Drug info - Capsaicin or chili Induced highs.

[fnord]

What can be done to maximize the endorphan rush and minimize the pain? can an endorphan rush still be had if a pepper extract is swallowed in pill form?

Reputation Comments on this post:

Ridiculous dangerous idea!

[Coconut]

I don't think injecting capsicum is the wisest of ideas...

Veins may not be able to feel pain but once that gets to, say, the brain or the heart, I don't even want to think about what could happen.

[fnord]

@curious1 im thinking the same thing but at the same time i wonder that because we have a capsaicin receptor there may be another way to get that same rush and bypass the heat:

Wikipedia

The burning and painful sensations associated with capsaicin result from its chemical interaction with sensory neurons. Capsaicin, as a member of the vanilloid family, binds to a receptor called the vanilloid receptor subtype 1 (VR1). [16] First cloned in 1997, VR1 is an ion channel-type receptor. VR1, which can also be stimulated with heat and physical abrasion, permits cations to pass through the cell membrane and into the cell when activated. The resulting depolarization of the neuron stimulates it to signal the brain. By binding to the VR1 receptor, the capsaicin molecule produces the same sensation that excessive heat or abrasive damage would cause, explaining why the spiciness of capsaicin is described as a burning sensation.

Other alkaloids/chemicals can still be absorbed by swallowing so why not this one?

If anyone could track down any of these articals i would be most happy.

Capsaicin receptor in the pain pathway.
Jpn J Pharmacol. 2000 May;83(1):20-4. Review.
PMID: 10887936 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Delta 9-tetrahydrocannabinol and cannabinol activate capsaicin-sensitive sensory nerves via a CB1 and CB2 cannabinoid receptor-independent mechanism.
J Neurosci. 2002 Jun 1;22(11):4720-7.
PMID: 12040079 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Final report on the safety assessment of capsicum annuum extract, capsicum annuum fruit extract, capsicum annuum resin, capsicum annuum fruit powder, capsicum frutescens fruit, capsicum frutescens fruit extract, capsicum frutescens resin, and capsaicin.
Int J Toxicol. 2007;26 Suppl 1:3-106. Review.
PMID: 17365137 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Lessons from peppers and peppermint: the molecular logic of thermosensation.
Curr Opin Neurobiol. 2003 Aug;13(4):487-92. Review.
PMID: 12965298 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

@whomever threw me some negitive rep: i wouldent say i was sugggesting anything dangourus at all, only asking a question.
That is what a forum is for right?

[Shampoo]

Originally Posted by fnord

If anyone could track down any of these articals i would be most happy.

Delta 9-tetrahydrocannabinol and cannabinol activate capsaicin-sensitive sensory nerves via a CB1 and CB2 cannabinoid receptor-independent mechanism.
J Neurosci. 2002 Jun 1;22(11):4720-7.
PMID: 12040079 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

see here:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58376

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks +40

[ihavequestions]

SWIM takes cayenne pepper daily. he used to suffer from chronic bloody noses. ever since taking it his bloody noses are rare, he rarely bruises, and when he does bleed it coagulates very quickly. plus its good for so many other things but in particularly is great for the circulatory system.

but does cayyenne pepper (capsaicin) interact with any drugs legal, prescription, or illegal?

[curious1]

from what swim read the way Capsaicin works is it produces the pain. And the endorphins are rather a response to the pain not the capsaicin.

So trying to reduce the pain would probably be futile of one was looking for an endorphin rush.

EDIT:Pure Capsaicin is also dangerous and "severe overexposure can lead to death". quoted from a science lab safety data sheet

swim pure capsicum would be capsaicin which is why he used the later.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks for you info.

[Bajeda]

The switching between capsicum and capsaicin is a bit confusing and sort of unnecessary as capsicum is a genus and capsaicin is what I think we are really interested in with this thread.

If you guys could edit your posts to clarify it would read better, thanks.


As for the idea... I think I'd rather go out and eat a very spicy meal and enjoy the combined pleasure of taste and pain sensations at just the right amounts (appropriate level of spice may very, as you become desensitized to capsaicin over time).

[fnord]

Grandma is currently waiting on 5 grams of bhut jolokia extract and will be testing its effects when swallowed in pill forum. Would anyone care to speculate on if capsaicin will provide a sufficent endorphan rush without first activating the TRPV1 receptor by burning the piss out of grandmas mouth.IE: can teh endorphan rush be had independatly of the pain. i know capsaicin can be used topicaly to combat pain and is being looked at for a cure for post operative pain. Another interesting fact is that capsaicin dances with TRVP1 which is closely related to our canabinoid receptors.

Grandmas not fucking around with your avarage spicy pepper. This pepper is 20 times hotter then a jalapeno and that was before an extract was made out of it! HeHe this would be fun to bring to a chilli cook off!

SCOVILLE PRODUCT
16,000,000 Pure Capsaicin
1,001,304 Bhut Jolokia
577,000 Red Savina Habanero
100,000-450,000 Habanero, various
50,000-100,000 Thai, Chiletepin, Pepin
30,000-50,000 Tabasco; Cayenne
15,000-30,000 Chile De Arbol
5,000-15,000 Serrano
2,500-5,000 Jalapeno
1,000-1,500 Ancho; Pasilla
500-1,000 Anaheim
0-100 Bell; Pimento

This man is a fucking sadist!!!!
From wikipedia:

Possible drug abuse deterrent
Clifford Woolf, the Richard J. Kitz Professor of Anesthesia Research at Harvard Medical School, has suggested using capsaicin to deter abuse of certain extended-release drugs such as OxyContin and Ritalin.[15] When taken as prescribed, opioid prescription drugs such as OxyContin or stimulant drugs such as Adderall XR release their active chemical over time, but when crushed and snorted, taken as a suppository, chewed, or injected, the larger than normal dosage is absorbed all at once and a much stronger effect is produced that can be highly habit forming and dangerous due to the higher risk of overdose. Woolf has argued that adding capsaicin into the capsules would be a safe way to deter abuse. A person taking the capsule in the prescribed way (i.e., swallowing it whole) would suffer no ill effects from the additive. However, a person crushing it would expose the irritant. Anyone then swallowing it, snorting it, or injecting it would be exposed to the full power of the chemical. "Imagine snorting an extract of 50 jalapeño peppers and you get the idea," Woolf said in an interview with the Harvard University Gazette. As of 2006, Woolf's proposal is still in the preliminary stages of development and the additive has not yet entered the production stage.

[Bajeda]

Swiy actually got ghost pepper? Not just that, but extract? Bit extreme eh? I think its a tad bit more than 20x stronger than the average jalapeno, but I'm not sure on the numbers really.

I would look in to it some more first (consumption of pepper extracts). Wouldn't want swiy to get a stomach ulcer or other nasty effects from ODing on capsaicin!


I read about Dr. Woolf and his ideas before. Pretty nasty concept, but you have to admire the ingenuity of it! Would REALLY suck for the fans of rectal ingestion!

[dr_haldol]

I worked with pure capsaicin, or lets say: I tried. It's nearly impossible. Just like living in a pepper spray bottle.

Without a fumehood, gloves and safety googles you're going crazy. Even after working with it the air is contaminated quite a long time...

Too much capsaicine will do damage to your body. Here a little exzerpt from a book:
In small doses, Capsaicine increases secretion of HCl in stomach. Overdose: gastritis, damage to kidney and liver. If applied to mucosa, feeling of heating, burning and pain is generated. On a longer application, it will cause necrosis and ulcers.

As Paracelsus (the historical one ) already noted correctly: Too much isn't good for you.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks for the warning.

[0utrider]

well SWIM just knows of a friend that chugged a bottle of that stuff and they had to pump it out of his (severly burned) stomach.
strange, just like SWIY says, sind it just works on the nerves and doesnt actually cause damage itself. however, of course it causes endorphine & adrenaline, cut yourself, it works the same way. first it hurts, after some time SWIY wont feel the pain anymore. not only in that part of the body but also in other parts he will be less sensitive to pain

[wOrship]

I love the thinking behind this, but I fear there may be one small point that may possibly have been overlooked so far?

Has anyone else after a friday night out with the lads, felt a pang of hunger and found themselves in the local curry house? Of course having sufficiently lubricated themselves to over-ride their common-sense, a feeling of certain and undoubted immunity to the fieriest dish on menu may be present.

If so, they may have also noticed that provided the chosen gastronomic delight consumed with gusto the previous evening contained a sufficient quantity of it, Capsaicin has the very interesting ability to survive the human digestive system with its 'warming' properties pretty much completely intact...

I am sure you can see where this is going?

Anyones grandmother may well be able to sidestep the initial burn from consuming an insane extract of what is arguably the planets hottest pepper at point of entry by consuming it in pill form, but come next morning she may be contemplating the possibility of soothing her poor bottom with a lava enema.

I am very interested in the outcome of this experiment, and I certainly salute you sir, but may I suggest possibly thinking about keeping a pack of aloe vera wet wipes in the fridge?

Reputation Comments on this post:

He

[fnord]

Originally Posted by wOrship

I love the thinking behind this, but I fear there may be one small point that may possibly have been overlooked so far?

Has anyone else after a friday night out with the lads, felt a pang of hunger and found themselves in the local curry house? Of course having sufficiently lubricated themselves to over-ride their common-sense, a feeling of certain and undoubted immunity to the fieriest dish on menu may be present.

If so, they may have also noticed that provided the chosen gastronomic delight consumed with gusto the previous evening contained a sufficient quantity of it, Capsaicin has the very interesting ability to survive the human digestive system with its 'warming' properties pretty much completely intact...

I am sure you can see where this is going?

Anyones grandmother may well be able to sidestep the initial burn from consuming an insane extract of what is arguably the planets hottest pepper at point of entry by consuming it in pill form, but come next morning she may be contemplating the possibility of soothing her poor bottom with a lava enema.

I am very interested in the outcome of this experiment, and I certainly salute you sir, but may I suggest possibly thinking about keeping a pack of aloe vera wet wipes in the fridge?

Thanks i was trying not to think about that! now might have to forget about this project. No im just kidding but upon reconsideration this is probably overall a bad idea,while not deadly im sure i will wish it was after atempting this...

[0utrider]

I am sure you can see where this is going?

sure SWIM experiences that every other day, as he loves to eat hot since he was living on the west-coast and enjoyed mexian food. he puts chili in everything.. when other people state that its too much he barely tastes it..
but he got used to that, and its rarely been "too" bad..


btw: apparently Capsaicin (in chili plants) is supposed to be a mild antibiotic but also having properties of lowerin side-effects of asprine.. Thats what SWIM heard, no source about that, further info would be nice.

[kalininin]

a different approach would be to gradually build up the pepper dosage, over say 2 weeks. start with a relatively tiny amount the first days, check how bottom reacts.
build up amount if possible n start experiencing a slight overall buzz hopefully...
n buzz or no buzz, maybe megadosing could be possible quitte safely after an adjustment-cure such as this.

[0utrider]

really swım would not worry about your 'bottom' too much more about the stomach (as saıd above he knows a guys whose stomach had to be pumped emptz because of an overdose of chılı).. the burnıng rectal mıght not be comfortable, even hurt a lıttle, but that wıll be ıt, unless SWIY wıll straıght go to a lethal dosage (or close..) just carefully buıld your way up and get a tolerance also (feels lıke SWIM ıs talkıng about opaıtes here hıhı)

[kalininin]

only heard about that after a heart attack its unwise to keep taking it...

[RX420]

swim has a feeling swiys ass and stomach will be very sore. whether swiy weans up overtime or not. I mean. pill form or whole form, it will all be the same going out and digesting wont it?? ha since capsaicin is what brings on the burning sensation isn't it? Swim would be worried about having swiys ass in some pain. Swim wouldnt do it though... swim loves hot food. and the next morning is always a bit painful. ha

when swim worked in a restaurant and made salsas. swim would remember even an hour later and cleaning up , the eyes and throat of swim was still burning and irritated.

[curious1]

swim remebers chewing a habanero seeds and all for atleast 1/2 a minute then swallowing it.

He ended up throwing it up which hurt worse but after all that everything he drank tasted sweet and he felt so good! It was well worth it. Throwing it up bypassed the spicy back end but maybe a milk enema may help with the extra pain (jk)

[fnord]

Thank you curius1 for thinking ouside the box, maybe dosing and then vomiting is the key to avoiding the unplesent end of where i thought this idea was heading.

[Metomni]

SWIM has eaten many hobineros right off the plant, but has never gotten a "high" from it. They taste good and burn like hell, but SWIM doesn't really know what type of high SWIY is expecting.

What experience are you looking to gain from this?

[kalininin]

Originally Posted by fnord

Thank you curius1 for thinking ouside the box, maybe dosing and then vomiting is the key to avoiding the unplesent end of where i thought this idea was heading.

afraid the vomiting will be terrible too.....

kalininin added 421 Minutes and 1 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by Metomni

SWIM has eaten many hobineros right off the plant, but has never gotten a "high" from it. They taste good and burn like hell, but SWIM doesn't really know what type of high SWIY is expecting.

What experience are you looking to gain from this?

one would hope for a slight 'narcotic' [thats alcohol or opiate-like] high.
well not a slight one, but a massive oc....[when the ingestion method has been perfectioned] .
maybe swiy did experience slight highs when eating the peppers, but they mightn't been noticed. maybe one could learn to recognise the alteration n then zoom in on it....

[MountainDeW]

SWIM found capsaicin nasal spray. It works just like any other nasal spray and contains some other stuff but the key ingredient is capsaicin. Just a couple sprays and SWIM feels the burn, followed by the endorphin rush. This is a much better option than swallowing pepper pills. SWIM hasn't had any rear exit burners either. Extra hot salsa is a good way to experience the burn and it will taste great too. The combination of salsa and nasal spray might be the ultimate cap experience!

[kalininin]

Originally Posted by MountainDeW

SWIM found capsaicin nasal spray. It works just like any other nasal spray and contains some other stuff but the key ingredient is capsaicin. Just a couple sprays and SWIM feels the burn, followed by the endorphin rush. This is a much better option than swallowing pepper pills. SWIM hasn't had any rear exit burners either. Extra hot salsa is a good way to experience the burn and it will taste great too. The combination of salsa and nasal spray might be the ultimate cap experience!

buttah, this is meant to be recreational ? or medicinal somehow ?
howlong does the endorush last ?

[MountainDeW]

The nasal spray is for the treatment of sinus congestion/infection and cluster headaches. SWIM was interested in the pain relief aspect. This works by overstimulating the pain response and depleting substance P thus triggering the release of beta-endorphins. The cool part is that this spray sends capsaicin directly into the nasal passages where it reaches the brain directly. SWIM uses it purely for the rush, so in SWIM's case it is recreational. The rush usually persists for 15-20 minutes. The burn really isn't bad at all, unless you had a cut or something in your nose. Another cool thing I read was that the Incas or Mayas or one of those South American native groups, and their modern descendants, used and still use a ground chili pepper concoction for the treatment of various sinus problems. If you want to try it, try this "generic" search. "capsaicin nasal spray".

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Thanks for the info!