USA - Pseudoephidrine purchase logs held or shared with other pharmacies?

[Spyder]

SwiS has done quite a bit of searching and cannot seem to find this info, although he is sure that it's out there....A little help would be really appreciated!!

Swim was recently told by a pharm.tech (at a large pharm. retailer) that the logs kept for pseudo purchases are only kept at the store and not sent in or compiled with anyone else?

The real question here is, IF someone went from pharm to pharm (of the same chain) and purchased pseudo, what really is the risk?

The pharm.tech told SwiS that the logs would be used in the case that someone was either busted (to gather additional evidence) or if someone was under surveilance already, otherwise, these purchases would probably go undetected.

SwiS would think that the stores that "scan" ID would have a centralized databank for this info, not at each individual store? And if it did, would it cross reference....

Obviously, SwiS realizes he should just buy slow and steady at the limit, but would like to get a feel for the risk involved with the above situation..

Thank you all...............S

[old hippie 56]

Swim has thought about this also. It ain't worth the risk to find out. Why risk your freedom just to buy a few extra boxes to test the system.
He went to wally world to buy his behind the counter cold meds, they noticed his address had changed from the last time he bought some. Thing about this was he bought the cold meds at a wally world hundreds of miles away. Think about it.

[Spyder]

Thanks for the input SiOldHippie!! , that really does make ya think.....On one occasion, SwiS bought about 3g and then another 3g an hour later from another store of the same chain (large chain)....Only thing, one store actually wrote the info in a book and set it behind the counter, and the other had SwiS scan his ID.....If he had to "scan" at the first store, he probably wouldn't have gone to the second.

It is this "scanning" that really troubles SwiS !! Once the data is digital, who knows....even if not now, it could be sent anywhere at any time. Now, purchases between different companies would be a different story (although SwiS really hates to mix/match stock, for extraction purposes)

Bottomline, siOldHip...is right it isn't worth the cost to find out....but swiS just can't help but think that this "system" is littered with problems of it's own.

Thanks again!!! S

[old hippie 56]

In Texas, the people in charge(DPS) of keeping up with these logs are complaining that they don't have the manpower to keep up. But, still, this swim will not test their incompetence.

[Spyder]

Point very well taken!!! Thanks...SwiS lives in the N-East (PA/MD/OH, depending on time of yr.)...Most don't have the overall problem as the west coast or TX area....

Is this DPS??? a state agency? What is there mission? Just wondering if they only monitor the logs? SwiS wonders who actually checks/moniters these logs in his area?

Anyway, bottomline is SwiOldHip is right, Unless someone had some crazy grand plan that required a ton of pills, just slowly buying at the limit seems to be the safest thing.

SwiS liked the comment "will not test their incompetence" because it is true...it only takes one little observation to bury someone. Anyway....Just curious, SwiS will have to research who tracks this in his area...Thanks again for the input!!!!!

[old hippie 56]

DPS=Dept. of Public Safety; state police, Rangers. The lawmen that really cause a person some trouble.

[Spyder]

ahhhhh...i.e.: Cordell Walker! bummer.

Actually, must be the same here, just some division of the State Police. SwiS will research a bit more, just out of curiosity, but SwiOldHip has pretty much settled SwiS's mind regarding smurfing......It seems as though if someone just buys on a regular basis, instead of a power shop before dreaming, the results will probably be about the same anyway. BTW: SwiS thinks that regardless of the per gram limits, just "Pharm. Shopping" in itself is defined as a crime (assuming proof of intent)

Tell SwiOld-Hippie THANKS ALOT! for the input......SwiS will post more if he learns any more details about this in his state......thanks, S

[Sitbcknchill]

I thought I read an article on here awhile back about some states wanting or already had moved to a centralized system. I'm not sure as my memory fails me quite frequently but I could swear I read it somewhere.

[beentheredonethatagain]

This is what I know on the subject from what NIK has told me.

The stores that write down the purchase in a log book , they simply have the information at the store and do not send it to the government.

Some stores have the customer slide their drivers licence in the credit card machine, and they are sharing the purchase among their own stores, but not with the other drug stores or government.

I hope this helps

[Spyder]

SwiS has recently seen one chain that some stores write it down, and others "scan". He is unsure whether the scaned stores share amongst their own stores.

Even if these stores do share amongst the others in their brand/chain, is anybody researching this data.....If so, SwiS assumes they would report problems???? If not the other prob. is that SwiS assumes this could be like a 'time bomb' sitting their waiting for someone to see a trend......then the knock at the door!

Continuing to wonder?.....S

[Paracelsus]

I know that Walgreens has centralized records of all prescriptions of a given customer, as a part of an automatized system to prevent drug interactions (I've been told this by two pharmacists, one technician, and have seen it with my own eyes). I don't know if this is true for non-prescription purchases or other chain pharmacies, but it is more than likely.

[English_T]

Just a thought - If one really wanted to test whether these logs are anything to worry about, get someone, a friend etc etc who is totally clean and who doesn't mind doing this 'test' to go and buy as many pills as possible and see if he/she gets any 'feedback' from it.

She can legitimately say that she has mega bad sinusitus or such like and having to go to so many stores pisses her off etc (if she was flagged). Its not a prescription medicine and as such could it be sold on legally on EBAY at an inflated price?,or are there special procedures for pse? Or is all this logging just a friendly agreement between store and the cops? IF so, you could sell on at twice the price or use for ones own 'sinus' problems . There's always tons of medication on EBAY etc.

Key to this is the person a) being headstrong if questioned and knowing her rights b) Her being totally clean and likely to remain so c) Her being willing to do the test (if you paid her for her 'work' by adding a $1 to each purchase, it could work out well for all concerned)

[old hippie 56]

Thats illegal also, LEO calls that "smurfing"
Pick up the following off the DEA site.


Pseudoephedrine and ephedrine, both List I chemicals, are highly coveted by drug traffickers who use them to manufacture methamphetamine, a Schedule II controlled substance, for the illicit market. The diversion of over-the-counter pseudoephedrine containing products is one of the major contributing factors to the methamphetamine situation in the United States. Inappropriate retail level purchases by individuals attempting to procure pseudoephedrine for the illicit manufacture of methamphetamine have been documented as a source of much of the pseudoephedrine found in clandestine methamphetamine laboratories. These purchases which are accomplished by methods such as "smurfing" and shelf sweeping violate Federal law and may expose the seller to criminal and civil penalties.

Pseudoephedrine and ephedrine, both List I chemicals, are highly coveted by drug traffickers who use them to manufacture methamphetamine, a Schedule II controlled substance, for the illicit market. The diversion of over-the-counter pseudoephedrine containing products is one of the major contributing factors to the methamphetamine situation in the United States. Inappropriate retail level purchases by individuals attempting to procure pseudoephedrine for the illicit manufacture of methamphetamine have been documented as a source of much of the pseudoephedrine found in clandestine methamphetamine laboratories. These purchases which are accomplished by methods such as "smurfing" and shelf sweeping violate Federal law and may expose the seller to criminal and civil penalties.

The Methamphetamine Anti-Proliferation Act (MAPA) limits the thresholds of pseudoephedrine drug products to 9 gram single transactions with the package size not to exceed 3 grams.

[beentheredonethatagain]

Originally Posted by old hippie 56

Thats illegal also, LEO calls that "smurfing"
Pick up the following off the DEA site.

These purchases which are accomplished by methods such as "smurfing" and shelf sweeping violate Federal law and may expose the seller to criminal and civil penalties..

this says the seller may be penalized

Originally Posted by old hippie 56

The Methamphetamine Anti-Proliferation Act (MAPA) limits the thresholds of pseudoephedrine drug products to 9 gram single transactions with the package size not to exceed 3 grams.

here where I live the limit is three grams per day with a total limit of nine grams per month. Something tells me that the information given is a lil flawed, I will do some checking


(here is the law in Iowa)

Licensed pharmacists may dispense, on a nonprescription basis, products containing ephedrine, pseudoephedrine, or phenylpropanolamine, as the sole ingredient or in combination with any other ingredient, pursuant to rules currently being developed by the Board. An individual may not purchase from a pharmacy more than 7500 mg. of these substances during a 30-day period.

Purchasers must be at least 18 years of age and must show a photo ID. Purchases must be logged. Pharmacies are not required to disclose the contents of a dispensing log to law enforcement officials unless the log is the subject of a court order or subpoena.

Larger amounts of pseudoephedrine may be dispensed by pharmacies for legitimate medical purposes pursuant to a prescription issued by an authorized prescriber.

Retail (non-pharmacy) outlets may sell only limited amounts of select pseudoephedrine products in controlled settings. Retailer sales are limited to one package of liquid or liquid-filled gel caps containing no more than 360 milligrams of pseudoephedrine to a single purchaser in a 24-hour period. Pharmacies may sell 3600 milligrams of pseudoephedrine to a single purchaser in a 24-hour period. No more than 7.5 grams of pseudoephedrine from a pharmacy or retailer, separately or collectively, may be sold to a single purchaser in a 30-day period. Retailers shall NOT stock or sell any non-liquid pseudoephedrine products or any products containing ephedrine or phenylpropanolamine.

Retailers must keep liquid and liquid-filled gel cap pseudoephedrine products behind a counter inaccessible to the public or in a locked case, shall require a government-issued photo ID, and shall maintain for 12 months a pseudoephedrine purchase log including the purchaser's name, address, and signature.

A pharmacy may elect to keep ALL pseudoephedrine products in the pharmacy and dispense the liquid or liquid-filled gel cap products in compliance with requirements and limitations for dispensing Schedule V pseudoephedrine products.

Additional information regarding the new amphetamine and methamphetamine precursor control law, including guidance for retailers, consumers, and law enforcement and including information regarding the applicability and enforceability of local or county ordinances now and after May 21, 2005 , is available on the Web site of the Iowa Office of Drug Control Policy at www.state.ia.us/odcp -- click on "Pseudoephedrine Control."