he can't really manage to even try.

What would people on this forum recommend? Perhaps swim would need Alprazolam or something similar to help calm down and relax.

The reason that this happens to him every time, is that this is the effects of the drug. There isn't much point in "trying to enjoy the trip", as it tends not to be very enjoyable, for the majority of users. The reason someone can't relax, is that salvia is not relaxing, in fact it is quite the opposite. It is an intense, disorienting, sometimes terrifying experience. It affects the kappa-opioid receptors. These receptors are, in many ways, the "opposite" of the mu-opioid receptors, which morphine and other opiates effect. Mu-opioid drugs produce feelings of comfort, peace, contentment, and are addictive. Salvia does the reverse: it is unsettling, frightening, and the more times people do it the less likely they are to do it again.

The diviner's sage should be approached with respect, maturity, reverence, and good purpose. The salvia experience tends to be very hard to re-integrate with reality. It isn't a "chilling" drug. It isn't for fun, or for parties. It has very particular uses, and quite specific effects. Anxiety and confusion are part of those effects. If those aren't aren't what someone is looking looking for, he should find a different drug.

So what are the uses? The reason it is called "Salvia divinorum," the "diviner's sage," is that it is most effectively employed as a tool for divination. People tend to get the most out of it when there is some specific question or idea that they are trying to explore. People who approach the sage for "fun" or with no idea why they are doing it or what it's for, tend to get "stomped on" by the Lady. That is, they tend to be forcefully ejected from the realm of the sage, to have terrifying experiences, to learn nothing, and to be able bring little knowledge back with them from the other side. On the other hand, if the Sage is approached with good reason, and with a clear purpose, she can be a tutor, a revealer-of-the-self, and can help guide one on one's path. But she does demand a price.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Very good explanation of SD's mode of action and nature of the trip. Good advice

[thepieman1]

My pet albatross has found that when taking salvia unprepared it can often cause distress/panic at the onset of the effect. He thinks that this is probably why lots of people tend to try to get up or walk away when trying it for the first time.

He finds the best way combat this is to make sure everything is prepared before hand, plan exactly how many hits you're going to take, and where you're going to put the bong, the position you're going to sit/lie in, unplug the phone, have a cold drink ready for afterwards, make sure you've got plenty of time to experience without being interrupted or having to leave.

Once you've got everything sorted and you're going into the trip, you can tell yourself that you know everything will be ok, since you've prepared and since the effects are only being caused by the drug.

Also, since my previous post, he has combined it with weed with positive results, and it did seem to help to an extent with this issue.

[telja munda]

Relaxing …Yeah, sure. More like Mach 4 afterburners on your motorcycle as you hurtle through a crowded surreal color-enhanced 1940s carnival. WWHhhhhhheeeeeiiiioowwww!!

PS - One must be in the mood for a real adventure. And for maximum enjoyment (if I can use that word) one must remind oneself right beforehand to surrender to it completely. Forget everything you know and just jump in and let it take you away. No resistance.

[riaahacker]

As said earlier the active component in salvia is a potent and very selective kappa-opioid receptor agonist. Agonists of this receptor tend to be dysphoric, panic-inducing, and might cause visual distortion (as salvia famously does and then some). Even THC is shown to be a partial agonist to this receptor.

The best thing one can do during a ride like salvia is to not ignore the fear but to embrace it. The whole point of a psychedelic experience is not to run away from the aspects but to accept all that it wants to give, easier said than done for most, but swiy succeeds, he might gain some very valuable insight.

[Master_Khan]

Originally Posted by helikophis

It is an intense, disorienting, sometimes terrifying experience: it is unsettling, frightening, and the more times people do it the less likely they are to do it again.

Crossing Salvia off the bucket list. TIA!

[Ally420]

SWIM made what they called Salvation Butter. SWIM was inspired to try making this product after seeing the "Shamanic Colonic" video on youtube by the neurosoup <sp>. The Salvation Butter is made exactly like cannabutter... boiled in a pot with water and butter. Then strained and separated. It is important to weigh the plant material used first so as to know how much a dose is.

So far my ferret has not been willing or brave enough to try it orally. She has tried it as a colonic because the experience can be terminated if need be pritty easily. However it is a very slow and steady absorption rate. The effects come on slow (30 min) and are a bit like a mild mushroom trip with the phsycal overtones of salvia at the concentration SWIM has tried so far.

That said a word of warning: Because of the slow rate of absorption the effects last a long long time.... the longest my ferret ever experienced was about 8 hours and effects were still going when she terminated the experience.

Like salvia cud which for some SWIM is more relaxing and envigorating, Salvation Butter is about the closest my ferret has ever come to thinking salvia was relaxing (except for her cheeks which remained clenched. ).

(Note: In reference to the first rep received for this post SWIM believes they are the first to have tried this method of preparation. To their knowledge Erowid has annoyingly not yet posted their experience report even tho it was submitted over a year ago.)

Reputation Comments on this post:

very useful information, first reference I've seen to this administration route

[tisanemaster]

Sorry to revive a thread, but I didn't wanna create another one that talked about the same thing.

I think my otter will try salvia tonight and he has an idea to induce relaxation and to reduce the chance of bad/too intense trips. It's because my otter had very bad experience with weed and thus discovered the wonderful world of panic attacks and bad trips, so now it's "easier" for him to worry about them or to induce one. However, the last panic attack he had has occured more than 8 months ago. But he wants to take salvia again (he already took 20x extract and had an ok but intense trip (an "I" on the salvia scale), and this was before the bad weed experience. That's just to say he won't be surprised by the effects (the most common reason of bad trips, he thinks), even if they're intense). But my otter also learned how to relax under pretty much any circumstances and he recently took "long-lasting" drugs that could trigger anxiety (like diphenhydramine) without any problems. He will use the sublingual quid method as it is more gentle and mellower. The longer-lasting effects are not that much of a worry for him either.

The idea:
1-Drinking 2 cups or more of a tea brewed with valerian root and kava kava.
2-Taking a light dose of sublingually administered rehydrated dry leaves (about 2-5 grams).
3-Having 15x kratom extract handy in case of tension or nervousness (only if necessary).
4-Last resort: Having zopiclone and clonazepam handy.

My otter's goal (if possible) is to have a "L" trip on the salvia scale. So if SWIY knows how much dry leaves are needed to attain that, even if it's very inaccurate, my otter would like to know.

(Sorry for my bad grammar, english isn't my first language)

Reputation Comments on this post:

	did the right thing by continuing a thread on-topic rather than starting a new one
	Great first real post, logical path of experimentation, and you're english is just fine, welcome to DF!

[telja munda]

Originally Posted by tisanemaster

I think my otter will try salvia tonight and he has an idea to induce relaxation and to reduce the chance of bad/too intense trips. It's because my otter had very bad experience with weed and thus discovered the wonderful world of panic attacks and bad trips, so now it's "easier" for him to worry about them or to induce one.
. . .
(Sorry for my bad grammar, english isn't my first language)

Hi tisanemaster,
Without going into detail, I would like to suggest that your otter stick to normal otter food for the foreseeable future, you know, things like fish and chips, perhaps the occasional beer. Forget about Salvia for now. If he decides to do it anyway, please remind him to take all of the normal precautions mentioned within this forum. That's my two cents anyway. Others may disagree. Good luck to you.

PS - your English is fine.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good advice, salvia can cause dysforia and panic in some.

[I<3Salvia]

From swim's personal experience Salvia is like being shot through a cannon into another dimension. When you make it to the other side you're okay, but usually you just get stuck in the tube somewhere with your anxiety created by a whole range of things. Swim will list a few things that helps him with anxiety.

1. Do it outside (swim prefers at night) instead of indoors. The clean air and negative ions have a calming effect on a person.

2. Make sure you're completely comfortable, swim finds that if he trips before he has fixed that fold in his jeans that's bothering him it will bother with him throughout the duration of the trip.

3. Make sure you're in a comfortable atmosphere, a place that you know you're safe from cops, parents, judgemental friends, etc.

4. Make sure you're in a good/determined mood before you decide to trip, when you're up there you can't immediately come down no matter how much you want to.

If anything else comes to mind swim will post. Hope this helps.

Reputation Comments on this post:

potentially valuable advice

[TheMainException]

Every time that my lizard has done Salvia, it's been a freak out time. The first and second times were the most memorable in what happened. The first time she was with a sitter as he drove around the countryside. She smoked it and he took the joint after the second hit. She was immediately curling up into a ball and twitching. She was nearly trying to will away the trip. Judas from Jesus Christ Superstar was talking to her and it was terrifying as a whole. The second time, she was alone (at this point she vowed never to take it alone again because she freaked out so bad). She sat in the clearing by the woods and smoked it. She didn't use as high of an extract as previously since it seemed like too much of a trip. This time though, while still able to be conscious with true life, she still ended up freaking when she saw a huge skeleton of some sort of animal. Whether the skeleton was really that large or not (she doesn't freak over those sorts of things, BTW...sober she would have run right over and investigated it), she was freaking out and nearly tried to run away. Being in the woods alone, not a good idea. The other times she has taken it and the other people she has sat for while they took it...all of them always got edgy or anxious.

My lizard knows of very few people online or otherwise who have ever been able to relax while taking salvia. She recommends that if SWIY wants to really decrease the anxiety, chewing fresh leaves would be the way to go (or making tea like your otter is doing). This method seems to cause the least amount of fear and restlessness and is still very mindblowing for many people, so it seems like your otter is on the right path.

Also, has your otter used valerian/kava tea before? If not, it might be wise to try it alone before using it with salvia. Same with numbers 3 and 4 on your list, has your otter tried these things alone to combat anxiety before? Sometimes they can cause a negative reaction or your otter might be allergic to one of them. It is always recommended that each new substance (prescribed, herbal or otherwise) be tried alone to see their effects before being mixed with any other substances.

[convalescent]

SWIM believes SWIY should have nice set and setting.
I mean, SWIM does not believe he would have a nice salvia trip if he was alone. He needs someone (friend) to be present in the room, best if the friend is high too..

Most problems SWIM had were also on relaxing.. on the first times he would just start laughing, seeing absolute chaos and nonsenses random textures everywhere etc. but after some time he managed to calm himself down, knowing that he is safe there, nobody can walk out on him, nobody will interrupt (SWIM and his friends have a pact of drug abuse lol).. SWIM just inhales, lies down, exhales, closes his eyes and fades away into an awake dream.

the laughing is gone now.