5-MeO an aphrodisiac?

[Swimmortal]

Just a quick question: could this article be referring to 5-MeO? Or something closely related chemically?

[RaverHippie]

It sounds like they're mentioning bufotenine but that is a schedule 1 drug, and poisonous, so it's a mystery.

[Panthers007]

I can't untangle that one either. Maybe you could ask the FDA, which banned same, what they found. I can't for the life in me think of how anyone could construe either bufotenine, or 5 Meo-n,n -DMT, as an aphrodisiac. Nope.

[Samadhi]

a sonic kick to the...boner?
no way 5-meo-DMT will ever be an aphrodisiac. This one is beyond me.

[69Ron]

I've seen reports of bufotenine and Yopo having aphrodisiac effects. A guy I talked with uses bufotenine nightly specifically for that purpose. He smokes 15 mg of freebase bufotenine. That's a very large dose. The aphrodisiac effects kick in shortly after the intense visuals peak (and no, this is NOT a typo, freebase bufotenine is a very intensely visual hallucinogen). It has effects on blood circulation that differ from most other hallucinogens. For example, DMT, LSD, etc., would cause ED, but some trip reports show that bufotenine has the opposite effect.

A large amount of most hallucinogens will make people look pale and cause ED from lack of peripheral blood circulation, but large amounts of Yopo (or bufotenine) usually make people look more red by increasing peripheral blood circulation. If too much is used it's said to cause a purplish face from too much peripheral blood circulation.

Erowid reports of flushing with Yopo (no reports of paleness):
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=53077
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=8406
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=25664

Based on such reports it is entirely possible that bufotenine is an aphrodisiac at the right dose.

[RaverHippie]

Originally Posted by 69Ron

I've seen reports of bufotenine and Yopo having aphrodisiac effects. A guy I talked with uses bufotenine nightly specifically for that purpose. He smokes 15 mg of freebase bufotenine. That's a very large dose. The aphrodisiac effects kick in shortly after the intense visuals peak (and no, this is NOT a typo, freebase bufotenine is a very intensely visual hallucinogen). It has effects on blood circulation that differ from most other hallucinogens. For example, DMT, LSD, etc., would cause ED, but some trip reports show that bufotenine has the opposite effect.

A large amount of most hallucinogens will make people look pale and cause ED from lack of peripheral blood circulation, but large amounts of Yopo (or bufotenine) usually make people look more red by increasing peripheral blood circulation. If too much is used it's said to cause a purplish face from too much peripheral blood circulation. So it is entirely possible that bufotenine is an aphrodisiac at high doses.

Could you scrounge more reports from your friend. From what I knew my impressions of bufotenine were that it wasn't definitively psychoactive in a general stance. bear in mind my knowledge barely extends further than the tihkal entry..

[69Ron]

I'll do even better. Read this report from Jonathan Ott stating that bufotenine is a powerful hallucinogen:

http://www.erowid.org/archive/sonoran_desert_toad/ott.htm

Take note of this single line:

Visionary effects of insufflated bufotenine were verified by one colleague well experienced with Anadenanthera snuff, those of vaporized bufotenine by several volunteers

Another quote from that work:

While bufotenine decidedly has the tryptamine signature, its psychoptic effects are unique and eminently distinguishable from those of DMT or 5-MeO-DMT. In the first place, some are evident only in low-light conditions, and might be missed in darkness, such as a shimmery "magical varnish" (to borrow Baudelaire's bon mot) over the world, which seems to breathe, accompanied as this is by susurrant and synaesthetic psithurism, and occasionally a sudden and dramatic dimming of the visual field, as though the starting of a heavy motor had dropped line-voltage and dimmed the lights. On the other hand, at the highest doses tested, there are swirling, colored patterns typical of tryptamines, tending toward the arabesque, whereas for me at very high doses of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT, geometric psychoptic patterns sometimes manifest. With bufotenine there is also an occasional and curious "strobe -effect" in low light, which I have never experienced with either of its visionary congeners.

Take a look at the bold portion. Ott is basically saying that bufotenine typically produces visual effects, but for him DMT and 5-MeO-DMT only do sometimes. If I understand correctly, he's saying it’s more visual than DMT and 5-MeO-DMT. I've seen several other on-line reports stating that bufotenine is the most visual hallucinogen there is. I don't know if that's true or not, but that's how some people see it. There aren't any reports of smoking freebase bufotenine that show it doesn't produce visual hallucinations by that route. The only reports of it being non-hallucinogenic are when its taken by injection.

Ott never tested it by injection, so maybe it's not hallucinogenic by that route. I don't know. I do think Ott knows what he's talking about. TIHKAL is pretty useless when it comes to bufotenine. It doesn't have any tests of smoked freebase bufotenine, only tests by injection which doesn't seem to work well. I know several people personally who claim it is very visual when smoked or snorted. I have yet to talk to anyone who's injected it, so maybe it IS hallucinogenic by injection and those few reports in TIHKAL are just plain inaccurate. It’s likely that most of those people involved in those tests were taking other drugs at the time which masked the effects. Those tests were mostly done on insane people and prisoners. Not the sort of people that I would trust to give accurate descriptions of anything. Ott did SELF TESTS and tests on volunteers interested in psychedelic research. That’s a group of people that I’m more likely to believe have a better understanding of what a hallucinogen is and how to detect its effects properly.

Think about it. Who would you believe more? A few prisoners and insane people injected with it telling you it isn’t hallucinogenic or Jonathan Ott and his group of psychedelic enthusiasts telling you it is hallucinogenic? Keep in mind that before Jonathan Ott tested it, he thought it wasn't hallucinogenic either, because he also read those reports of prisoners and insane people being injected with it.

The only reason Ott decided to test it was because the Vilca he tested previously was very hallucinogenic and when analyzed it was found to contain ONLY BUFOTENINE. So that prompted him to self test bufotenine. He found it WAS hallucinogenic. And so then he had several other people test it just to be sure. After they all agreed that bufotenine was hallucinogenic he had enough evidence to publish his report.


Now back to the original topic question

Originally Posted by Swimmortal

Just a quick question: could this article be referring to 5-MeO? Or something closely related chemically?

5-MeO-DMT causes ED in most people. Bufotenine might work as an aphrodisiac, but not in this case.

This article is referring to unrefined toad venom sold as an aphrodisiac. There is a little 5-MeO-DMT and bufotenine present but it’s the other very serious toxins present that caused the death. This type of toad venom is very poisonous when ingested orally, which is what they did. This product is not sold for ingestion. The bufalin, cinobufalin, and cinobufagin present are VERY POISONOUS. The small amounts of 5-MeO-DMT and bufotenine present did not cause the deaths.

Here's some info on it.

"Stone," "love stone," "black stone," and "rock hard" all refer to topical aphrodisiac preparations made from dried toad venom that contains bufalin, cinobufalin, cinobufagin, and other cardioactive steroids in the bufadienolide class that have a similar structure and action to digoxin.

This will give you an idea of how unrelated these compounds are. Here's a picture of bufalin, followed by bufotenine (5-HO-DMT), and finally methoxybufotenine (5-MeO-DMT). You can see that the hallucinogens bufotenine and methoxybufotenine are chemically almost identical, but bufalin looks completely different. Bufotoxins like bufalin are very dangerous to play around with.



Toad venom is a poor way to get 5-MeO-DMT. It has a lot of dangerous toxins present.

Virola contains about 0.05% 5-MeO-DMT and almost nothing else. No major toxins are present. Its a very clean source of 5-MeO-DMT.

Diplopterys cabrerana contains about 0.1% 5-MeO-DMT and is also much safer than toad venom, but it also contains a lot of DMT. So you’ll need to separate the 5-MeO-DMT from the DMT which is quite easy to do if purity isn’t totally essential.

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[Euphoric]

Makes you horny, makes you dead

May 29, 2008 04:30 AM

NEW YORK–Health officials are warning New Yorkers to stay away from an illegal aphrodisiac made from toad venom after the product apparently killed a man.

The city's poison control centre issued the warning after receiving a hospital report that a 35-year-old man who ingested the hard, brown substance died earlier this month.

The product is sold under names including Piedra, Love Stone, Jamaican Stone, Black Stone and Chinese Rock at sex shops and neighbourhood stores. It is banned by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

The victim, whose identity was not released, was admitted to the hospital complaining of chest and abdominal pain. He died two days later. Health officials said the hardened resin, made with venom from toads of the Bufo genus, contains chemicals that can disrupt heart rhythms.

The aphrodisiac was supposed to have been applied to the skin, not eaten, but authorities said even that use can be harmful.

http://www.thestar.com/article/432315

Euphoric added 6 Minutes and 1 Seconds later...

Any guesses on the pharmacology of this product or if it may have psychoactivity? Any SWIM's seen this in stores?

Euphoric added 4 Minutes and 54 Seconds later...

SWIM found a site claiming to sell Jamaican stone and the picture fit the description of this article, but the seller said it was made from tree sap.

[Lunar Loops]

Is this not bufotenine-containing toad venom? SWILL has heard reports that it is, but can not confirm with any degree of certainty.

[Euphoric]

Whoops, perhaps these threads should be merged:

5-MeO an aphrodisiac?

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Chinese Rock?Thats old New York street slang for highgrade heroin.Johnny Thunders and Dee Dee Ramone wrote a song about it even.Why does this stuff thats obviously trash get named after something so cool?

[Alfa]

Threads merged.

[Euphoric]

SWIM just dug this up from a vendor:

Chinese Erection Stone

This stone comes from China. We have no confirmed ingredients list or active alkaloids unfortunately. It does however work extremely well. It is used topically by moistening the fingers rubbing on the stone and then rubbing on the sides of the penis. Waiting 20 minutes and then washing off. Effects start after about 30-45 minutes lasting 3-4 hours.

Recent findings indicate the presence of bufotenin within this preperation. As this is not legal wihtin the United States, United Kingdom or New Zeland none will be shipped to these countries.

[69Ron]

Bufotenine is indeed an aphrodisiac according to SWIM. It has peripheral vasodilatation effects that are similar to Viagra.