what happens when we die?

[daeron]

Originally Posted by Katiii

we must learn that matter is energy. inside of every atom there is a vaccuum. NOTHING... energy is flying around... in different patterns and speeds depending on the element.

this is what im talking about.what have you said with this statement?that inside an atom there is vacuum?(not so,btw-vacuum is a pessure thing,and-it may be debated-a substance thing),that energy is "flying"?

this is not some theory bs its blowing our scientists mind. think about this... how old are the science books students are studying? dont you think there is shit being dicovered everyday? of course. shit that would whhhhooooshhhhhh blow your fuckin mind. i go to a school that is dedicated to educating the most up to date facts.

just cos im a bastard-in science things never go whhhooooshhhhh.never.when you say some theory is new or cutting edge it means that its been around for at least 5yrs,with numerous journal publications&experiments.

one very very important thing to learn DAERON , is that before you learn, you should UNLEARN. live outside of your skin. you is not really inside of your head... you are radiating

now could we just for a moment imagine that im a dumb,and understand things very literaly.would you be so kind to explain poor ol me what did you mean by all that?


im getting a bit tired with all those endless statements that have absolutely no meaning.Ok one thing is what you think the world is like,or better yet what you feel it is like.But either you(and im not only talking about you,katiii) are repeating somebodys elses statements,be it learies,einsteins or fuck even hitlers or you have a problem with experssing your opinion.hey or maybe im just too dumb to get all that halfeducated mumbojumbo.


i would suggest,before forming an opinion so strong,that one should learn all she/he can before going out in the world and preaching...





PS as for the living outta my skin part,thats the biggest trick for humans.we are trapped inside.you may think or want to believe otherwise but it doesnt change the fact that we are.We are doomed to look the word through our subjective interpretations,and although most of them may be the same/simillar no view is completely the same.we will never be objective and we will never know how things really are.

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by Diego

When we die, consciousness changes to an unknown state,

Impossible... there's no such thing as an unknown state. For example, unconsciousness doesn't really exist because it can't be experienced or remembered. Anything unexperienceable is merely a theory. Social agreement means nothing -- for centuries, everyone believed the world was flat, or that the sun rotated around the earth. What we believe is meaningless.

I submit that both death and life are imaginary. They're projections based on our sense of time and memory, sensory mechanisms that create meaning out of nowhere and nothing. It's as if we're suspended in the void, spinning out a dream-universe.

We talk about death, without having even the vaguest clue what life is. How arrogant man is, or maybe just frightened...Edited by: Nicaine

[uqlfy]

Originally Posted by Katiii

<>we must learn that matter is energy. inside of every atom there is a
vaccuum. NOTHING... energy is flying around... in different patterns
and speeds depending on the element.

Nature abhores a vacume. Ever hear that? Even as we speak
astrophysiscts are charting new maps of galaxys. These maps show where
they once believed was nothing</span>
is now what they call dark matter and dark energy. It is common
knowledge matter is energy. What needs to explored is the relationships
between different energys. Mind and Matter.

Edited by: uqlfy

[uNi151]

For example, unconsciousness doesn't really exist because it can't be experienced or remembered.</span>



To say that unconsciousness does not exist sounds ridiculous. It's not
an object. The word "unconscious" is used to symbolize a state of mind,
or rather, a lack of awareness.



I submit that </span><str ong="" style="font-weight: bold;">both death and life are imaginary.
They're projections based on our sense of time and memory, sensory
mechanisms that create meaning out of nowhere and nothing. It's as if
we're suspended in the void, spinning out a dream-universe.




</span></str><str ong="">Experiencing life as a human being can be classified as an
illusion that is contingent upon the human brain, but I wouldn't go so
far as to say that life is totally imaginary, i e; unreal. This
perception of the world that we hold at this very moment is the only
reality we will ever know (as humans) and so in some sense the human
experience can be defined as being 'real'.



One cannot catergorize death as being imaginary either. When I begin to
imagine what death will be like, I can think of nothing. (I can't think
of anything.) If you dwell on this thought long enough you will slowly
begin to realize that nothing doesn't exist, and since nothing doesn't exist, you cannot be no-thing.



We have been falsely indoctrinated into thinking that we have come 'in' to the Universe when in actuality we have come 'out' of it. Just as an apple comes out of an apple tree. So then those who believe they have come 'in'
to the Universe take up a false perception about world around them.
They automatically assume - as I once did - that they are someone
'in' the Universe (false illusion) when it is so blatantly obvious that they ARE the
Universe. And if you can come to terms with reality, you will find this
to be true and in that same moment you will realize that you - Universe
- don't die.



Let me try to clarify this truth to everyone reading this. Let your
body represent the Universe and let all the cells contained by your
body represent the people of the Universe. G'head and look at your
hands, feet, chest, whatever, and let's imagine the cells are little
people. Now let's say a single red blood cell dies (one person), did
your body (the Universe) die? Of course not.



But what we need to understand is that that one red blood cell is
really part of the whole body. You see, in the same exact way you are
part of the whole Universe. Right now you're playing the part of the
little red blood cell which thinks that when it dies it will be the
end. The little red blood cell can't see that it is part of something
much bigger. You see, in reality you are the Universe (your body)
playing the part of a human being (red blood cell). YOU DON'T DIE.



Somehow we have become delusional in thinking that we are some poor guy
trapped inside a bag of skin and what is outside of my skin is not a
part of me. This is the illusion that the majority of the world is
under. There really isn't anything that can be identified as "I" "YOU"
or "ME". Those terms are simply subjective and imaginary, they help us
to communicate with one another.



As humans we like to chop up the Universe to get a better understanding
of our world. It's like graph paper for Geometry class. You'll label
point A here or point B on another spot, but in reality the paper is a
whole with imaginary lines on it. Nothing is separate. Sorry, I start
rambling sometimes, plus swim has some good coke..



But one last thing b4 I bore someone else with this shit on some other
board. If you'll still don't understand what I'm talking about then plz
feel free to ask questions or read my 'god-realization' experience a
few pages back.



But anyway, have you ever wondered about that 'thing' (for lack of a
better word, (damn I'm zooted)) that can experience both of our
realities at the same time? Like for instance, I'm looking at my
computer screen right now, and you're looking at yours. But what is
that 'thing' that can experience both our realities at the same time?
What is that thing that can see through my eyes and your eyes at the
same time? If you understand what I'm talking about here then you're
one step closer to truth.</str><str ong="" style="font-weight: bold;">

</span>

</str>We talk about death, without having even the vaguest clue what life is. How arrogant man is, or maybe just frightened...


Like I always say, if you're (Not you in particular) going to be afraid of death, for God's sake, don't be afraid to live.</span>


Edited by: uNi151

[uqlfy]

Originally Posted by uNi151

<str ong="" style="font-weight: bold;"></span></str><str ong="">



But anyway, have you ever wondered about that 'thing' (for lack of a
better word, (damn I'm zooted)) that can experience both of our
realities at the same time? Like for instance, I'm looking at my
computer screen right now, and you're looking at yours. But what is
that 'thing' that can experience both our realities at the same time?
What is that thing that can see through my eyes and your eyes at the
same time? If you understand what I'm talking about here then you're
one step closer to truth.</str><str ong="" style="font-weight: bold;">

</span>
</str>

I had a conversation with that "thing" once. Its scary and wonderfull.
I don't think it's what I'd call GOD or a creator though if thats
what your getting at. It did however offer to show me GOD. I declined.

I almost wonder if our dreams, fears, and thoughts are on some
level connected. This connection may then seem to have its
own will and being the collective sum of humanity give rise to its
seeing and being seen at the same time.

[uNi151]

I had a conversation with that "thing" once. Its scary and wonderfull.
I don't think it's what I'd call GOD or a creator though if thats
what your getting at.</span>



No, not at all. You had a conversation with what? What did you
talk about and what did its voice sound like? I think you've
misunderstood my position.



It did however offer to show me GOD. I declined.



</span></span>I believe we are God, namely, the Universe. Universe =
God, the Universe is all there is. There is only God, you're it. There
is no 'you' or 'me' or 'I' there's just God.



</span></span>
I almost wonder if our dreams, fears, and thoughts are on some
level connected. This connection may then seem to have its
own will and being the collective sum of humanity give rise to its
seeing and being seen at the same time.</span>


Everything is connected in some way or another. I was simply trying to
imagine what it would be like to be that 'thing' that can experience
the infinite amount of realities at the same time.



For instance we have Subject A and subject B. Subject A and B are
in the same room sitting on a couch. They are watching tv. Subject A
has the experience of seeing the tv in his mind from the left side of
the couch. Subject B also has the same experience of seeing the tv in
his mind, but he's on the right side of the couch. But what is that
'thing' that can experience 'seeing the tv' via subject A's mind and
subject B's mind at the same time? Think about it.



Edited by: uNi151

[phenethylamine]

I highly suggest everyone to read "Be Here Now" by Dr. Richard Alpert (Baba Ram Dass) he was a friend of timothy leary.Alpert knows. Also, try meditating on a moderate to high dose of lsd, you may see the light. Though this method of understanding is not pure, it is a good start. You cannot hear answers unless you are quiet. That is, the nervous system is completely void of any activity. Clear your mind, empty your thoughts, and enlightenment can be yours.

[uqlfy]

Originally Posted by uNi151

I had a conversation with that "thing" once. Its scary and wonderfull.
I don't think it's what I'd call GOD or a creator though if thats
what your getting at.</span>



No, not at all. You had a conversation with what? What did you
talk about and what did its voice sound like? I think you've
misunderstood my position.

</span></span>

</span></span>
I almost wonder if our dreams, fears, and thoughts are on some
level connected. This connection may then seem to have its
own will and being the collective sum of humanity give rise to its
seeing and being seen at the same time.</span>


Everything is connected in some way or another. I was simply trying to
imagine what it would be like to be that 'thing' that can experience
the infinite amount of realities at the same time.



For instance we have Subject A and subject B. Subject A and B are
in the same room sitting on a couch. They are watching tv. Subject A
has the experience of seeing the tv in his mind from the left side of
the couch. Subject B also has the same experience of seeing the tv in
his mind, but he's on the right side of the couch. But what is that
'thing' that can experience 'seeing the tv' via subject A's mind and
subject B's mind at the same time? Think about it.

I think</span> I do understand your
position. My personal belief is that there are many
"things" that exist ,much like rats between walls, that do experience
just that "level" of reality. I was only making note of a personal
experience I have had, not really agreeing or disagreing with you. I
try not to engage in a Im right Your wrong type of dialogue about these
kind of things.



Maybe you could clarify your opinion of you think this thing is?

[uNi151]

I think I do understand your position. My personal belief is that there are many "things" that exist ,much like rats between walls, that do experience just that "level" of reality. I was only making note of a personal experience I have had, not really agreeing or disagreing with you. I try not to engage in a Im right Your wrong type of dialogue about these kind of things.


I was confused by the comment, "I had a conversation with that "thing" once. Its scary and wonderfull" in your previous post which led me to believe that youhad misunderstood my reasoning. Further, what was said had nothing to do with who wasright or who was wrong. It wasa matter of comprehension. Forgive me if I've come off as an overbarring bully, it truly was not my intention.

Maybe you could clarify your opinion of you think this thing is?


The Universe.


The point of my post was to help other's gain a new perspective on life, existence, and death. The point was to express a simple truth which has been overlooked,misconstrued, and neglected. The obvious truth thatmany have some how forgotten. Some are blind to the fact that weare the Universe exploring ITSELF and not someone in the Universe who's trapped inside a bag of skin. We are the whole system, but we each experienceour realities as being separate whichpropogates the illusion of separation. Einstein dubs it "a delusion of consciousness" There isn't anything that can be identified as YOU, I, WE, (subjective,imaginary terms) there exists only the UNIVERSE.


And once one understands this obvious truth,they will then know thatthey shine the sun, grow the trees, and the apples. In the same exact way that you grew your eyes, nose, and tongue, which can see, smell, and taste the apple. The illusion is that 'you' are not the 'apple', 'sun', or 'trees' which is an erroneous assumption. Claiming that you are not the things 'outside' of your body is akin to saying your brain is not part of your nervous system.


Everything is intimately bound to this system we call the Universe. We are a part of this system not apart. It would be even more correct to say that you are this system. And onceone realizes thisthey will finally realize that they don't die. They will realize that they have existed for an extremelylong time throughvarious forms. Enjoy the trip, we'll be doing this-and have been doing this - forever.Edited by: uNi151

[uqlfy]

No uNi151, you didnt come across as a bully or anything.

Perhaps your concept of GOD=UNIVERSE was just what it wanted to
show me. I only know that it was more than I could handle at the time.
Try ayahuasca sometime if havent it will definitly give you something
to think about.

I really like the way you explain how everything is ONE. I share
a similiar view myself. Now that we are on the same page let me ask
you, given that we(humans) make such distinctions as YOU I THEY etc. in
order to function day to day do you think that after death we in some
way continue to make such distinctions? Or do we gain a new way of
viewing the universe while losing the concepts of YOU I THEY and also
TIME?

[uNi151]

given that we(humans) make such distinctions as YOU I THEY etc. in order to function day to day do you think that after death we in some way continue to make such distinctions? the universe while losing the concepts of YOU I THEY and also TIME?



I don't believe in an after life.


One more time. Let's say there exists only your hand. There is nothing outside of your hand. Let's take asingle cell in your hand.Can we single out that one little cell as being a separate entity from your hand? Would it be more correct to assume that the cell is part of the whole hand and not a separate entity? Even further, we could say that the cellsare the whole hand because without the cells there could be no hand. A single cell dies. Does the wholehanddie?


Now replace hand with Universe and human with cell. Oversimplified but I hope you get the point.








Edited by: uNi151

[uqlfy]

All the cells together make a whole person. One cell dies the
person lives on. All people together make the community. One person
dies the community lives on. etc etc.

One cell dies, the rest of the person recycles what it can of it
and the rest passes out of the body. The rest is then used in some way
by another system. A person dies, the body is interred. Through
decomposition it is,loosely speaking, recycled by another
system.

So really nothing is lost simply changed.



To oversimplify my point, death is a change not a loss. Therefore I dont end I continue. </span>

Angels strumming silver harps on fluffy white clouds, no I dont think
that at all. Will there still be a ME that knows ME yes I do believe
something survives in some way.

Mankind is more than the sum of its parts IMO.

[uNi151]

Yes! Exactly my point.

[sauvage]

Originally Posted by uqlfy

*
Mankind is more than the sum of its parts IMO.

So, when all the parts have decomposed and you are left with the extra bit that came from there being more than the sum of the parts, would we call this extra bit a soul?

[uqlfy]

Well maybe. Depends on what is left exactly. Which Im not gonna know for certain for a long time hopefully.



What would you call a soul? Is it able to exist without a
physical presence? Share some of your views on this topic if you would.

[icecrew]

What you guys are trying to explain or understand really cant be
comprehended by our minds like stated prevously by other people..when a
person dies he or she doesnt know what happeneds because none of us can
die and live to talk about the experience, maybe by reading some things
that happened with people that had a heart attack and live to talk
about it might give us alittle theory of the darkness or lightness that
happened afterwords but it surely wont explain the whole theory between
life and death. I have alittle story to tell you guys I know this old
couple that has been married for a long time, they were working in the
garden and the husband had a heart attack and literally died i mean
lost pulse no heart beat no nothin the person is dead...so the wife
starts going crazy creaming and yelling so loud that her husband came
back to life like some people say, did she scare the soul back into the
dead? well...who knows thats how the couple explained it because thats
truly what happened and who can prove it otherwise? might be VERY
possible thats how the whole thing went down



So my point is what you guys are saying makes alotta sense and to some
people it will make more sense and others might believe in other things
like reincornation soo0o0oo lets stick to our opinions and not go over
what we can understand...death is a mystery dont try too hard thinking
about what cannot be thought about at the time..thank you BTW im just a
19 year old kid so excuse me for whatever grammar mistakes i might have
considering English is my 2nd language eventho my 1st language I can
spell that good eather lol

[daeron]

bump

[HanSolo]

My two cents is this...don't act like you know what happens when death
knocks on the door. Answering this question with anything more
than faith is impossible. Faith meaning what you believe (whether
it be in nothing after death, re incarnation, becoming God, going to
heaven or hell etc). Your answers can have factual evidence (law
of thermodynamics, body decomposition etc), but that in no way answers
the question. Your answer goes like this, "because of such and
such, I think such and such". Answering otherwise is just
nonsense. Here are some points I think are valid though in the
discussion.



Science is only a description of what we CAN observe about existence in
one way or another. The question though is about what we can't
know/observe at this time. We don't even know a little about it,
we know NOTHING about it. We can observe people dying, but not
dying iteslf. Therefore science can influence what you believe in
different ways...but it IS NOT a viewpoint itself, nor does science
hold a viepoint.



Viewpoints from different camps will always seem bizarre to eachother
about death. They always will be. All are only based on
some sort of personal proof. Just read all of the above examples
of proofs given, scientific, logical, gut feeling, or
mystical/spiritual.



Viewpoints about death don't always exist due to fear of death, or on
the flip side, to being "realistic". The realist viewpoint will
only be had by those that are correct about it in the end.



To those that would say I believe in a God/afterlife, because I fear
death..I laugh and say hogwash. Sure it is comforting, but I
would bet that you are not Rambo Realist either. Would you say
that you don't fear death/the unknown, because you know there is
nothing else after life? I think people choose the religious
afterlife view whether Zoarastrian, Christian, Pagan, Jewish, Muslim or
Buddhist...because it MAKES SENSE to them. It comforts because it
makes sense to them, not the other way around----making sense because
it comforts. Don't put the cart before the horse. Each view
of death, more importantly the reasons...are worthy of pondering and
thinking about. People can be mistaken yes...but may not be very
far from the truth, whatever it turns out to be.



I am too tired to present my view of death/afterlife . I will save it for tomorrow. It's swell hearing everyone's thoughts on the topic. Keep it coming.

[HanSolo]

WHOA...didn't realize the thread was a month old. woopsie.

[DancingDinner]

The Death of Life,

Is but a Reasonable Price,

For a Gift Which Breeds Rise,

To Freedoms Created in One's Individual Mind.



"Death," in My Own Perception,

Represents the Freeing of Our Mind,

From The Vessel (Our Body) That Firmly Binds...

Us to the Laws of Space and Time Combined...



The Mind Then Proceeds into an Alternate State of Being...

And through Pure Conciousness It Will Continue Forever Freely Dreaming.

-Me



Wrote that at work on a slow night when i was tweakin, kinda weird, but
its the only poem i ever wrote so i think its pretty cool... doesn't
make much sense unless u read slow and really think deeply about every
line



</span>

[DancingDinner]

</span>
Edited by: DancingDinner

[HanSolo]

Very, well...poetic. I agree about the laws of space and time
vanishing, and about the freedom of the soul, (as you put it,
mind). Also I dig the part of death being a price to be paid for
something better.



Only thing I wonder is...that if there is an "existing system" if you
will, for the order of our universe now, as well as the transition and
destination (freedom of the soul), it would seem that there is a good
possibility that there may be a personal/all encompasing source that IS
conscious and higher than just conscious...that has chosen this path
for our existance to follow (i.e. life with physical laws and lessons
to be learned--&gt;death/transition--&gt;freedom of
consciousness/soul---&gt;whatever may be next) I don't think that
if there was any sort of pattern or route for a consciousness/soul to
go through in existance, that it happened by mistake. Maybe genes
mutate by mistake...but the "soul trip" if you will...I don't think
would come from a "spiritual goo", or "spiritual randomness" of
sorts. The evolution of the soul would have to have been put in
place by a conciousness/spirit that encompasses all.



Why you say??? Well because you can argue that evolution is blind
in the physical realm yes...However if we are talking about an
afterlife that is closer to "real" existance (real meaning closer to
actual conciousness/life without boundary, not just a slave in a cave),
that would mean that there are indeed stages that go closer to the
actual. If there is an actual spiritual conciousness/life that is
all encompassing, it would be God. But I don't think we ARE Gods
in the sense that I am in that state now, or will ever be the source of
it all, (how could i be the source, I do many stupid things all the
time, and am writing pondering my existance now so I think that no, we
aren't God in the sense of eternal source). BUT I do think that
we can at some point in our existance become a part of this source, of
God, fully endowed with spiritual freedom/consciousness.

[jatzstoned]

Originally Posted by Hyperreal

Death is just another trip. Everyone here has experienced not just the standard 'human condition', but a variety of other metaphysical states. Death is one more.


The soul can't be destroyed because it's immaterial. Only physical things can be destroyed.

the soul is a form of ectoplasmic energy, e nergy can only be transferred or converted, thats y i dont believe a soul can ever be truly destroyed

[mizthang]

you dont die mentally only phyisically you'r just given a new shell