what happens when we die?

[billyloner]

personally, i believe that consciousness is some sort of freak accident, when we die that is it, we are over. i find it incredibly hard to consider though unless im stoned.

[geordie]

ive always that once were dead, were dead...thats it...game over.

[Hyperreal]

Death is just another trip. Everyone here has experienced not just the standard 'human condition', but a variety of other metaphysical states. Death is one more.


The soul can't be destroyed because it's immaterial. Only physical things can be destroyed.


Has anyone ever considered the eschatological implications of Huxley's Doors of Perception theory. If it is true that the central nervous system serves to limit the information that comes to the consciousness, then when we die, we become a god, a supersoul, a Mind-at-Large, connected with everything, equivalent to everything.

[Iggypoop]

Thats pretty deep i have to say, but i just can't help but think that some people HAVE to believe that there is somewhere else after leaving this mortal coilsimplybecause they are so scared of death, i dont fancy dying right now, but i believe that death is the end.I also think atrip is a chemical imbalance in the brain which helps to join the concious and unconcious. The human mind is a very complex thing and we only seem to use what like 10% of it? i'd love a cat scan while tripping just to see if it makes those other bits of the brain light up. lol i'm just thinking out loud here, hey i guess we'll just never know! Edited by: iggypoop2

[billyloner]

im actually quite looking forward to dying. if that doesnt sound too weird. even though i think its the end of everything, i am still really curious as to what it feel like. it must feel like something right? for an instant, even if you have no awareness of it beyond that instant.

[daeron]

death is the final trip.Just before you die your brain will release a ton of neurotransmitters and start the "shutdown" of secundar body functions,as a result there will be a severe time dilatation effect,you will see/hear/feela lot intense shit ,and after a while your "conscious state" will be "turned off"-the brains last atempt to preserve bodys vital functions;your kidneys,liver and at last heart/respiratory system will stop;brain will work for a few more mins and youll finally die.after that youll start to rott,nothing more.. a lot of people cant acceptthe factthatwe are so transient,so theytalk about afterlife and shit,hell/heaven but i guess its more of a subconsious fear of death


the trip of dying will probably make the time dilatation so intense,you will think that that moment lasts forever,since there is no more memory after that moment,so in a sence i think huxley was kinda right,you become god,you go to hell/heaven,you sail the universe or whatever it is you trip...as i said you will notbe awarewhen it allfinally ends,so philosophically speaking from your,subjective point of view you will continue to exist forever,in a trip of your own making...


sorry if there are typo`s

[{V}00]

Yeah, maybe... depending on how you died... if it were of natural causes, I could percieve this "breakdown" as possible.


I don't want to speculate, or fear, as fear is a kind of speculation in itself, no?


I am secretly hoping for reincarnation though-Oh no,the secret is nowout, woops. Gary Zukov is an interesting writer, delving into reincarnation, and much more.

[Muirner]

idk man i had a crazy experience when i stopped breathing infront of my
mom for like 5 seconds, i saw a light, and some blue dots going twards
it also with me, but there was no one else, kinda like a tunnel with
lil blue specks going twords it, no fear no nervousness just
anxiousness... then i started to breath again



Muirner

[turfshark_40]

I think that death is it, once you die you're done, nothing happens after. I don't see why we would be given some sort of special afterlife based on our deeds in this world, without ever knowing for sure. I believe that the afterlife is something made up by people who are scared of death, who want and need something after life is over, to make the pain of life on earth more bearable. If you believe that no matter what, there is something better for you once you die, life seems easier to take.

[egoDEATH]

Life is a never-ending quest for knowledge. Knowledge feeds the mind - expanding the consciousness. When you die, your physical beingis permanentlytrapped (killingthe ego)in this world (which is eventually recycled back into Mother Earth). But, if youmanaged to create a strong enough conscious while you were alive you will befree from the pain...free to travel the cosmos and joinwhat Carl Jung has dubbed the "collective consciousness" (oras I like to think of it, the "collective subconscious consciousness" - meaning we are aware of what we've become, yet we stilldream).Becoming one Mind. A mind powerful enough to create its own realities.... dreams within dreams...a never-ending slumber, thus becoming eternal.


I do not believe in the existence of Gods/Goddesses. A God/Goddess wants to be worshipped and therefore has a strong ego. A "true" God/Goddesscan never have an ego....and would never consider itself a God/Goddess.

[uNi151]

Death being the end of life is an illusion. The reality of the matter
is that life and death go hand in hand. It is a cycle that has been
going on for eons.



If we can come to realize that we are</span> the Universe and not</span> someone in</span> the Universe. We will find that we really</span> do not die.



We come up with the illusion that when we die there will be nothing
left. Let's examine the situation. What is nothing? Well, nothing isn't
anything. It doesn't exist. So how can there be nothing? There can't!



*If you're thinking no duh right now, then this means you havn't grasped the concept*



Someone once asked me, "why is there something rather than nothing". I explained that his question was nonsensical. There is no</span> such thing</span> as nothing. Nothing doesn't exist.



There is only</span> something</span>.
This something has always existed and will always exist (in some form
or another). This something is you, or rather, you are this something
that has existed forever (in some form or another).



Is there still life after a limited part</span>
of this Universe (something) dies? Be it a human, giraffe, fish or a
red blood cell? Yes. It is a continous process. It goes on and on and
on and on ....



You live. You die. You live. You die. You've been doing this
forever. This is how the Universe functions. You were born once
you can or even better, will be born again. And again. And again.



*Note: I'm not claiming that you will be the same person you are now nor am I implying reincarnation.



So you see, if one can understand that you - which is another illusion, you</span> do not exist, only the Universe exists - are</span> the Universe and not</span> something in</span>
the Universe, then life becomes perfectly clear. It makes sense. Death
is a natural process, but it is definitely not the end of life. Nor is
it the beginning.



The answer is so simple, yet increasingly difficult when trying to
explain it to others. We have been so culturally mind fucked
(especially if you live in Western society) into thinking that we are
not what is out there. We somehow think we are an individual separated
from the 'outside' world. This is an illusion.



You are the Universe exploring itself. Fundamentaly, you are God exploring Hisself.



I'll leave you with a lil' quote from Alan Watts:



To know that you are God is another way of saying that you feel completely with this universe. You feel profoundly rooted in it and connected with it. You feel, in other words, that the whole energy,
which expresses itself in the galaxies, is intimate. It is not
something to which you are a stranger, but it is that with which you,
whatever that is, are intimately bound up. That in your
seeing your hearing your talking your thinking your moving, you express
that which it is that moves the sun and other stars.




<blockquote>And if you don't know that,

if you don't feel that,

well naturally you feel alien,

you feel a stranger in the world.
</blockquote>




And if you feel a stranger you feel hostile, and
therefore you start to bulldoze things about, to beat it up and to try
to make the world submit to your will, and you become a real troublemaker.












Edited by: uNi151

[RoboCop]

I believe the after life is the same as pre life. It will be exactly like when we were never born. Life is just a one time miracle of the universe, due to trillions of years of evolution. Once we are done with life, we will be exactly where we were before and there will be no going back to life. It will be others turn to experience it.

[daeron]

Originally Posted by uNi151

You live. You die. You live. You die. You've been doing this forever. This is how the Universe functions.

I dont want to sound like a scientific pointdexterlike wiseass,but this can be interpreted only through the first priniple of thermodynamics:


mass can be "destroyed"(maybe the better word is degraded),but energy can neither be created nor destroyed so in a sence we are eternal,there is a possibility that some part of us,some electron or ion,was or in time will bea part of some star or even some other life form.


I think we all should realize that we are still very far from understanding the mysteries of our brain,or even how to use it properly.I think the following analogy is quite suitable for describing the human being-brain relation:


Imagine a neanderthalliving peacefully in his cave.Then some one gives him a supercomputer.So,what will he do with it?Calculate the trajectories of the celestial objects?Predict the next ice age?Surf for porn?-NO,most likely he will crack open a coconut with it.The same thing is with us and our brains,we still dont know how to use it,and we are still trying to crack open metaphysical(and some times physical) coconuts.

[Hyperreal]

Thermodynamics doesn't apply to the soul, because it is neither mass nor energy.


Parmenides said thatnothing can be destroyed because that would involveit passing from being into non-being, and (as uNi151 said) non-being is impossible.


The soul/ mind/ consciousness/ atman/ ghost in the machine/ awareness is a non-physical entity, so trying to destroy it would be like trying to destroy the number 6 - it can't be done.

[billyloner]

wow, some really good theories, will take quite awhile to consider them all properly!

Originally Posted by uNi151

*Note: I'm not claiming that you will be the same person you are now nor am I implying reincarnation.

so what will happen to the person you are now? i know my body is one with the universe, nothing more than the dirt beneath my feet or the air i breath, however im not so sure about my mind, my soul, whatever you want to call it. im yet to hear a good explanation of what the soul is, what the mind is. i certainly dont think that consciousness is identical in nature to hydrogen atoms, for example.

[lolomgwtfbbq]

I think that what everyone believes happens is what
happens to them. It's somewhat far-fetched and for it to work, all of
our conventional laws of physics and stuff would be proven incorrect,
but maybe it's possible for all of those things to exist at once.</font>

[VincentVan]

<DIV id=0></DIV>




<LABEL id=HbSession SessionId="3610419330" SessionId="3499614173">There is no doubt that the molecules of your decomposing body will blend into other compounds. No doubt that, according to the principles of conservation of the energy, the heat generated by these chemical processes will slightly alter their immediate physical sourroundings, possibly acting as catalizator for a new reaction. But so what? When we talk about ourselves we mean more than the mass of atoms and molecules that you can actually weight on a scale: We mean our consciousness. Our self consciousness. And that will be gone for good.</LABEL>


<LABEL SessionId="3499614173">The main postulate of the second principle of thermodinamics, that I have seen misplaced and misquoted ,a few postings back, is that enthropy is bound to increase. Exponentially. No matter what.</LABEL>


<LABEL SessionId="3499614173">Chaos is our destiny ;and it´s nearing, fast</LABEL>


<LABEL SessionId="3499614173">Yes, Chaos is coming. And I can´t wait.</LABEL>


<LABEL SessionId="3499614173">"...and the second angel poured his bowl into the sea, and it became like the blood of a dead man." (The Apocalypse). </LABEL>


<LABEL SessionId="3499614173"> VV</LABEL>


<LABEL SessionId="3499614173"></LABEL>P.S.


Let me suggest a beautiful book pertaining some aspects of this discussion: "The buried soul. How humans invented death". By Timothy Taylor. (HarperCollins Ltd.)


Edited by: VincentVan

[daeron]

Guys it seems to me that Im doomed to be the realistic,cynic bastard here....if i sound sometimes like a fascist science worshipping SOB that doesnt mean that i dont respect your opinions,i just get easily carried away...ok hereit goes:

Originally Posted by Hyperreal

Thermodynamics doesn't apply to the soul, because it is neither mass nor energy...The soul... is a non-physical entity, so trying to destroy it would be like trying to destroy the number 6 - it can't be done.

You are right,thermodynamics doesnt apply to the soul..but not because of its strucuture(or as you claim the lack of);but because it isnt a real entity,it is an imaginary concept,a tool.Let me clarify:The number 6,as you conveniently have stated cant be created nor destroyed.Thats because it is a imaginary tool,alone it has no meaning at all,it is undefined;but if you say 6 g of coke,6 philosophers,or -6degC -&gt;suddenly it has a meaning,of quantity,of 6 funny dressed old men,of lack of heat...Another example is the imaginary number i(sqrt of -1).They exist not in reality but in our minds,because we are the first beings on earth that have the ability of abstract thinking...and the urge to explain things.


The same goes for the concept of the soul.Our brain is a mysterious device;and inside it there are countless esotheric processes going on.And a lot of them define our personality,our behaviour.So like a caveman witha computer who has the urge to explain what he is,we say: all those fealings,my ego,this impression i have about the outside,the physical against the feeling of the things inside,of me..we call that soul.Soul is a noun without meaning,it is a tool.A tool to describe "all of that inside,out of the physical world".Alone it shouldnt have a meaning,its real meaning,abstract or not should start when you first think of "my soul",of that thatyou feel but cant explain,ofthat that is me.


And here is were the problem starts,most peopleget this too literaly.Theybreathe life into a tool.An abstract and fairly complicatedtool,but still a tool.A tool that is used to describe what kind of alchemy goes on in your brain,what makes you-you.Untill we have more understanding of the things that go on in our brains we will continue to call all this "soul",but when the brain stops you stop,your soul doesnt continue to exist..


...still maybe there is a way you can continue to exist after you die,if you could somehow manage to copy all the things that of we consist,all the little processes,all the thoughts,all the memoriesonto/into some medium.....william gibson talked about this


you of all people should understand this,we all know how the slightest chemical imbalances causedifferent feelings,different patterns of thought,open different doors of perception,momentarily changing our"souls".

[P!MPJU!C3]

Judgement day.

U will want 2 be standing on the side of Christs right hand. U do not want to stand on the left side. The people on the left go 2 hell.

U can also pass in 2 limbo. Here u will burn untill ur sins
have been punished enough. After that u will be going in 2 heaven.

P!MPJU!C3

[daeron]

Originally Posted by VincentVan

<LABEL SessionId="3499614173">Chaos is our destiny ;and it´s nearing, fast</LABEL>


<LABEL SessionId="3499614173">Yes, Chaos is coming. And I can´t wait.</LABEL>


<LABEL SessionId="3499614173">"...and the second angel poured his bowl into the sea, and it became like the blood of a dead man." (The Apocalypse).</LABEL>

The chem.eng. in me just had to comment on this:


enthropy decribes the amount of disorder.Things go from orderly,high energy level states to the low levelenergy states,more chaotic states.This is inevitable,in order to go the other way youll have to bring in additional energy,which cant be created from nothing,etc..


Yes,Chaos is our destiny,but it isnt the all that grandiose as we imagine it,there are no fiery skiesor rivers of blood;it is a slow,inevitable decay torwards the low energy states...it should be quite pleasant, a kind of a relaxed universe


..P!MPJU!C3 dont even get me started on that apocalypse shit.jugement day?you judge your self every day,every second..through every your decision...sorry but for me religion is an another rusty outdated,obsolete tool...Edited by: daeron

[VincentVan]

<LABEL id=HbSession SessionId="1315254403">Nobody talked of fiery skies and rivers of blood, whatever that may mean. </LABEL>


<LABEL SessionId="1315254403">I´m talking about the infinite , timeless, cold , quiteness of the Universe. The all embracing nothingness into wich all wordly sensations and actions will finally and definitely dissolve. The eternal, calm,indifferent, flow of empty eons.</LABEL>


<LABEL SessionId="1315254403">As in the beginning, so in the end. As in heaven soonto earth. As in the immense so in the infinitesimal. As for you so is for me.</LABEL>

[daeron]

there are two theories about this-one you just described:universe will continue to expand untill all has dissolved into the elemental particles(whatever they might be),time will stop..and apparently it will be hot as hell(enthropy-&gt;infinity;temp-&gt;really hot infinity).


the other one claims that in one moment the universe will stop expanding and will start to compress,untill it reaches singularity,one point infinitely small that has infinitely large mass..and then the next big bang will occurand it all starts over,but this time its all different the universe isnt 3d,its 2d or 1d or 6583853093530538 dimensional,etc


of course when the spiritual people heard these two theories(which may not be true at all),they had reached their own(IMHO kind ignorant)conclusions:there is either hell/heaven or there is a cycle of reincarnation...oh,well some people cant be helped


as for the fiery skies,and all..i was just being colorful


hey,i even got a quote for you:
"what lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."-Ralph W.EmersonEdited by: daeron

[VincentVan]

<LABEL id=HbSession SessionId="4184948610">When finally a unified theory will make possible to apply quantum mechanics to a relativistic universe, I am sure it will become evident how singularities are as vast as the universe (universes probably ) in wich they are included. And time just a function of the temporary state of the matter. </LABEL>


<LABEL SessionId="4184948610">You´ll love a book by Julian Barbour :"The end of time" (Orion Books Ldt.) It starts from Dirac`s , Shroedinger´s and Heisenberg´s quantistic theories to arrive to to an equation of time that satisfies relativistic principles too. Dazzling.</LABEL>


<LABEL SessionId="4184948610"> " ... I have seen things you humans will never be able to imagine."</LABEL>


<LABEL SessionId="4184948610"> (Philip K. Dick)</LABEL>


<LABEL SessionId="4184948610"></LABEL>

[egoDEATH]

Life-After-Death theories have always intrigued me. Since the Dawn of Man, we have been trying to figure out Why? It's human nature to want to know and understand everything. The Unknown keeps us guessing....it gives us a reason to live. I think the most important thing to remember is tohave a very open mind about everything. Don't restrict your mind's potential by letting religion, the government, or your ego overcome you. Think freely. The best things in life happen when your mind is open and willing to accept all the dreams and nightmares that may come.

[uNi151]

so what will happen to the person you are now? </span>




The person you are now will no longer be. ---&gt;Insert name
here&lt;--- time will be up. But what I'm trying to get people to
realize is that there is something behind the name. That something is
me, that something is you. I call it God. God doesn't die.


<>i know my body is one with the
universe, nothing more than the dirt beneath my feet or the air i
breath, however im not so sure about my mind, my soul, whatever you
want to call it. </span></>im yet to hear a good explanation of what the soul is, what the mind
is. i certainly dont think that consciousness is identical in nature to
hydrogen atoms, for example.</span><></span>



Honestly, I don't believe I have a 'soul'. A 'spirit' inside a body. I
believe that I am the Universe. I am you, just as much as you are me.



Terms such as "I", "you", "me" are subjective concepts we use to
describe what is 'out there'. But objectively there is nothing out
there that can be defined as "I", "you", or "me".



Let me try to clarify: Let's take for instance the United States of
America. When you look on a map, you can see the border lines of each
state. Do these border lines actually exist, or are they subjective and
imaginary? These border lines which imply 'separate' states do not
actually exist. In the same exact way, the illusionary terms which
imply separation, such as "I", "you", and "me" are just as subjective
and imaginary as the border lines of the United States.



The self is an illusion. But we must speak in terms of the illusion to
understand who or what we are talking about. The problem arises when we </span>actually
believe we are the I. When we actually believe the border lines which
bring up the illusion of separation are objective fact. If you can come
to terms with what I'm saying then you will know that you are the great
I AM. And you </span>(which doesn't exist) do not die.

</>

<>On another note there is much debate in regards to the subject of
consciousness (aka what some may refer to as soul). The question is
whether consciousness is contingent upon the functioning of the brain
or if consciousness exists independently of the brain. In other words
does consciousness exist only in the brain or does it exist inside and
outside of us (much like air or space)? Does the brain somehow trap
consciousness when we are born and give it the illusion of time etc...



To support the latter are a few NDE accounts, especially the ones who
have actually died. They claim they were still conscious, and then go
on to tell their story. I particularly find the Atheists' testimonials
interesting to say the least. Here.



Personally I don't know if we will expand back into Universal
consciousness (if there is such a thing). I remain neutral on the
subject. I'll wait it out.<img> But one thing i'm sure of, God (which is who we really are) doesn't die.

</>

If you're looking for more on the subject of consciousness you should check this out. It's a very interesting read.