Drug info - LSD25 & The Clear Light: What, Where, What?

[Panthers007]

It doesn't seem to be specific with ALL people who have taken high-doses of LSD25. Bongo & Co. all had the same experience of White-Light at 3,000mcg. Yet Bongo is aware of another case off a MUCH higher dose with drastically different effects:

A young kid - 14 years old - accidentally ingested 6.75mg (6,750mcg) of very pure LSD25. This found him aware of being a garden-slug crawling across the ground, leaving a trail of his entrails behind his non-humanoid form. The result was several days in a hospital being shot-up with Thorazine before being released to his parents. He was no worse, or better, from this experience. He reported no "White-Light" from this faux pas.

So does White-Light depend on a set & setting? Could be. Bongo never found out what set & setting was involved in the devolution to a garden-slug.

[Lobsang]

Originally Posted by Panthers007

It doesn't seem to be specific with ALL people who have taken high-doses of LSD25. Bongo & Co. all had the same experience of White-Light at 3,000mcg. Yet Bongo is aware of another case off a MUCH higher dose with drastically different effects:

A young kid - 14 years old - accidentally ingested 6.75mg (6,750mcg) of very pure LSD25. This found him aware of being a garden-slug crawling across the ground, leaving a trail of his entrails behind his non-humanoid form. The result was several days in a hospital being shot-up with Thorazine before being released to his parents. He was no worse, or better, from this experience. He reported no "White-Light" from this faux pas.

So does White-Light depend on a set & setting? Could be. Bongo never found out what set & setting was involved in the devolution to a garden-slug.

Well seeing white light is pretty cool. But devolving to a garden slug is awesome. Two people devolving to garden slugs and mateing is even better.

Reputation Comments on this post:

lol

[podge]

Originally Posted by Panthers007

So does White-Light depend on a set & setting? Could be.

The white light is more likely at high doses but there is no way to guarantee it even in the right setting, it may or may not happen.

[Doughreguard]

SWIM thought he was at least mildly experienced with LSD after doing it 30 or more times but, after reading about this White Light, SWIM must reconsider. The White Light seems something like Nirvana, something that everyone should hope to achieve, something SWIM hopes to achieve one day.

[Lobsang]

SWIMMERS:

With all of this let us not forget that there are many benefits to LSD. And many different levels. One level cannot be the "cure all" for SWIMMERS mind. While "neuro-atomic fusion" and "clear light" are special things at those levels certain therapeutic effects of LSD are not possible. Also the simple enjoyment of contemplating the bark of a tree or water in a brook is not either. So it's all good

[Panthers007]

It might be more useful if we developed a language that all can understand regards "White-Light." Neuro-atomic fusion rather sounds like someone was rolled into a Cat-Scan and the drunken tech set the machine on Grilled-Cheese and went off to get lunch. I feel it rather defeats the purpose of enlightenment if reading Tim Leary becomes a prerequisite to finding whatever they are when all things cease to exist except...The Hollandaise-Sauce of the Void.

[Lobsang]

Originally Posted by Panthers007

It might be more useful if we developed a language that all can understand regards "White-Light." Neuro-atomic fusion rather sounds like someone was rolled into a Cat-Scan and the drunken tech set the machine on Grilled-Cheese and went off to get lunch. I feel it rather defeats the purpose of enlightenment if reading Tim Leary becomes a prerequisite to finding whatever they are when all things cease to exist except...The Hollandaise-Sauce of the Void.

Yeah...Before I pressed the submit button I kinda thought that in a way. But I would respectfully submit that the term "white light", "clear light" or what ever is also precarious. These experiences are personal things and perhaps all reduction to operational terms nonsensical. It is impossible to have a syntax for such things. The description of such things is perhaps the arena of poets and artists.

Neuro-atomic fusion rather sounds like someone was rolled into a Cat-Scan and the drunken tech set the machine on Grilled-Cheese and went off to get lunch.

Lol....When you are funny. You ARE funny

[Songcycle67]

Originally Posted by Panthers007

It might be more useful if we developed a language that all can understand regards "White-Light." Neuro-atomic fusion rather sounds like someone was rolled into a Cat-Scan and the drunken tech set the machine on Grilled-Cheese and went off to get lunch. I feel it rather defeats the purpose of enlightenment if reading Tim Leary becomes a prerequisite to finding whatever they are when all things cease to exist except...The Hollandaise-Sauce of the Void.

SWIM says:

Neuro-atomic confusion, more like. This to me sounds like typical pseudo-mystical acid head mumbo jumbo. The kind of attention to "ego-loss" that could get one into mental trouble. I agree with Panthers if I assume correctly that he is saying that this sort of thing shouldn't be the goal of the psychedelic experience. Destroying the ego is such a dangerous game to play. Just read John Lennon's 1971 interview with Rolling Stone concerning psychedelics and ego loss. After reading Leary's The Psychedelic Experience and dropping acid a few hundred times he had no clue who the hell he was and he had turned himself into a defenseless ball of nothing.

This kind of stuff to me is the reason for a lot of the so-called "acid casualties." If it were intended for man to be a free-flowing set of atoms blowing in the wind, we would look more like...i dunno...a tree? For SWIM the purpose of these substances has nothing whatsoever to do with destroying the ego, but rather calming it...showing it new sides to existence and opening it up. If one must expand one's mind, one must do it in a pragmatic way. A way in which one can still function in the human form. We have concepts of things like space, time, ideas, and language for a reason, I think. Destroying the ego does not lend itself to a productive existence.

As a wise man once said: trip to live, don't live to trip.

Lots of interesting takes on this, though. SWIM doesn't necessarily consider his white light experience "spiritual" or "mystical" in a way that relates to any certain deity or ideology. But there is definitely a "cosmic mysticism" that is perceived. For him it was about being one with the universe, instead of the creator of the universe...if that makes any sense.

[Panthers007]

Bongo & Co. found no particular "Mystical" connections with this experience. It was what wasn't - and is what is. Perhaps some who undergo this place of nothingness need, or feel a need, to find a roadmap that touches upon it. Religious tracts are a famous one. But Bongo's crew needed no roadmap to describe it. They knew damned well what they had experienced. Aside from some simple comparative notes, just a grin and a giggle sufficed. Well...there was...

The encounter with the director of the school 2 days later where one of the party told the guy: "I Love you!" And the director asked if he was "bent out of shape." Shit-eating grins shot back & forth. More giggles. And off to class...Didn't need no 8-armed ladies dancing to understand that. Just a knowing laugh.

I guess if one is caught up in seeking solace from seeing the entire world end and be re-born, one might go hunting for a language to describe this event. The crew in question didn't question. It was. The knowledge tucked under the metaphysical belt. And onwards to the next station.

[Lobsang]

Well all arguements aside SWIM believes LSD can really help people fix themselves and have a reason for living. SWIM also believes that it would benefit mankind tremendously. That's all. Everything else is just talk.

[sylenth]

swim has also experienced the white light. a swimmer asked how much it takes 2 achieve this? for swim he took 3 caps @ once obviously not knowing the amount of micro grams in those 3. the white light was bright & did hurt swims eyes eye lids open & shut the light was still there, it first appears in fractals then it becomes overwhelming like wax melting down from the universe in to your brains minds consciousness. swim has a interesting belief on this white light. swim wonders if this white light is the same as the light explained by people who have had near death experiences. such as people who dont use substances so are you almost dying @ that point?

swim also made a spiritual connection with swims father who ironically died from a drug overdose. swim had only met his father twice in swims life b4 he died. swim felt this was a way 4 the entity 2 communicate & help comfort as swim's experience turned into a bad trip due to environment feeling trapped indoors & the wrong company becoming a burden. this caused anxiety for swim & experienced chest pains like an animal in swims chest which felt extremely painful like a heart attack, swim really thought he was gonna die. really terrible.

it was then that swim had a mystical experience & believe devine intervention took place 2 help swim. swim felt the connection of a past dad, uncle & friend but it felt like the connection was in a order that they died & who could help with the understanding of the delicate situation, but this also could be the mind going in to another state from the shock of the event at the time. they were in a row from most strong 'father' to next strong 'uncle' then friend who did'nt have much help, just felt he was there in the back of the row.

which leaves swims belief of, if 'god' brings u 2 it, 'god' the consciouness & 'spirit guides' will bring u through it. this was about 3 years ago.

swim 'coincidentally' there's alot of these in swims life... is going 2 take the above mentioned dose again @ the end of this month, this time in nature & only 1 other person. swim feels ready again. the anxiety pains by the way have always been there on & off ever since swims bad experience. not as sore, but there. so b carefull. swims partner also felt extreme pains due to swims anxiety pains that night & it was head pains. also very sore like dying. if anyone's gonna try this, try not speak or think. will keep posted on swims end of the month experience.

[delysid]

I've read a few times that somewhere around the 1000 ug range, you are "saturated", and the intensity of the effects does not increase anymore, just lengthens. I'd like to know from experienced trippers, how realistic this is...Have you had a 'saturation' experience?

Swim recently had his first extremely strong lsd experience, on 4 hits of white blotter. He felt like he was flying through outer space at times, and the world around him was constantly and frantically moving and changing. He forgot what he was doing frequently, and was even on the verge of forgetting his name at the peak (his closest experience to real psychedelic ego-loss). The visuals got so intense, that he could hardly see at the peak of the effect, as everything in his peripheral vision flickered like florescent white light. The body high is what one might call "extremely intense", and this was the first time he truly experienced blending of all the senses.
How close do you thing swim was to 'saturation'? How much more intense can an acid trip get?

[sylenth]

thanx 4 this. swim is gonna be doing this for the 2nd time round @ the end of this month. swim now has more info on how to utilise the trip as best possible. less unknowing swim will report back here from the clarification provided.

[Songcycle67]

In SWIM's experience there is a plateau that he always reaches that he can't get past. Basically the clear white light experienced, which is outlined in another thread. Once everything around you is reduced to slight traces of geometry, mirrors and burning white light; what else is there?

SWIM has friends who have "finger-dipped"--basically sticking your thumb into pure crystal acid and pressing it firmly to the tongue. He says the trip hit them instantaneously, most of them puking within the first ten minutes due to the intensity of visuals/bodily sensations/disorientation. Completely uncommunicable for at least the first 4-5 hours. Apparently most people don't have a very good recollection of the first 8 or so hours of their fingerdips, just scattered memories so absurd it would be fruitless to describe. Most reported a trip duration of at least 2 days or more and the descriptions that SWIM has heard of outer world transformation sound like nothing he's ever experienced on any dose level--it seems like with all high level doses the comedown is heavily focused on distorting external reality, while the peak is basically just white white and more white; the brain burning forward into chaos.

SWIM would assume that there is a point that you reach where the visual field becomes less of a focus (i mean you're already blinded by this white light by the first ten minutes--visuals are pretty much not a possibility until 8 or so hours later), and the physical body receives more attention. During SWIM's largest doses the most overwhelming parts were definitely physical. It seems to SWIM that whereas lower doses seem to dissolve the ego, higher doses, having destroyed any notion of ego within the first 30 minutes or so, tend to actually dissolve the physical self. That's SWIM's opinion from what he has experienced.

[tip]

The light in the head?

The light could possibly be caused by the pineal gland. Meditation and LSD have similar effects on the pineal gland and brain.

Extracts from (Lanis_Strayreality/thirdtyepinealgland.htm)

The pineal gland secretes melatonin, during times of relaxation and visualization.
As we are created by electromagnetic energy - and react to EM energy stimuli around us - so does the pineal gland. When activated, the pineal gland becomes the line of communication, with the higher planes. The crown chakra, reaches down, until its vortex touches the pineal gland. Paraná, or pure energy, is received through this energy center in the head. With Practice, the vibration level of the astral body is raised, allowing it, to separate from the physical. To activate the 'third eye' and perceive higher dimensions, the pineal gland and the pituitary body, must vibrate in unison, which is achieved through meditation and / or relaxation. When a correct relationship is established, between personality, operating through the pituitary body, and the soul, operating through the pineal gland, a magnetic field is created. The negative and positive forces interact and become strong enough, to create the ‘Light in the head. ‘With this ‘light in the head’ activated, astral projectors can withdraw themselves, from the body, carrying the light with them. Astral Travel, and other occult abilities, are closely associated with the development of the 'light in the head'. After physical relaxation, concentration upon the pineal gland, is achieved, by staring at a point in the middle of the forehead. Without straining the muscles of the eye, this will activate the pineal gland and the 'third eye'. Beginning with the withdrawal of the senses and the physical consciousness, the consciousness is centered in the region of the pineal gland. The perceptive faculty and the point of realization, are centralized in the area between the middle of the forehead and the pineal gland. The trick is to visualize, very intently, the subtle body... escaping through the trap door of the brain. A "popping sound" may occur at the time separation of the astral body, in the area of the pineal gland. Visualization exercises, are the first step, in directing the energies in our inner systems, to activate the 'third eye'. The magnetic field is created around the pineal gland, by focusing the mind on the midway point, between the pineal gland and the pituitary body. The creative imagination visualizes something, and the thought energy of the mind gives life and direction to this form.

LSD possibly causes this light effect through a similar mechanism.

[Jatelka]

threads merged

[Songcycle67]

It's interesting that a lot of people link this to "religious experiences" because

1) As a person who studied religion at college and has been fascinated with mysticism and things of that nature SWIM has only once had a quasi-religious experience on LSD, involving a loosely-depicted image of "god's hand" lifting him out of the puddles of creation (long story) and it only lasted maybe 5 minutes. It was very powerful, but very vague. He was on around 250 ug, no white light dose for sure.

2) The first thing that happened to SWIM during his first white light dose, and he remembers this because he thought he was going to meet Christ in person on a dose of approx. 2,000+ug, was that all concepts of religion--all of its figureheads and dogma were not only laughable, but they were seen by him as poor poor representations of the true divinity that really does exist all around us. There is nothing Jesus or Buddha or Lennon ever said that came close to that insurmountable truth of BEING IT.


After dosing, however, he finds that reading religious texts helps to put things into words and incorporate things from the experience into ones life which would otherwise be impossible to do, as Panthers pointed out. Unfortunately the world has about the same tolerance for religious mysticism as it has for psychedelia.

[sylenth]

songcycle67. smurf agrees to ur post, do'nt think there's much more than that after the white light... that's why smurf only goes for this white light experience for the 2nd time now in 10 years. it's very intense & alot can't be described & in my opinion can be scary for someone if something pops up while in this state. one has to be very carefull when taking these amounts as words & thoughts can have huge impacts if over analysed in unpredictable situations 'best advice is not to speak' whilst on this level of consciosness & experiencing the ego death. a regular trip is far more enjoyable frequently...

[sylenth]

lobsang, tip & songcycle67 have described the understandings the best as smurf can describe & make of it. so now smurf is wondering if the white light is only like a once off. or perhaps the lsd smurf aquired this round was'nt as strong as the first time smurf had the white light experience. there was no melting into the universe, burning light, heavy morphing or heavy shapeshifting this time.

it will just cost too much to attempt to experience this again 4 a while, cos the price of lsd has doubled since the last time the smurfs achieved the white light. oh well, it was still a great strong trip all round. the 3rd was very open & the universal consciouness was very strong & happening if smurfs had to describe the events through out the trip.

sylenth added 11 Minutes and 49 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by Heretic.Ape.

Monkey says it reminds him of Sat-Chit-Ananda (being-consciousness-bliss) or Atmic Light described in Vedantic philosophy.
The pure light of consciousness laid bare and the all encompassing ecstasy involving perfect satisfaction, full body/mind orgasm, and the exuberant pixie sense that you know something beyond words and mind--a gnosis reserved for gods.
Indescribable beauty and a feeling that life itself was only to lead to this point. Yum.

yeah this is so true! smurf had this saying going through out the strong white light experience. the saying was 'the moment is now!'

full mind orgasm is a great way of describing the way the mind feels at the time. a very high state of consciouness. like knowing any thing that is questionable. 'tapping in to some higher force' & at least time was very non existent for a 'while' it seemed.

[Frond]

Interesting. SWIM has never had an experience that equates to this "white light" phenomenon, but SWIM has entered a space that was so thoroughly de-conceptualized that any possible attempt at description would prove completely and utterly futile. SWIM has christened this place "The Void," and to enter it, one must have the meaning component of every concept irrevocably stripped away. SWIM felt that he was somehow going through the motions of thinking, without the actual content of thinking. Naturally, "self" wasn't even a remotely remembered concept; to quote a famous report on the Lycaeum, SWIM's ego was obliterated like a nuclear bomb would obliterate a mouse. To say that this experience was "bliss" or "terror" is thoroughly inapplicable since "bliss" somehow describes a concept, a state, and to enter into The Void, you cannot be in any state. You can't even simply "be" since "being" by itself denominates a state. It's simply a nothingness so thorough, that perhaps if you take away the concept of total nothingness from the state of total nothingness, The Void is what you have left.

But then again, maybe not.

Remarkably, SWIM was still aware through all of this. Despite its total de-conceptualization, the space of The Void was still full of events and occurrences. However, at this time the nature of these occurrences is totally inexplicable. There certainly was closed-eye hallucination the likes of which SWIM has never before experienced. At some point, probably right after his exit from The Void, SWIM experienced the sensation of becoming his visuals - i.e. his sense of self-image was tied to his closed-eye visuals. During an experience with 2CB, SWIM once mentioned that the world was a series of geometric abstractions, and that his mind was reduced to meaningless fractals. Now, that was just cool one-linery to spout off while he was smashed, but on this subsequent experience (with what SWIM thinks was LSD but is not sure), it came true. He was the fractals.

SWIM is still not sure how to describe this experience since to put a descriptive on it would be to add a concept to something whose nature is complete de-conceptualization. But, perhaps something like this:

"Do you remember how you felt in 1859? Now, add visuals."

Then again, that's not exactly it, either.

I'm still trying to get information out of SWIM on this, and I intend to write a full and lengthy report in a separate thread, since I am not sure of what SWIM actually took (and how much of it), and would like some input on the possibilities. But, alas, SWIM is far too gone right now to get any kind of meaningful information out of.

[Panthers007]

In the White Light, one is aware of the White Light. One has been distilled down to Consciousness. Nothing other than Consciousness. What you are describing is very interesting. The rest comes later - if at all. There is no time.

Keep reflecting. What we are doing here is drawing a road-map.The list of exits has hardly even begun. Thanks for writing.

[cra$h]

I see where you're comming from, about how chemicals can't change perception, since what they induce can be hollow. People can drop acid just looking for a trippy good waste of time, then (like it should be used) there are those who drop as mind expansion. The hallucinations is just about how it's interpreted. You can reach the stage of white light, and come back either thinking you've figgured out the universe, or just shrug it off saying, damn that was cool, or you could find it too intense and close up your mind. Like I said, it's all about interpretation. Hallucenogens are not as definite as a lock and key, but more of a catalyst to open one's mind to bigger things. Kind of like the doors of perception theory. Of course it can be achived through a sober mind, but through drugs like lsd, Psilocybin, dmt, and even marijuana (although not nearly to the same extent) speed up the process from a lifetime to mear hours. My perception of enlightenment is when you're surrounded by things you only think you understand, but once enlightend, there's a far more extent to your knowlage on what you've experienced already. Enlightenment can be from learning to how circuit works, to how the universe works. And obviously the harder the question, the more work it's going to take.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Good post, some very decent points
	good true post.